Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

I can help you with the second part. Here it is:

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[SUP][a][/SUP] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Condition: Walk according to the Spirit
Outcome: No condemnation
Condition: Walk according to the flesh
Outcome: Condemnation

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Way to much you in there, and not enough God.

A person who has faith in god does not draw back to perdition As paul said, They entrust God to the saving of the soul.

Maybe you do not understand what true faith is. That's all I can fathom.. God i snot like men, who fail us, cause us to lose faith because they are not trustworthy, God earned our faith and he is faithful.

When he says based on his sons work, If I entrust my eternity to him, he will save me, Give me eternal life. Seal me with the spirit unntil ressurection day, I will never hunger or thirst, never die, live forever, and be risen on the last day. That as long as he lives, I will live, He will never let me go and no one (even me) amm able to pluc e from his hands.

Well. if these things are not true, and can be taken away, Then God lied, and my faith is in vein, because I have NOTHING trustworthy to believe in.

so are you going to respond to romans 8 or continue to demand I am trying to hide?

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Already answered. and thoroughly refuted. I told you you should think twice about accusing me!

taken from here http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/149226-those-who-deny-sin-believer-135.html

eternally-gratefull said:

Well since a few people have mentioned it, And since, by the mere fact he made an appearance, it should be obvious to everyone that he has no intention of answering my question. And has thus lost all semblance of reliability in my view, I will show that I am not afraid to answer questions and answer.

As a few people have pretty much made clear. the question is prety much a non issue. Whether I could not post more words. or I use a different bible are all valid responses, and show.. the intent of the question is not a good one to begin with.

Now for the truth (thanks to Those who tried to help)

I grew up King Jimmy, In fact, I am sure I memorized this verse (the long version) when I was a kid in sunday school. My church was part of the King Jimmy Cult (yes I call it a cult) and I have been rescued from it, However, I still use my NKJV most of the time, But I teach out of NASB or ESV, because that is what most people in my church use (I am the only one who uses the king jimmy)

But as I tried to say earlier, it does not matter, and it is not what he tried to make it out to be.

My sig says, there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ That is true, Whether you use the King Jimmy or not. Those words are fact.

Now whether i posted the King Jimmy addition or not does not matter.

why?

1. It says there is not condemnation for those who are "IN CHRIST"

Not "as long as they" do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit,

Not "Because they", do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Bit it says

"who" do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Even if it is a part of scripture. It does not support that one can lose salvation. It would instead say a fact,

WHo (Those who are in Christ), do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

It is who they are. People who are in christ do not walk according to the flesh (the old way, before they came to God) they walk according to the spirit (as a new creature in christ)

Now. Again, This does not mean they are perfect. it does not mean they do not sin, It does not mean they will be super duper mature believers like Paul and Peter and John.

What is means is, they have true faith, This they will have true works.

which is what DC, Myself and so many others have been saying all along.

so again, In order to try to discredit me for doing something I did not even do, He just discredited himself..

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

Respect

A teacher who is teaching a pupil says words like
"wrong" "no" "slanderous"

When people use language like this they are polarising the discussion into an
us and them situation, and purposely attempting to take the higher ground and
being arrogant themselves, as if they hold the septre of truth.

Making definitive statement on ideas that are positions of faith or interpretation is miss-leading

If you ever go to college or university they will always preface a statement with the
assumptions that under-pins it with the references on who accepts this point of view.

If you meet someone who does not know of this reality, or balance, they are just falsely putting
emphasis where it is not deserved to try and force a conclusion by emotional presence.

It is how the religious often define their dogma without admitting it is a faith position.

It is especially annoying when the people doing this claim to not be religious, which again is
equally as naive as the statements themselves, lol.

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

If you have a saving faith in Jesus in your 20's and 30's - and then go through a life changing event in your 40's (say the death of a loved one). For some reason (unfairly) you blame God for this. You then reject God because you believe that he has aggrieved you by taking away a loved one. You then lose faith in God.

