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Not By Works
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Jesus is giving us a DESCRIPTION of believers. He who hears these sayings of mine and DOES them is descriptive of BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.
Amen...all self-works based belief systems are religions and they always get the gospel backwards and think they must do things to save themselves.
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Ariel82
Guest
Looking at the parable before gives insight:
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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What is God's will?
We see it below:
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1 John3
18Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
19By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
*****
What is God's will?
We see it below:
******
1 John3
18Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
19By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
Believers do the will of God. We agree. So what is to be of them who don't do the will of God? Jesus is also addressing the believers who believe it is optional to follow the Lord's commands. As per the below.
[h=1]Luke 6:46New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Build on the Rock[/h][SUP]46 [/SUP]“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?
And it goes on to the next verse as well:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
That is not descriptive of a genuine believer. In CONTEXT, Jesus is giving us a description of believers and unbelievers, not believers who DO what He says, and believers who do nothing, as you would suppose. In verse 43, we see good tree in contrast to bad tree. In verse 45, we see good man in contrast to evil man.
The people under the old covenant are said to be children of Hagar and the Earthly Jerusalem. They don't get to inherit eternal life. They have the ministry of condemnation given to Moses on the stone tablets.
I thought the people under the old covenant were the children of Sarah and that Hagar and Ishmael were sent away.
I thought the people under the old covenant were the children of Sarah and that Hagar and Ishmael were sent away.
Aren't love God and love thy neighbor, part of the ORIGINAL ten commandments? LOL So how can they be "new commandments?
Not really because you said this below: ( which is not true ) Jesus did not give us Christians these 2 new commandments to follow.
Originally Posted by Chris1975
- Jesus gave us two new commandments (I will summary paraphrase : Love God ; Love your Neighbour).
- Murder is neither loving your neighbour, nor Loving God
My understanding (as limited as it is) when Jesus said Love the Lord your God with heart soul and mind, Love your neighbour as yourself that this actually sums up the 10 commandments.
Love God sums up the first 4
Love your neighbor sums up the last 6
Then he takes it further.
Love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you.
Love God sums up the first 4
Love your neighbor sums up the last 6
Then he takes it further.
Love your enemies and do good to those who persecute you.
Christ has perfected for ever those who are being sanctified by His one offering -- Hebrews 10:14.
Others are merely crying "But can I help?" which means simply they do not believe His work, His one offering to have completed the transaction. This is always the case of those conflating prescriptive and descriptive texts.
This conveys to us a domesticated truncated view of the Christ of God as being held by some. It is a blasphemous position and stance to believe, teach, and propagate this low view of Christ.
All of this conveys an incomplete picture of Christ and a lack of faith in who He is and what He has accomplished. It is not the Christ of Scripture that they are representing, it is something altogether different, it is to present to us some failed god who failed to accomplish all he set out to do.
Christ is preeminent, His offering is perfect, He has finished the work, Christ is enough and is all we need and we are complete in Him -- Colossians 2:10. Yet many will have none of that and are adding to the Gospel and are preaching another. This is what Paul meant in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 &c about preaching another Christ - and here they are, still with us today, doing the same things.
Others are merely crying "But can I help?" which means simply they do not believe His work, His one offering to have completed the transaction. This is always the case of those conflating prescriptive and descriptive texts.
This conveys to us a domesticated truncated view of the Christ of God as being held by some. It is a blasphemous position and stance to believe, teach, and propagate this low view of Christ.
All of this conveys an incomplete picture of Christ and a lack of faith in who He is and what He has accomplished. It is not the Christ of Scripture that they are representing, it is something altogether different, it is to present to us some failed god who failed to accomplish all he set out to do.
Christ is preeminent, His offering is perfect, He has finished the work, Christ is enough and is all we need and we are complete in Him -- Colossians 2:10. Yet many will have none of that and are adding to the Gospel and are preaching another. This is what Paul meant in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 &c about preaching another Christ - and here they are, still with us today, doing the same things.
Amen! Excellent post! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save. No supplements needed.
So YOUR eternal salvation is dependent on what you do? Or is it dependent on who Jesus is and what HE has done for you?
