The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[Yahshua]

They were blameless before men, who else?. They were righteous before God, just as Lot was (2 Peter 2.7), in other words compared with others. But not righteous in themselves. Or do you think Lot was blameless Yes or no?

1) When we read something from scripture we're not to add to or take away from what is written. By all means reason through them but don't add to them.

2) Believers should not be concerned with the judgment of men because it has nothing to do with what other men think about our status or position with God. Only God's eyes matters. Only what he sees.

3) [...and this is one learned from elementary school] When we read a sentence, we are to take all of that sentence (including clauses, phrases and compound sentences that add further information to the subject or pronoun) as a complete thought in relation to the subject or pronoun presented. This means when you read text (like a sentence in my reply, for instance) it's grammatically incorrect and intellectually dishonest to break up the thought into one or more incomplete fragments and then treat them as their own thoughts out of context from each other.

So let's try this passage again...again take any version of the passage:

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

Pronoun (subject) = Them (Zechariah & Elizabeth)
Adjective = Righteous
Phrase (& Object) = "in the sight (of God)"
Dependent Support of original thought = "observing Lords commands & decrees"
Adverb supporting dependent clause = "blamelessly"

1) Do not add to or take away from the words written.
2) As a believer do not be concerned with what men "think" or see. The focus is what God's sees.
3) Take the entire sentence as a complete thought.

Now do you accept what is written? yes or no? I'll be sure to answer your follow up question about Lot when you answer mine, thanks.

you are not innocent, otherwise you would have no sins

You just broke up my single thought into fragments, so i'm going to reply below to your question based on my complete thought.

So the Son finds you guilty but forgiven?

Your position is oxymoronic and it's why you're trapped in a sin/repent cycle; because of unbelief (and possibly your own unforgiveness). One who's pardoned is no longer guilty of a crime. They are then innocent once again in the eyes of the law. And one who is still guilty of a crime hasn't yet been pardoned. They haven't been set free from judgment of the law; still under it. If one still feels guilty because of their sin ("I'm a sinner...saved by") then that's a telltale sign they have not yet to be pardoned by Christ through faith and are still under the law's judgment. Christ cleanses us of sin and unrighteousness. "Cleanse" means stain removed.

How can you be innocent if you have to be set free?

You're still thinking about the old man *before* forgiveness. Think about the new man *after* forgiveness. A man doesn't remain where he was, *after* he's forgiven. I am innocent *after* I'm set free, and not innocent beforehand.

But which millennium? The One where Christ is reigning over the earth NOW?



But this is the NEW earth, the spiritual earth (21.1),

This is yet another rabbit trail (like Lot) that I don't mind exploring it with you elsewhere but it's taking us away from the main focus.

Then you are NOT righteous or blameless!!!!!!

You're all over the place. The focus of my reply here was regarding your adverb "permanently". One is righteous as long as they *do* righteousness. The Spirit of God moves us (i.e. compels us) to *do* God's law. The Spirit puts God's law on our hearts to do, but *we* have to *do*. We are not robots without will. If we do not do right then we are no longer righteous. If we do not do right then we have something to be blamed for.

so you are not righteous, only trying to be?

These are the "basics" Hebrews talks about that some should be well past by now...

Step 1) Me, the sinner. No hope. Guilty. Unrighteous. Undeserving. Doomed.

Step 2) I have faith in Christ...

Step 3) Christ pardons me of my crimes. *Cleanses* me of my past sins.

Step 4) In that moment: I'm no longer a sinner. Now Hopeful. Now Innocent. Now Righteous. Now blameless. Still undeserving, but no longer doomed.

Step 5) Christ then provides his divine strength (grace) to DO righteousness; His Holy Spirit to guild in good works.

Step 6) It's now my job to *remain* innocent; be righteous; by *doing* what is right blamelessly and not sinning.

But you have admitted you need to be forgiven. Therefore you cannot be blameless. And that is what you claimed in the beginning



because you are not blameless



How does this make you blameless. You have forgotten what you are arguing LOL



you started off by claiming to be blameless. then you prove you a not blameless. What ARE you trying to prove?

Nope, I'm pretty consistent but you've lost my point because of your tendency to break-up a person's complete thoughts into incomplete fragments while also going on rabbit trails. It causes your own confusion. I've no doubt you'll continue to do it but I've provided my position in the steps above for your clarification.