Now --- in all sincerity this person was loving and following God in his 20's and 30's. This person by all definitions according to the word of God was saved. He believed in Jesus, His Death and Resurrection, and called upon Him as Lord.

Now in his 40's he has rejected God. His faith is shipwrecked. He has an accident at the age of 50 and dies. Still in rebellion.

Let there be no confusion. He is not saved, although he once was.

He disqualified himself. Because the promises of God are to those who believe. The eternal security is to those who believe. He by his own actions stopped believing.

Hebrews 6v4-6 is proven true.
Hebrews 10v38 is proven true.
1 Timothy 1v19 is proven true
etc etc.

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

A failure of understanding for the ignorant.

I was unaware of this theological problem, but I also understand why in the KJV
Rom 8.1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus....
Rom 8.4
who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Now most people who read the translation chop the meaning of the passage and
fail to read the part in verse 4 saying you walk by the Spirit.

The passage is saying, under the law as sinners who sin we are condemned, because
we break the law.

In Christ through empowerment by the Holy Spirit and obedience to love working in
us walking according to the Spirit, we do not sin, so therefore are not under condemnation.

So it is not a free pass for believers no matter how they walk, but people who cannot read
or understand scripture continually say this.

So not surprisingly the translators to stop this kind of error added the description after verse
one to make the meaning clear.

Now no one here arguing faith and who can read and look honestly at passages should fall for
such a simple distortion of scripture but they do, which has been shown more than once, to
contributors.

The problem is they would rather believe their own theology than look at God and what He
is clearly declaring, loud and clear. Now I would not mind if this was a matter of interpretation
but this is not, the passage is clear in its meaning.

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Been here done that.

I was saved in my teens,, I became a prodigal son in my 30's,, I never denys or rejected God. or anything about my position or his requirement.

I never stopped being the son, And 5 years later when he called. I heard as all sheep do and followed.

You can not disqualify yourself because you cant qualify yourself.

figure that point out, and you have it.

Those passages are true, Just not the way you interpret them.

gb9 · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

what makes you think that he, myself , or others need your " help ". is anyone asking for your help?

most people who have this attitude think they have all the Biblical truths down pat. they want to lecture and condem, instead of having actual interaction.

gb9 · May 5, 2017

PeterJens said:

A failure of understanding for the ignorant.

I was unaware of this theological problem, but I also understand why in the KJV
Rom 8.1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus....
Rom 8.4
who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Now most people who read the translation chop the meaning of the passage and
fail to read the part in verse 4 saying you walk by the Spirit.

The passage is saying, under the law as sinners who sin we are condemned, because
we break the law.

In Christ through empowerment by the Holy Spirit and obedience to love working in
us walking according to the Spirit, we do not sin, so therefore are not under condemnation.

So it is not a free pass for believers no matter how they walk, but people who cannot read
or understand scripture continually say this.

So not surprisingly the translators to stop this kind of error added the description after verse
one to make the meaning clear.

Now no one here arguing faith and who can read and look honestly at passages should fall for
such a simple distortion of scripture but they do, which has been shown more than once, to
contributors.

The problem is they would rather believe their own theology than look at God and what He
is clearly declaring, loud and clear. Now I would not mind if this was a matter of interpretation
but this is not, the passage is clear in its meaning.

4th paragraph- there you have it sinless perfectionism.

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

1 Corinthians 9
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Paul had to exercise this, lest he become disqualified. You don't think it applies to you?

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

gb9 said:

I condemn no-one. I warn everyone.

I post scriptures. Take no offence

gb9 · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

you post scriptures, that taken alone, point to works- based salvation.

this is why we should use the whole council of God, not just pluck out verses that back up your ( wrong ) ideas.

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

gb9 said:

Fortunately you are mistaken in my opinion.
Paul is saying condemnation is there because of sin in our lives.
If we repent and resolve the sin, when and if it occurs, there is no condemnation, we
are clean, pure and Holy.

