Not By Works
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There you have it folks in a nutshell
Cheerful giving is not a work. It's an expression of Christ in us out of love for him and for those who need help.
when we meet the needs of others Jesus will meet our needs.
What I have expressed is simple.
We cannot compromise the love Jesus gave us or our desire to walk in His ways.
It appears to me, rather than triggering in you a response, yes, my heart feels this
too, you are suggesting something else.
When Mary said "Rabboni" to Jesus on recognising to have risen again, do you understand
her response?
The love of one who has been forgiven much is much greater than those who have been
forgiven little. I can only share my response in my life to my Lord, because that is who
we are, and how sharing from the heart is.
God bless you, in your walk with Him.
Playing the victim seems to be a common tactic for some. If you are the producer of the Spirits good fruit, as you said in that post, that would make you God. Nice try though. Well, not really.
A devil worshiper who loves his own family, is it God in him that causes him to love his family and children or something that he desires to do himself?
A devil worshiper has compassion on a person who is hurt and helps that person, is it God in that person that caused that devil worshiper to help the other person?
You seem to not understand the concept of free will, which is without God or satan. Free will is the choice we make. God does not MAKE anyone do anything. satan does not MAKE anyone do anything. We choose who we will obey and who we will serve.
You say above if it is me that chooses to do good fruit, that makes me God. What then, if a devil worshiper chooses to do good fruit, that makes him God too? You do error not understanding the Truth.
Why would Jesus COMMAND us to "Love One Another" if Loving one another was something that He did in the first place? He COMMANDED us to Love One Another, because Jesus knows the Truth, we choose to either Love or to NOT Love. It is called Free Will.
If then i help that lady across the street, did i do that because God Made me do it? Did He force me to Love? i chose to help the lady across the Street, because the lady needed help across the street. i choose to give to charities, not because God makes me give to charities, but because they are in need of money that i have. i feed the hungry, not because God makes me, or forces, or causes, me to do that, i do that because they are hungry and i have the means to help them. But because i say i choose to do good things, you accuse me of being God? Seriously?
The Question is why are YOU choosing not to have good works? Know you not that it is written it is works that make Faith Perfect. But if i teach what Scriptures teach look how fast the stones are thrown by those who believe Faith ONLY is enough. All the while accusing me of teaching Works ONLY belief. Which i have NEVER done. i teach what Scriptures teach Faith + Works. They go hand in hand, not one without the other. But who will refuse to believe that? Why the Faith ONLY believers is who. And you can see how they fight against me, just read the things they say to me, and you can see plainly who is Loving who.
Who are they that will fight against {Faith + Works}? Works ONLY believers will fight against that because it includes Faith. Faith ONLY believers will fight against that because it includes Works. Neither Know or believe plain Scriptures.
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
According to this verse, HOW is Faith made perfect? By and through Works. Who will not believe this verse? Faith ONLY believers and also Works ONLY believers. Who does believe this Holy Scripture? Those who know that Faith and Works go hand in hand, not one without the other.
Faith ONLY believers are those branches grafted into the Good Tree, but has no Good fruits.
Works ONLY believers produce Many Good fruits but they are not attached to the Good Tree.
True Christian believers are those branches grafted into the Good Tree, and they produce much Good fruits unto the Lord. Who will disagree with that statement but those who believe Faith ONLY and also those who believe Works ONLY will not believe that verse, they will have to change that verse to mean something other than what it says, in order to hold on to their own belief what they THINK the TRUTH is. Woe to the Faith ONLY believers and Woe to the Works ONLY believers, Both of these are the Goats in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Read it, which one are you?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
sigh .. .. .. . .
How is it you have eyes and ears but still can't see nor hear? i have made it clear over and over again that Faith + Works go hand in hand, but from some reason you altogether fail to see the word Faith included in what i said.
i say and teach Faith and Works go hand in hand.
Then you say i am teaching Works only. If that were the case and the TRUTH, i would not be saying anything about Faith now would i?
If i say Faith and Works. You say and teach that i say Works ONLY. sigh.. . . .. . . .
If i made the word Faith bigger, would you then be able to see it?
Faith + Works = Salvation.
Somehow, i believe you will still think i am teaching Works ONLY. Sigh.. .. . .. .. . having eyes and ears, but can't see or hear what i am saying.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
What you say here is 100% True, and i have not said otherwise.
A person GETS SAVED by and Through Faith ONLY. This is what Scriptures teach and it is most certainly TRUE. Now lets talk about what a person MUST do once they GET SAVED by Faith ONLY, shall we?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
S
Sully
Guest
That is a conditional statement describing the state of a believer in his/her heart. Why are you trying to morph it into a condition of salvation?
Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
What i have said above neither condemns nor exalts myself in any way. i forgive you for the false accusation against me.
Tell me, is it a Godly thing to accuse without giving an example why you are accusing? i say that is of satan, would you not agree? Therefore if you accuse me exalting myself then quote one thing that i have said anywhere that does that. If you can then you have rightly judged me. But if you can't do that, and can't show where i have done that, then how is that not evil on your part?
What do you think i teach? Do you think in all that i teach on CC is trying to Get people SAVED? Do you think i am teaching to the unsaved trying to get them to become Saved? IN all that i teach it is to those who claim to be SAVED already. You say there is a difference between becoming Saved and what to do after you are Saved. What do you think i teach?
