Faith ALONE, where is it?

[Yahshua]

So God can only work in us through Jesus Christ what we have learned by studying scripture?

You're avoiding my question again. I answered yours so answer mine and I will answer your next question.

 

[preacher4truth]

So I tried to find where in the bible is FAITH ALONE mentioned, and the only result on the esword is this (ironically):

Jas_2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Well what about the infamous often quoted ephesians 2:8-9?

Hmm. Contradiction? Different dispensation? OR...... OR: Could it be that the WORKS mentioned in ephesians 2:8-9 are religious ceremonies, rituals, circumcisions, diverse washings etc.

I say yes, it makes sense, see now we dont have to contradict the overwhelming call of the book of acts and the gospels where its stated: Repent(something we do) and believe the gospel. (believe, trust).

Now is this simple or what? Dont need to throw out James or say its to tribulation saints or whatever.

I hope atleast someone sees this, while I know its probably an unpopular message these days.
what message? Well repent and believe the gospel of course, I know im preaching to the choir since most people here are saved, but it does worry me that some christians have this faith alone thing driven into them to a point where they are saying preaching repentance is heresy (Steven anderson does this for example to drop a name).


PS And as always, if someone can show me the infamous sola fide from scripture, i'll change my mind in an instant. I just dont know how you can do away with the statement in James tho.

Yep, there are MANY who take repentance out of the equation. Oh, they'll quote a verse about "believing" and if you hit back with one about "repentance" they'll go ballistic and say you're preaching a works Gospel. The fact is, they're preaching a truncated Gospel - and seemingly they don't know what 2 Timothy 2:15 is really all about.

Here's the thing, a "believer" is depicted by Scripture, and they just don't like that.

 

[FreeNChrist]

You're avoiding my question again. I answered yours so answer mine and I will answer your next question.

No have no problem with you or anyone else spurring others on to be who they are in Christ.

 

[Yahshua]

You surely are a crafty manipulator of scripture.

He is not saying that words are the spirit, he states the words that he speaks to you are spirit. You must actually go to the actual words he references . Which are in vs 53

53.Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless Matt. 26:26you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54John 4:14; 6:27, 40Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. 56He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood (1 John 3:24; 4:15, 16)abides in Me, and I in him.57As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58John 6:49–51This is the bread which came down from heaven—not Ex. 16:14–35as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

That is the Spirit which He references.

I'm sure you can look back at my post and see that I clearly said "Christ's words". I can't edit the post now that it's been 5 mins. Even your quote of my post shows it too.

 

[Yahshua]

No have no problem with you or anyone else spurring others on to be who they are in Christ.

That wasn't the question. So you don't have a problem with me or those like me "spurring" you and believers on to do Good works and to encourage you to "make every effort" to be holy then do you?

When you answer my question I'll definitely answer yours.

 

[FreeNChrist]

That wasn't the question. So you don't have a problem with me or those like me "spurring" you and believers on to do Good works and to encourage you to "make every effort" to be holy then do you?

When you answer my question I'll definitely answer yours.

Then ask questions that don't include your own erroneous conclusions. I have no problem with what is written in Hebrews.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

wasn't it John Calvin who said, 'we are saved by faith alone (Paul), but the faith that saves is not alone (James).' ?

GOD looks at the heart,man looks at a person's behavior.

 

[Yahshua]

I've already said I accept the whole book of Hebrews. Do you accept that the result of living by faith in Christ will naturally be those things you are calling "instructions".

Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good works,

Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.

Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord

Hebrews 13:16
And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

Hebrews 13:21
[May the God of peace] equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Then ask questions that don't include your own erroneous conclusions. I have no problem with what is written in Hebrews.

So then you don't have a problem with me or those like me following Hebrews 10:24 (that says to "spur" believers on to do Good works) and to follow what Hebrews 12:14 says (to "make every effort" to be holy) do you?

Is the book of Hebrews' own conclusion erroneous?

 

[FreeNChrist]

So then you don't have a problem with me or those like me following Hebrews 10:24 (that says to "spur" believers on to do Good works) and to follow what Hebrews 12:14 says (to "make every effort" to be holy) do you?