What you seem not able to accept is that anyone can ever be for any length of time clean
pure and holy.

Confirmation bias. We see what we want to see.
No one will read scripture and condemn themselves, it hurts. It is also costly and difficult.

I know because I have been there. I would read the passage about Lord Lord and put the people
I did not like on the bad side and me on the good side even if the descriptions did not fit.

It is hard to admit, but in our walk, many times we are wrong but find it hard to see it.
It is why it is crucial to walk with an open heart.

But I enjoy challenges, and being challenged because it causes me to grow and use the
time I have for the Lords work, Amen. God bless you gb9

Grace777x70 · May 5, 2017

Romans 8:1 is talking about an unbeliever who is not in Christ - they walk "according to the flesh". Believers walk "according to the spirit".

Romans 8:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Rom. 8:1 is talking about "positions" - one is "in Christ" and the other is not in Christ. Those that do not have Christ in them - are walking according to the flesh and they can't help it. Without understanding what happened to us in the new creation - Romans 8 - especially verse 1 will be a hazy quasi reality to us.

We believers don't have to "live according to the flesh anymore" - living by the flesh brings destruction to us.

( even if we do walk by the flesh - we still have no condemnation in our inner man that is in Christ joined as one spirit with the Lord which is what Rom. 8:1 is talking about. There is nowno condemnation to those that are "in Christ Jesus")

Those that say we lose our salvation "read" this to mean that we become "un-joined to the Lord" and that the Holy Spirit leaves us and we go to hell because of a work of the flesh even though Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be in us forever. John 14:16

Romans 8:12-13 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—

[SUP]13 [/SUP] for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

If you want to experience the inheritance that is ours in Christ while on this earth - then we need to learn to walk by the spirit.

We could be going to church for 70 years, pastor a church for 30 years, read the bible in Greek and Hebrew, pray 5 hours a day, witness to everything that moves - and still be walking according to the flesh.

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Dear brother, there are a lot of people who need help. I need help from the Lord and others
everyday of my life. I would much rather have too many people helping me, rather than
the apparent lack of people with love and care to offer even the simplest of answers to
a questioning faithful believer. God bless you.

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

gb9 said:

The verses I post speak plainly and clearly. They are in context. They are faith based, not works based. They are life. No salvation can be had apart from faith. Faith is not faith when accompanied by a lifestyle of disobedience.

You are looking with the eyes of your old man, and saying this is impossible. Well with God all things are possible. If you have faith the size of a mustard seed you can move mountains.

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

[video=youtube;NJpt1hSYf2o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJpt1hSYf2o&index=8&list=RDMoDMkyaimnE[/video]

Chris1975 · May 5, 2017

PeterJens said:

God bless you too brother. I have a scripture for you: Ezekiel 3 v4-9

PeterJens · May 5, 2017

You can not disqualify yourself because you cant qualify yourself.

This is an observation. I read a discussion which claimed we choose to follow
Christ and we are not chosen or elected because that would mean everything
is fatalistic as their argument went.

But here salvation is not a choice so you cannot loose it.

Either you choose the Lord ie an armenian type position, or you are elected.
So if you choose faith you can also choose to walk away.
When the argument is you can walk away you cannot then say you did not
choose to be saved so cannot give it up, because in ones theology one has
already denied this position.

This is what I would call compartmentalised theology, which is just inconsistent.
Theology only works when it is consistent.

Now I know I choose a lot of things and also I know I am chosen. So I can choose
to walk away, which is why in any loving relationship both perspectives are true.

eternally-gratefull · May 5, 2017

Chris1975 said:

see, thats what you get when you mix sanctification with justification.

Paul talked about disqualified to teach. Not to be saved.

You are disqualified to be saved as you stand, so am I. Apart from Grace we are all disqualified. We have sinned and fall short. We still sin and fall short..

if you think you are qualified to enter heaven based on your righteousness, Your in for a rude awakening on judgment day.

Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...

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