I started off by explaining to EG that Zechariah and Elizabeth were blamelessly walking in God's commandments and were thus righteous in his eyes in the "OT" (since Christ hadn't yet went to the cross)...but then added that "when one is already guilty of breaking God's law" - as we WERE - that following the law can't set one "right" with it. One must first be pardoned. This was the sub-topic we started discussing with regard to this thread.

The issue you have with me is specifically with steps 4 and 6 that I've highlighted in Turquoise above because it conflicts with your gospel. You can't reconcile the two with regard to Zechariah and Elizabeth being righteous in the sight of God by walking in all of his commands blamelessly (as the scripture says), because you don't believe it's possible for *anyone* to do that, even after Christ and the cross; even after the giving of the Holy Spirit; even after we've been given the divine power of God (i.e. grace). You deny the power thereof.

A sinner = one who *does* sin. A sinner is as he/she *does*. No sinner is righteous; not one. And no righteous person sins. While we were yet doing sin, Christ died for us. We had to be set right first before we could walk in righteousness. Then once set right; actually set right (no, not "considered" right while still wrong, but once we are cleaned), we are then required to grow in the divine power of God has given to us as a gift so as to "be" righteous by "doing" right.

...When we sin we are no longer righteous but unrighteous...but if we confess our sin God is faithful and just to forgive us and clean us of our unrighteousness, making us righteous again.

 

[valiant]

1) When we read something from scripture we're not to add to or take away from what is written. By all means reason through them but don't add to them.

We are to interpret correctly in the light of other Scriptures.

2) Believers should not be concerned with the judgment of men because it has nothing to do with what other men think about our status or position with God. Only God's eyes matters. Only what he sees.

But the judgment of other men helps us to find WHAT Scripture teaches.

3) [...and this is one learned from elementary school] When we read a sentence, we are to take all of that sentence (including clauses, phrases and compound sentences that add further information to the subject or pronoun) as a complete thought in relation to the subject or pronoun presented

.

Then go back to elementary school and learn a bit more.

This means when you read text (like a sentence in my reply, for instance) it's grammatically incorrect and intellectually dishonest to break up the thought into one or more incomplete fragments and then treat them as their own thoughts out of context from each other.

Rubbish. If I did that I'd be as longwinded as you.

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

It cannot literally mean blameless for none of us are blameless. Therefore the translation is incorrect.

Now do you accept what is written? yes or no?

Not as translated. No one is blameless.

I'll be sure to answer your follow up question about Lot when you answer mine, thanks.

Now answer mine.

You just broke up my single thought into fragments, so i'm going to reply below to your question based on my complete thought

.

I expect to be readable to others. I am not interested in your strictures.

One who's pardoned is no longer guilty of a crime.

Rubbish. He is guilty but pardoned,

They are then innocent once again in the eyes of the law.

No they are guilty but pardoned.

And one who is still guilty of a crime hasn't yet been pardoned.

Rubbish, it is neither true nor Scriptural. In Scripture we are declared RIGHTEOUS not pardoned.

They haven't been set free from judgment of the law; still under it.

If they are pardoned they are still technically under judgment, but their sin has been overlooked by the authorities. It would not do for a righteous God,,

If one still feels guilty because of their sin ("I'm a sinner...saved by") then that's a telltale sign they have not yet to be pardoned by Christ through faith and are still under the law's judgment.

There is a difference between feeling guilty on the one hand and yet knowing one IS a sinner on the other. There is a guilty sinner, and a sinner who has been released from guilt. I may be justified in God's sight, yet still recognise that underneath I am a sinner (as Paul did). You are just playing with words.

Christ cleanses us of sin and unrighteousness. "Cleanse" means stain removed.

Christ cleanses us and pardons us, but He does more. He makes us POSITIVELY righteous in God's sight. The stain is not removed it is cancelled. To be cleansed means we can be unclean again tomorrow. To be justified means that I am seen by God as righteous even though I am unrighteous.

You're still thinking about the old man *before* forgiveness. Think about the new man *after* forgiveness. A man doesn't remain where he was, *after* he's forgiven. I am innocent *after* I'm set free, and not innocent beforehand.

You can never be innocent once you have sinned. The old and new man does not come into it. It is a fact. By God's grace, however, we can be given the righteousness of Christ. But that is a judicial transaction not an actual return to innocency.

You're all over the place.

or possibly correct?

The focus of my reply here was regarding your adverb "permanently". One is righteous as long as they *do* righteousness.