Is the book of Hebrews' own conclusion erroneous?

You want to know the "instructions" for how we Christians live? Here they are.......again.


"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:17

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6

 

[Grace777x70]

Personally I am all for walking in the life of Christ so that others can see the love and grace of our Father has for them. Of course we do this by grace through faith in Christ's finished work - the same way we received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions. But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12[/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13[/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14[/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble.

Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 -Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born as a Christian" and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

"Answering a question with a question is called avoiding the question."

Did not Christ do this? Answer a question with a question.

Sounded like a set-up and not a disguised set-up,but a "I want you to know that this Is a set-up and I want you to walk right Into this potentially vague trap."

 

[limey410]

Personally I am all for walking in the life of Christ so that others can see the love and grace of our Father has for them. Of course we do this by grace through faith in Christ's finished work - the same way we received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions. But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12[/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13[/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14[/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble.

Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 -Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born as a Christian" and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

Amen. Your analysis shows the true character of our loving God.

 

[Yahshua]

You want to know the "instructions" for how we Christians live? Here they are.......again.


"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

"For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.” Romans 1:17

"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him" Colossians 2:6

No that's not my question. I would like you to answer my question since I answered both of yours. That's what I want to know, but it doesn't look as if you want to answer what I've actually asked.


So then...

...since you believe in all of the book of Hebrews...

....you don't have a problem with me or those like me...

...following Hebrews 10:24 (that says to "spur" believers on to do Good works)...

...and to follow what Hebrews 12:14 says (to "make every effort" to be holy) do you?

 

[preacher4truth]

Personally I am all for walking in the life of Christ so that others can see the love and grace of our Father has for them. Of course we do this by grace through faith in Christ's finished work - the same way we received Him - so we walk in Him. Col. 2:6

We need to take scripture in context or that text will con you. Take Hebrews 12:14 as an excellent example. Taken isolated - we dream up all sorts of man-made traditions. But it context with "other" scriptures around it - it becomes evident what is being spoken about here.

Hebrews 12:12-15 (NASB)
[SUP]12[/SUP] Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble,

[SUP]13[/SUP] and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

[SUP]14[/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

[SUP]15[/SUP]See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

The context of this verse, Hebrews 12:13 instructs us to not walk in a manner that will cause others to stumble.

Therefore, I believe this verse isn’t talking about us seeing God but rather that if we don’t act in a holy manner, no one will see God in our lives. ( we are a living epistle )

That would certainly be a true statement that is not only consistent with Hebrews 12:14 but leads perfectly into Hebrews 12:15.


Our actions don’t earn the grace of God. That wouldn’t be grace (Romans 11:6). Therefore, we don’t fall from grace by not being holy enough to earn it. Galatians 5:4 speaks of falling from grace by putting faith in our works instead of having our faith firmly placed in Christ and what He did for us. So, the way people “fail of the grace of God” is through legalism.


Hebrews 12:15 -Notice that bitterness in our lives doesn’t just hurt or poison us but many people. Again the context of this verse shows that we are supposed to walk in a manner that influences others in a positive way. If we get bitter, that bitterness will affect others.

Works-based salvationsists have used this verse to beat people with for years as we know we are sanctified forever in our inner man now and we do need to work out what is already in us in Christ in our outward behavior.

This has nothing to do with " becoming un-born as a Christian" and not seeing the Lord ourselves and thus losing the free gift He gave us in Christ's finished work.

Actually the term no man is referring to the recipients, that is, if they do not have this transforming sanctification, they are not His, and they will not see the LORD.

It is therefore a warning to professing believers, and matches the context of the epistle of Hebrews which is filled with warnings and exhortation to examination. No one beats others up over this, only those of easy-believe-ism and other false gospels fell this way when the passage is presented in its true meaning and context. By the way, I've read no church scholar, arminian or reformed who agrees with your theory here. You really should employ them for checks and balances. Also, this has nothign to do with works-based salvation, it has to do with the transforming power of the Gospel in those truly converted.

This goes right along with Hebrews 12, that if we don't receive chastisement, we are none of His. Context, context, context.