Btw. I am NOT arguing that we shouldIn't follow Jesus. Only that our following doesn't save us. Jesus does that. He doesn't need any co-saviors.
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Ariel82
Guest
Common misconception...
Galatians 4
Galatians 4 ►
English Standard Version
Sons and Heirs
1I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave,a though he is the owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. 3In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principlesb of the world. 4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,
“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.
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Ariel82
Guest
the covenant at Mount Sinai
Exodus 19 & 20...
20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”
.....
20 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[d] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”
Exodus 19 & 20...
20 The Lord descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up 21 and the Lord said to him, “Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the Lord and many of them perish. 22 Even the priests, who approach the Lord, must consecrate themselves, or the Lord will break out against them.”
.....
20 And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[d] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”
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Ariel82
Guest
2 covenant
1. Through Moses on Mount Sinai
And
2. With Abraham and his promised Seed, Christ Jesus, not seeds.
Even Moses prophecies of the fulfillment of the 2nd covenant and speaks of Jesus.
Different verses. Can give them if needed.
1. Through Moses on Mount Sinai
And
2. With Abraham and his promised Seed, Christ Jesus, not seeds.
Even Moses prophecies of the fulfillment of the 2nd covenant and speaks of Jesus.
Different verses. Can give them if needed.
There is a problem here. A connection is made between anger and murder.
And this is anger against an individual not a behaviour or action.
So everyday we murder people. This is hyper-legalism which is certainly why
Ariel relates to g7 and his crowd.
Anger repression is often the most common psychological failing people suffer from
and irritations become desires to destroy someone because of something so small
the reaction is just absurd. And sometimes it does lead to real murder.
Jesus actually says this.
"But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell."
The anger which is being judged is against a fellow disciple not anybody.
If it escalates to an insult, the court of the Lord will make a judgement.
If you say to a disciple "you fool" you endanger your salvation.
So anger in one context, Jesus is condemning. Anger in the general world
he is saying nothing about. And anger does lead often to murder or murder
results from frustration and the desire to literally remove someone.
So you see what I mean by hyper-legalism, taking something from scripture and
making it more than it is.
Ariel is saying we are all guilty of murder ever day. Not a chance.
I do not get angry very often, and against a fellow believer, I cannot remember
ever this happening. It may have happened, but my conscience is clear.
So it is easy for legalism to creep in, to define things Jesus is not saying and then
condemn oneself. Beware you do not give the enemy opportunity to define who
you are rather than dwell in the Spirit.
There is a failure to grasp something about life in Christ.
We are co-heirs, brothers, equal with Christ. It is astounding what Jesus is saying to us.
God wants us to be fellow servants of each other, to see and meet needs, to anoint,
lift up the weak and less fortunate.
He spent 3 years making disciples, winning friends, sharing His heart.
This had to be done, because this is the door of friendship, of union, of oneness,
of love, of being with another.
So Christ has done everything to bring us into the Kingdom, we then need to learn
and follow Him being a part of heaven on earth. Is an athlete an athlete because
they run, or because they run they are called an athlete. You are what you do.
If one does not do it, one is not what one claims to be. So Christ brought us through
the cross to the Kingdom, so walk in it, or one is in delusion and have not even arrived.
Now I do not know where anyone is, but I can guess. It is up to ourselves to discover
where we are and what Jesus wants us to do next. It can be very shocking to find that
what you thought was fine, is not, or very reassuring to know what God has built is
fantastic. At the core love is our foundation flowing from an open heart.
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Ariel82
Guest
You would call Jesus a hyper-legalist, PeterJens.
"
The anger which is being judged is against a fellow disciple not anybody."
Your conscience is only clear because you label anyone who disagrees with you a nonbeliever.
You have called brothers and sisters in Christ "nutcases, lost" and many other names.
Only person who doesn't see it, is you.
"
The anger which is being judged is against a fellow disciple not anybody."
Your conscience is only clear because you label anyone who disagrees with you a nonbeliever.
You have called brothers and sisters in Christ "nutcases, lost" and many other names.
Only person who doesn't see it, is you.