No God justifies us (counts us as righteous) while we are still unrighteous. It is judicial. It is CHRIST's righteousness replacing our unrighteousness. That is the wonderful thing. From the point of view of justification we do not have any righteousness to do. We are permanently righteous, while still being sinners. Gradual escape from sin comes afterwards.

The Spirit of God moves us (i.e. compels us) to *do* God's law. The Spirit puts God's law on our hearts to do, but *we* have to *do*. We are not robots without will.

This is a contradictory statement, Either He compels, and thus you have no choice, or He merely guides. You cannot have it both ways.

If we do not do right then we are no longer righteous. If we do not do right then we have something to be blamed for.

you do not understand justification, We are accounted as righteous even when we do not do right

 

[sparkman]

Read these Scriptures regarding the Law of Moses.

I would add II Corinthians 3 too.

 

[sparkman]

Revised version of the meme

 

[Yahshua]

We are to interpret correctly in the light of other Scriptures.



But the judgment of other men helps us to find WHAT Scripture teaches.

Enough said.

Rubbish. If I did that I'd be as longwinded as you.

Thank you! I consider that a compliment. Paul and Christ were the same.

It cannot literally mean blameless for none of us are blameless. Therefore the translation is incorrect.



Not as translated. No one is blameless.

lol which translation would you like to accept because they all either say: blameless, perfectly, without reproach, careful, ἄμεμπτοι (Greek amemptoi = blameless)? I'll let you pick a translation unless you're saying you don't accept any of the translations (??) in which case I think that's all that need be said.

Now answer mine.

"Do *I think* Lot was blameless?" No. But it's not about what I think. I accept what scripture says. Peter says Lot was righteous.

I expect to be readable to others. I am not interested in your strictures.

Yeah you are insterested at least a little else you'd ignore me.

Rubbish. He is guilty but pardoned,


No they are guilty but pardoned.


Rubbish, it is neither true nor Scriptural. In Scripture we are declared RIGHTEOUS not pardoned.



If they are pardoned they are still technically under judgment, but their sin has been overlooked by the authorities. It would not do for a righteous God,,

Oook. I think that's all that need be said here too.

There is a difference between feeling guilty on the one hand and yet knowing one IS a sinner on the other. There is a guilty sinner, and a sinner who has been released from guilt. I may be justified in God's sight, yet still recognise that underneath I am a sinner (as Paul did). You are just playing with words.


Christ cleanses us and pardons us, but He does more. He makes us POSITIVELY righteous in God's sight. The stain is not removed it is cancelled. To be cleansed means we can be unclean again tomorrow. To be justified means that I am seen by God as righteous even though I am unrighteous.

I agree with your bold text but the rest is incorrect. It's an impossibility. It's hypocritical. Can't be justified clean on the outside but still a dirty sinner on the inside. One who's been made clean by God is clean through and through because it's in God's power alone to do so. Sin isn't stronger than God's power to cleanse it.


Matthew 23:25-26
25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well."

Inside to outside is the order of cleansing.

You can never be innocent once you have sinned. The old and new man does not come into it. It is a fact. By God's grace, however, we can be given the righteousness of Christ. But that is a judicial transaction not an actual return to innocency.



No God justifies us (counts us as righteous) while we are still unrighteous. It is judicial. It is CHRIST's righteousness replacing our unrighteousness. That is the wonderful thing. From the point of view of justification we do not have any righteousness to do. We are permanently righteous, while still being sinners. Gradual escape from sin comes afterwards.

It's the deceitfulness of sin to believe that it's stronger than God's ability to cleanse it. If freedom from its captivity does not come first there can be no end of sin. The inside must be cleaned first before the outside. But I think we've established we won't agree here.

This is a contradictory statement, Either He compels, and thus you have no choice, or He merely guides. You cannot have it both ways.

One can deny the movement of the Holy Spirit in them and then sin, that's called *willful* sin. But if you don't like the word "compel" then we can lean towards the the word "guide" for a better understanding.

you do not understand justification, We are accounted as righteous even when we do not do right

Nope. Justification is: We are cleansed and made righteous even when we have not (previously) done right. Both your version and mind can appear to be the same to the untrained eye but they are very different concepts.

 

[Yahshua]

Revised version of the meme

What say you about to two greatest commandments? Should we follow them or ignore them?

 

[valiant]

Thank you! I consider that a compliment. Paul and Christ were the same.

