Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul; and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.
Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
- Thread starter Katy-follower
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Believing includes obedience.
Or put another way:
Obedience without believing = no salvation
Believing without obedience = no salvation
Believing with obedience = salvation
If he shrinks back, or if he draws back.......means they were once there.....
But we (referring to the ones who overcome) hold the faith to the preserving of the soul.
So drawing back/shrinking back from the faith CANNOT preserve the soul.
Only if you keep the faith to the end.
And that's what this passage is saying.
It is not unreasonable to say drawing back from faith is rebellion.
Jesus brings us life, secures our eternity, provides us with all we need, gives us
love hope and the Holy Spirit, yet to spurn this is not sin or something the Lord
will take to heart?
What is man, if offered everything, though they treat it with disdain, should
be forgiven and dealt with as if they walked in it as if it is life.
Surely the sinners of the world would say this is bias and partiality, corruption
for the sake of a few over the majority and also impossible, for those that
draw back destroy the very life and work that saves them, that gives them
life.
It is like someone at 30,000 ft with no pressurised air supply putting on a
mask, and saying I am alive, then takes it off and expects to continue
living. They will die. The life we have in Christ is the same. Without it
our spirits perish. But maybe for many actually being in the faith or not
makes no difference at all. This summarises where their hearts are really.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
God does not teach conditional security. He did not say believe in me and I will give you conditional life. He said believe and I will give you eternal life.
The reason your security is conditional here on earth is because it id dependent on imperfect creatures, weather, animals, and nature..
But we are not talking about life here on earth, we are talking about salvation. based not in imperfect men, but on a perfect God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
If you are not saved, You can not work it out.
If you are saved, Then yes, Work it out.. Not to keep it, But to give it some life..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
[SUP]39 [/SUP] But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
Please stop taking scripture out of context to support your works based theology
John 3
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Condition: Believe in Him
Outcome: Eternal Life
The contract is still conditional.
No to him who shrinks back, or whose faith is shipwrecked ---- let's look at the same contract again
Condition: Believe in Him (Failed)
Outcome: No eternal life.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Or better yet
Obedience without believing = faith in self
Believing without obedience = no faith
Believing with obedience = Faith
We are saved by faith in God. Anything else is disobedience and unbelief, which will lead to hell
Those who have faith WILL obey..
You need to get the focus off obedience.. It is faith which saves us, NOT obedience.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Um again No.
Paul said WE are not of this. Paul could not know what himself or the rest of thepeople he called WE would do in the future.
So your whole premise is lacking, because it has no substance and assumes things which can not be true.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
No, It is not conditional.
If it was conditional based on something we could do. The cross is meaningless and Christ died in vein.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
[h=1]Revelation 3:21New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [SUP]21 [/SUP]To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Conditional.
If you don't overcome - what then?
Out of context? I see you still quoting only the first half of Romans 8v1 in your signature. You left out another condition to support your dogma.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
lol. I already posted a response to this slanderous claim.. You really want to go there one more time?
Think before you answer, Because I told you once before it is not what you think, I suggest you go find where I answered you, I wondered why you did not respond. Typical..
You believe. God doesn't believe for you. For if God believed for you, he would not tell you to believe. You are to have faith in Christ.
Yes this initial seed of faith comes from God (He chooses us, awakens us, gives us new birth). You respond to this in agreement. Now that you are born again.....believe. And continue to believe.
Now that you have been empowered by Grace through Faith. Cling to this faith. Do not sow to your flesh, which leads to corruption. Believe you are an overcomer. Believe you have victory over sin.
The above demonstrates how there should be agreement but you will not find
certain people want this at any price.
I fear for the soul of anyone who says this.
If God does teach conditional security, this is speaking on behalf of God
in an absolute way. It demonstrates no fear or respect, and no respect for
other believers who hold a different viewpoint.
It also drives the moral position of "you are lying" "you are evil" "I must defeat you"
on a subject that should be a secondary theological point, but here is being made
a salvation issue.
This way of talking and thinking is dangerous and often leads to conflict and sin.
So what logic drives spiritual priorities in the wrong way? The Holy Spirit?
And these believers end up accusing others of sin and evil where there is none,
which is the definition of the role of the accuser of the brethren.
Such debates with people like this are also pointless because there are so tied
in to their theology, to change it to them would be to go to hell and deny who
Jesus is.