[Heb_12:14.—μετὰ πάντων with all, not “man;” the reference is doubtless to the brethren—any further reference would here be irrelevant.—

 

[Grace777x70]

To be honest Hebrews 12:14 does not say "make every effort to be holy"...that is someone else's version of that scripture.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

The truth is we are holy now because He is holy. He alone is our sanctification . 1 Cor. 1:30. We are to work out what already is in us in Christ.

This version makes it look like we can make ourselves holy by ourselves. This is mis-leading if not filtered through the finished work of Christ.

Without the life of Christ being manifested in and through us - all men - believers or non-believers will not see Christ in us as Hebrews 12:14 says.

Verse 15 shows that - Bitterness is one way it shows up in our lives. Like those that slander others in the body of Christ. That is a prime example of this verse today. People do not see Christ in this type of behavior.

 

[Yahshua]

To be honest Hebrews 12:14 does not say "make every effort to be holy"...that is someone else's version of that scripture.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

The truth is we are holy now because He is holy. He alone is our sanctification . 1 Cor. 1:30. We are to work out what already is in us in Christ.

This version makes it look like we can make ourselves holy by ourselves. This is mis-leading if not filtered through the finished work of Christ.

But Grace777 that's what the passage says...

Here is every version of the passage, along with the Greek at the very end, with the definitions for the keywords in use.

---

New International Version
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


New Living Translation
Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.

English Standard Version
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.


Berean Study Bible
Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.


Berean Literal Bible
Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord,


New American Standard Bible
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.


King James Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Holman Christian Standard Bible
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness--without it no one will see the Lord.

International Standard Version
Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.


NET Bible
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, for without it no one will see the Lord.


New Heart English Bible
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Run after peace with every man, and after holiness, without which no one shall see Our Lord.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Try to live peacefully with everyone, and try to live holy lives, because if you don't, you will not see the Lord.


New American Standard 1977
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Follow peace with everyone and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:


King James 2000 Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


American King James Version
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

American Standard Version
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:


Douay-Rheims Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God.


Darby Bible Translation
Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:

English Revised Version
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:

Webster's Bible Translation
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Weymouth New Testament
but may rather be restored. Persistently strive for peace with all men, and for that growth in holiness apart from which no one will see the Lord.


World English Bible
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,

Young's Literal Translation
peace pursue with all, and the separation, apart from which no one shall see the Lord,

---

Greek
Εἰρήνην διώκετε [pursue] μετὰ πάντων, καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμόν [Holiness], οὗ χωρὶς [without] οὐδεὶς ὄψεται τὸν Κύριον,


1377 diṓkō – properly, aggressively chase, like a hunter pursuing a catch (prize). 1377 (diṓkō) is used positively ("earnestly pursue") and negatively ("zealously persecute, hunt down"). In each case, 1377 (diṓkō) means pursue with all haste ("chasing" after), earnestly desiring to overtake (apprehend).


Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").


5565 xōrís (a preposition, also used as an adverb which is probably derived from 5561 /xṓra, "an open or detached space") – properly, apart from, separated ("without"); (figuratively) detached, rendering something invalid or valid.

 

[preacher4truth]

To be honest Hebrews 12:14 does not say "make every effort to be holy"...that is someone else's version of that scripture.

That's the sense of the word "pursue" and you're incorrect.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)

[SUP] [/SUP]Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord

Is this like pick the version that you like the sound of best, or is it a study in Greek and parsing? It is the former, adn not teh latter. You can't just go by how your tradition tells you to see it. Instead of making the Word subject to you, how about becoming subject to it?

The truth is we are holy now because He is holy. He alone is our sanctification . 1 Cor. 1:30. We are to work out what already is in us in Christ.

You're getting warmer!

This version makes it look like we can make ourselves holy by ourselves. This is mis-leading if not filtered through the finished work of Christ.

You come to these erroneous conclusions because you don't distinguish between prescriptive and descriptive texts of Scripture.

Hebrews 12:14 is the latter.

The passage doesn't even come close to saying what you're trying to make it say, that is, that we make ourselves holy (in the stead of the holiness given by Christ, I have to make that distinction so you and others will understand there is one).