Neither Christ Jesus or Paul was long winded. They didn't go on and on like you do,,

lol which translation would you like to accept because they all either say: blameless, perfectly, without reproach, careful, ἄμεμπτοι (Greek amemptoi = blameless)? I'll let you pick a translation unless you're saying you don't accept any of the translations (??) in which case I think that's all that need be said.

The nearest is 'without general reproach'.

"Do *I think* Lot was blameless?" No. But it's not about what I think. I accept what scripture says. Peter says Lot was righteous

.

so what does it mean, given that he was mixed up with unrighteous Sodom?

Yeah you are insterested at least a little else you'd ignore me

.

No i'm putting you straight for the sake of others.

I agree with your bold text but the rest is incorrect. It's an impossibility. It's hypocritical. Can't be justified clean on the outside but still a dirty sinner on the inside. One who's been made clean by God is clean through and through because it's in God's power alone to do so. Sin isn't stronger than God's power to cleanse it.

Funny, GOD says He justifies the ungodly (Rom 4.5)

 

[Yahshua]

Neither Christ Jesus or Paul was long winded. They didn't go on and on like you do,,

Nah. My replies to you are barely a page, vs chapters and chapters of their writings. Me thinks you just don't like my words

The nearest is 'without general reproach'.

Ok

so what does it mean, given that he was mixed up with unrighteous Sodom?

We don't have to guess because we can go to the genesis passage and understand exactly what Peter meant in context.

It means Lot wasn't wicked/sinfu, unlike the rest of those there.

Lol I'd post the passages showing that but I have a sneaky suspicion you'd accuse me of (a) using a translation you don't accept and/or (b) being long winded.

No i'm putting you straight for the sake of others.

Oh that's what you call this lol how's it going so far?

Funny, GOD says He justifies the ungodly (Rom 4.5)

^Truth. Then after they're justified are they allowed to remain ungodly?

 

[preacher4truth]

The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Let's start a discussion on these matters.

You need a nice pork sammich.

 

[valiant]

Nah. My replies to you are barely a page, vs chapters and chapters of their writings. Me thinks you just don't like my words

But they are constantly on the move. You are stuck on your hobby horse, the commandments.

We don't have to guess because we can go to the genesis passage and understand exactly what Peter meant in context.

It means Lot wasn't wicked/sinfu, unlike the rest of those there.

It meant that he was LESS sinful, and in comparison showed up favourably. Hardly what we call righteous

Lol I'd post the passages showing that but I have a sneaky suspicion you'd accuse me of (a) using a translation you don't accept and/or (b) being long winded.

No i'd say you were dishonest .

Oh that's what you call this lol how's it going so far?

I think I've put your ideas straight quite well and shown their folly lol

^Truth. Then after they're justified are they allowed to remain ungodly?

As far as their justification goes, yes. It doesn't depend on works.

 

[stonesoffire]

The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Let's start a discussion on these matters.

A natural minded man or woman will always be looking for something to do to please the Lord.

He says what pleases Him is to believe what He says. Romans 3 says we are justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

But, we establish the commandments of God, which Jesus said that the first two will fill all the rest, because the law is Spiritual, the Word of Spirit or the Word of God...and now we are of Spirit...written within on our hearts.

Simply put...we are now like God.

 

[Grandpa]

No one that is saved desires to break any commandments.

The only problem is that the power to keep them doesn't belong to us. So the more you understand what the law says the more you understand the condemnation contained within them.

The only way out of this condemnation is the Lord Jesus Christ. After we are taken from this condemnation I surely don't understand why anyone would go back to it. Unless they just didn't understand what the law says or what the Lord Jesus Christ has done for them.

The bible clearly says that the law is the ministry of condemnation and death. The bible clearly says that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The bible clearly says that those who have come to Christ are no longer under the law, and therefore condemnation.

 

[slave]

Its a pretty big temptation to want to live by your own perceived wisdom. Especially when you think you are exceedingly wise.


I wonder how people can come to Christ and still want to live by their own strength and wisdom contained in their knowledge of the law. I guess Paul wondered the same thing. It must be a pretty big temptation.

Absolutely, many mix living by the flesh and spirit, some live by the flesh and call it the spirit. But it is only if we live by the Spirit can the power of God be seen in the things we do. Regardless of the flesh being able to produce beautiful things - We are to "put to death the things of the flesh." This is apart of our obedience to His Spirit thru the power of His spirit revealed in our living a life that Jesus lived, not becoming Jesus, but living our own life, as Jesus lived, thru Jesus.

Once our spirit is in a passive state, the Holy Spirit will no longer have a way to use it because the condition under which the Holy Spirit operates in man's life is totally different from that under which Satan operates. The Holy Spirit requires man to cooperate with Him entirely and livingly. He desires man to actively work with Him. He never denies the personality of the believers. In contrast, Satan requires man to fully stop in order that he may take over. He wants man to receive his work passively and become his mechanism. We must be watchful not to go to extremes by misunderstanding spiritual doctrines. We need not be afraid of going to the extreme in obeying the Lord or in rejecting the works of the flesh, which we must put away thoroughly.

However, we should be very careful not to go to the kind of extreme that results from misunderstandings. Whatever belongs to man and comes out of man is vanity; we should seek only after God's own work. Nothing will have spiritual value unless it is done by the Holy Spirit through our spirit. Therefore, we should wait for God's revelation in our spirit. All of this is true. How good it would be if the believers acted according to this truth! But here lies the danger of an extreme that comes from misunderstanding. Due to misinterpretation, believers assume that they should not do anything --that their mind should be "blank," letting the Holy Spirit think for them; that their emotion should not be allowed to have any affection, letting the Holy Spirit put His own affections in their heart; and that their will should not make any decision, letting the Holy Spirit decide for them. They accept whatever happens to them, assuming that they should not actively use their spirit to cooperate with the Holy Spirit, but passively wait for the Holy Spirit's move. Once there is any moving within, they think it must have come from the Holy Spirit.

This is absolutely wrong. God wants to do away with the action of our flesh, but He does not intend to destroy us as a person. He never eliminates our personality. He does not want us to become a lifeless mechanism; He wants us to cooperate with Him. He does not want us to become void of thoughts, affections, and judgment. He desires that we think, feel, and decide in accordance with what He thinks, feels, and decides. The Holy Spirit will not replace our thoughts, feelings, and decisions; we still have to think, feel, and make decisions in accordance with God's own purpose.

If our mind, emotion, and will become utterly passive, requiring an outside power to take their place, then the spirit will inevitably fall into a passive condition. When a believer is unable to use his own spirit and needs a power from without to "move" his spirit, Satan will take full advantage of him.

 

[slave]

No one that is saved desires to break any commandments.

The only problem is that the power to keep them doesn't belong to us. So the more you understand what the law says the more you understand the condemnation contained within them.

The only way out of this condemnation is the Lord Jesus Christ. After we are taken from this condemnation I surely don't understand why anyone would go back to it. Unless they just didn't understand what the law says or what the Lord Jesus Christ has done for them.

The bible clearly says that the law is the ministry of condemnation and death. The bible clearly says that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The bible clearly says that those who have come to Christ are no longer under the law, and therefore condemnation.

True, but only about the not under condemnation part.... the emphasis, however, isn't that we are without condemnation, the emphasis is that we must remain in Christ - therefore, we are under no condemnation. But, by saying that, then ,we are now obligated (thru our love, after He first loved us) to do the will of the Father thru Jesus Christ. If we don't see it this way we will be in for a major surprise come time He asks us to do the radically impossible.

Living a Christ-like life is not, now, randomly effortless and concluded, it is a hard life of serving God's purposes empowered by God thru Jesus to accomplish what we have been commissioned to do,(and God merits us this in heaven) - and all the while being fervently attacked by the enemy.

If we remain passive in this condition, and do not take the fight to the enemy, the enemy will gain strength to attack all the more. We are to focus on dying to the right to ourselves, while enlivening the things of Jesus' victory here on earth; reconciling man to the Father. Our fight with Satan can never start as our fight to gain, but from His victory to stand. Our love for man cannot be real, unless it is of unconditional Agape love found only in the heart and mind of Christ resounding within us.

Now, let's go back to "We are not condemned" - Ok, great point, now let's let God use that, with all our effort for His purposes and intentions! - Right?!!

 

[Grandpa]

True, but only about the not under condemnation part.... the emphasis, however, isn't that we are without condemnation, the emphasis is that we must remain in Christ - therefore, we are under no condemnation. But, by saying that, then ,we are now obligated (thru our love, after He first loved us) to do the will of the Father thru Jesus Christ. If we don't see it this way we will be in for a major surprise come time He asks us to do the radically impossible.