But other Scriptures do this, and holy means we set ourselves apart. Note 1 John 3:3. Also note 2 Timothy 2:20-21, and keep in mind those are descriptive texts as well, in other words they describe the actions of the truly converted.

 

[Grace777x70]

But Grace777 that's what the passage says...

Here is every version of the passage, along with the Greek at the very end, with the definitions for the keywords in use.

---

New International Version
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.


New Living Translation
Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.

English Standard Version
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.


Berean Study Bible
Pursue peace with all men, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.


Berean Literal Bible
Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord,


New American Standard Bible
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.


King James Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Holman Christian Standard Bible
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness--without it no one will see the Lord.

International Standard Version
Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.


NET Bible
Pursue peace with everyone, and holiness, for without it no one will see the Lord.


New Heart English Bible
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Run after peace with every man, and after holiness, without which no one shall see Our Lord.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Try to live peacefully with everyone, and try to live holy lives, because if you don't, you will not see the Lord.


New American Standard 1977
Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Follow peace with everyone and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:


King James 2000 Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


American King James Version
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

American Standard Version
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:


Douay-Rheims Bible
Follow peace with all men, and holiness: without which no man shall see God.


Darby Bible Translation
Pursue peace with all, and holiness, without which no one shall see the Lord:

English Revised Version
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man shall see the Lord:

Webster's Bible Translation
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:


Weymouth New Testament
but may rather be restored. Persistently strive for peace with all men, and for that growth in holiness apart from which no one will see the Lord.


World English Bible
Follow after peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord,

Young's Literal Translation
peace pursue with all, and the separation, apart from which no one shall see the Lord,

---

Greek
Εἰρήνην διώκετε [pursue] μετὰ πάντων, καὶ τὸν ἁγιασμόν [Holiness], οὗ χωρὶς [without] οὐδεὶς ὄψεται τὸν Κύριον,


1377 diṓkō – properly, aggressively chase, like a hunter pursuing a catch (prize). 1377 (diṓkō) is used positively ("earnestly pursue") and negatively ("zealously persecute, hunt down"). In each case, 1377 (diṓkō) means pursue with all haste ("chasing" after), earnestly desiring to overtake (apprehend).


Cognate: 38 hagiasmós (a masculine noun derived from 40 /hágios, "holy") – sanctification (the process of advancing in holiness); use of the believer being progressively transformed by the Lord into His likeness (similarity of nature). See 40 /hagios ("holy").


5565 xōrís (a preposition, also used as an adverb which is probably derived from 5561 /xṓra, "an open or detached space") – properly, apart from, separated ("without"); (figuratively) detached, rendering something invalid or valid.

I am not saying that we are not to be holy in our behavior. I am saying that the way that particular version made it look like it was up to us to make ourselves holy.

By all means pursue holiness but it is in the pursuing of Christ's holiness not our own. That was the distinction I was making. Big difference in my mind.

Pursue what Christ has done for us and His life and then people will see His life in us and see the Lord. We are living epistles.

The truth is Christ makes us holy - we don't make ourselves holy. When Christ is manifested in us - people see the Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

I'll give my view of sanctification so that there will be no mistake nor twisting of what I believe. I'm not saying anyone here will do it but it has been done many, many times in the past. It's the nature of the beast in here at CC...


This is what I believe about what the grace of our Lord Jesus has to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.

Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior. ( this is where people "see the Lord" in us )

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Because God is holy - we too are holy. This is descriptive of the believer and it is also what is being worked out as we get our minds renewed and transformed by the Holy Spirit as we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord as in a mirror. 2 Cor. 3:171-8

 

[mailmandan]

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

The truth is we are holy now because He is holy. He alone is our sanctification . 1 Cor. 1:30. We are to work out what already is in us in Christ.

This version makes it look like we can make ourselves holy by ourselves. This is mis-leading if not filtered through the finished work of Christ.

Without the life of Christ being manifested in and through us - all men - believers or non-believers will not see Christ in us as Hebrews 12:14 says.

Verse 15 shows that - Bitterness is one way it shows up in our lives. Like those that slander others in the body of Christ. That is a prime example of this verse today. People do not see Christ in this type of behavior.

I find it interesting that those who are saved are sanctified/set apart/made holy.