Living a Christ-like life is not, now, randomly effortless and concluded, it is a hard life of serving God's purposes empowered by God thru Jesus to accomplish what we have been commissioned to do,(and God merits us this in heaven) - and all the while being fervently attacked by the enemy.

If we remain passive in this condition, and do not take the fight to the enemy, the enemy will gain strength to attack all the more. We are to focus on dying to the right to ourselves, while enlivening the things of Jesus' victory here on earth; reconciling man to the Father. Our fight with Satan can never start as our fight to gain, but from His victory to stand. Our love for man cannot be real, unless it is of unconditional Agape love found only in the heart and mind of Christ resounding within us.

Now, let's go back to "We are not condemned" - Ok, great point, now let's let God use that, with all our effort for His purposes and intentions! - Right?!!

No. I pretty much disagree with everything here.

Are you your own workmanship or are you Gods Workmanship? It sure looks like you keep trying to wrestle His Work away from Him and make it your own.

Common mistake. Ancient mistake.

This is basically saying, ok you're saved, now get back to work like everyone else. But what did the Lord say?

Luke 10:40-42
[FONT=&quot]40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.[/FONT]

 

[Grace777x70]

God gives us both the desire and the capability to do His good pleasure from the inside of us.

"For it is God who is at work in us both to do will and to do of His good pleasure". Phil. 2:13

We can rest in Him knowing that He will bring it to past and we get to participate in this life with Him joined as one spirit forever in Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

When we are one with Christ, all we do is driven by Him, so very much we are active
but empowered by His word and the Holy Spirit.

 

[gotime]

The condemnation of the law has been nailed to the cross for all who believe and the law is for the lawless.....NEXT!

"Next" is not accurate lol. At best For a true seeker you might have caused a problem with seemingly contradictory statements in the Bible. Thus one has to do much more than simply reference other verses. One must show that the original assumptions of the OP is in error. The texts you just spoke of do not do that. Not saying they are not good texts but rather they do not achieve any clarity by simply referring to them. What is the context of the original text used by the OP, If one can not shew there or reason logically from context that it is not implying what the Op has suggested then one can not argue no matter how many seemingly opposing texts are brought in.

 

[gotime]

The Law of Moses has not been abolished, because heaven and earth has not yet passed away, hence "unit heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law..." and "whoever sets aside the least of the commands, will be called least...". Even Paul says, "we do not nullify the Law by this faith, but we uphold the Law". Let's start a discussion on these matters.

My advice to you christig is this, As you read replies take little note of those who make no attempt to address the text and the surrounding context of the text you have brought to the discussion. It is simply bad reasoning to attempt to answer with other texts from the bible without addressing the text in question. Those who do address it, give some time to it and see if it rings true. If so accept it if not reject it.

 

[slave]

No. I pretty much disagree with everything here.

Are you your own workmanship or are you Gods Workmanship? It sure looks like you keep trying to wrestle His Work away from Him and make it your own.

Common mistake. Ancient mistake.

This is basically saying, ok you're saved, now get back to work like everyone else. But what did the Lord say?

Luke 10:40-42
40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.
41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:
42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

"Oh how I love my Heavenly Father Grandpa; don't you?" "He is so wonderful isn't He? So Wise, So True, and So loving. I love this story of Martha and Mary, it so illustrates my points in Scripture I have brought up in this thread overall To live by His Spirit and not to live on any other basis.

We don't consciously and deliberately disobey God, or at least I don't, nor do I believe you do Grandpa - we simply don't listen to Him sometimes. God has given His commands to us, but we pay no attention to them - not because of willful disobedience, but because we do not truly love and respect Him. "If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15).

I pray that once we realize we have constantly been showing disrespect to God, we will be filled with shame and humiliation for ignoring Him. Once we finally do hear Him, the humiliation we have heaped on Him returns to us. My response has been, "Lord, why was I so insensitive and obstinate?" This is always the result once we hear God. But our real delight in finally hearing Him is tempered with the shame we feel for having taken so long to do so. We need to intently love God thru Jesus Christ, respecting His wishes.

I am not going back to work as in the case of a non-regenerated man hoping to earn Christ, I am going on with His work because I know Him and have received His free gift, resulting in me listening to His wishes, and I love Him enough to do as He asks. I am not anxious at all over this, for He has given me His peace - thus, I relate myself in Mary's position in that story.... I have learned from Jesus what is most important thus, I am asked to pick-up my cross daily and follow Him wherever He is taking me. Both onward, and upward always...