Getting Saved, requires Faith ONLY. This i have said and attest too. Being Saved (AFTER a person gets Saved) requires Faith + Works. This is what this generation refuses to believe or understand. Its as if they Get SAVED every single day. They do not understand the free gift is only given ONCE. To GET SAVED and the requirements thereof only happen ONCE, ONE TIME.
Every time i try to talk about what we are suppose to do once we ARE SAVED, is when people of this generation will talk about GETTING SAVED, as if it happens on a daily basis. Faith ONLY GETS A person Saved, But these people think Faith only EVERY SINGLE day thereafter. As if they are getting SAVED daily. i have said over and over again, even as you have said above. There is a difference from Getting Saved, and being SAVED. Which those who believe the Faith ONLY doctrine refuse to grasp the understanding thereof.
How many times do i say the same thing over and over again, before it is enough? Moving on.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
L
limey410
Guest
S
Sully
Guest
This demonstrates we are experiencing different things.
I am just sharing my heart, you are putting labels on it.
Jesus talked about communion with Him, being one with the Lord.
Love by its nature is empathetic, understanding another from the inside
out. How can anyone who knows God not just break, and see this world
is a tragic place, riven with individual greed and privilege while many have
absolute poverty of experiences and opportunity.
To some they see, to others it does not exist. God bless you, Amen.
S
Sully
Guest
Amen! From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is through faith and is NOT BY WORKS.
S
Sully
Guest
This verse has nothing to do about salvation but rewards on teachings. Context dc
Yah we know Calvinist use Ephesians out of context and filter the Bible through Ephesians. It doesn't destroy anything but in context support everything. I will be posting a long post soon once i get threw typing it. Explaining why i asked dc 4 questions earlier so that i can see if he was again being misleading or taking it out of context.
Well since your saying salvation and faith are the gifts of God. Let's look at Ephesians 2:8 in context. We see its obvious Ephesians 2 is all focused on grace and salvation. Really all of Ephesians is focused on grace. This should be one warning that Ephesians 2:8 may not be speaking on both faith and salvation as the gift. Paul had to include faith because part of how grace is to be given. But Paul was focusing on grace throughout the whole letter.
For by grace you are saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves; (it is) of God the gift.
The 2nd warning is given in the greek interlinear verse.
Grace and faith are both a noun, feminine, and singular.
Gift is a noun, neuter, and singular.
We have to first look and see that gift being neuter doesn't match feminine even though all three are singular.Only implying gift is matched to another word in the verse.
This is a demonstrative pronoun which is always followed by a noun This is neuter and singular which matches the following noun gift.
And so the gift is matched with this. But now the question is since this is singular and referring to one word or concept. But obviously, we can't know because grace and faith are feminine. So now we understand this must be referred to the concept of the subject at hand.
We have to study it in context to see is Paul speaking of at all in Ephesians about faith being the gift of God at any other point. In fact, he does not but is heavily focused on grace. So this is warning 3.
Warning four is seeing what the word gift is related to throughout the NT since the greek word in Ephesians 2:8 is used once. You do not have to go very far to findan example. In Ephesians 3:7
Ephesians 3:7New International Version (NIV)
7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power.
Romans 6:23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And so with all these clues pointing to gift being referred to a singular concept and in context, it is obvious what this concept is. The gift is referred to grace.
Nowlets move on to you saying faith is a spiritual gift. You are obviously thinking this is the same saving faith compared to spiritual gifts of faith and you believe in that is only given to a select few. Which you believe from the calvinist TULIP concept
Total Depravity:
Humankind has been utterly ruined by the Fall to the point that there is no good and no possibility for redemption anywhere in us. We merit and can merit nothing but wrath and destruction. This means that only a Sovereign God acting in Sovereignty can deliver us from an eternal destiny in Hell. There is absolutely nothing we can do ourselves to contribute to or take away from God's activity to save us.
Unconditional Election:
As such, God's decision to save us can be and is based on no conditions we can or could ever generate. God has chosen, based on God's own criteria, whom to save and whom not to save, long before we were ever born.
Limited Atonement:
God created the means to deliver us from the merited consequences of our total depravity through the death of Jesus, his Son, on the cross. On the cross, Jesus suffered the consequences of God's just wrath and judgment on behalf of all whom God had electedfor salvation, but only for these.
Irresistible Grace: Just as there is nothing humanity can to do change our depraved state, there is also nothing those who have been elect can do to resist the gracious initiative and power of God to bring them to salvation through what God had accomplished for them in the atonement.
Perseverance of the Saints: The result of all the above is that those whom God has elected to salvation and acted to save in the atonement and in the ongoing and irresistible work of the Spirit cannot but actually "persevere unto the end," that is, those who are elect cannot help but be faithful and thus experience the promised salvation.
Even though John 3:16 one verse out of many plainly says
John 3:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
16 “For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
A spiritual gift is given to people once they have received the Spirit and the Spirit distributes them
1 Corinthians 12:4-7New International Version (NIV)
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them.5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work.
7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
9 9 to another, faith by the same Spirit,
to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
This is obviously not the same saving faith since its distributed after receiving the Spirit. Obviously your confusing saving faith by making the Spiritual gift of faith that is only given to some with saving faith which is asked of all to have in order to inherit eternal life.
Faith to faith is obviously saying just as Paul says we persevere in faith unto the end. Faith to faith to faith as each day goes by the righteous will live by faith.
Romans 1:17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
17 For in it God’s righteousness is revealed from faith to faith,[a] just as it is written: The righteous will live by faith.
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Time to examine true faith will be more than words. A true faith will be an active faith. I just proved grace is a gift from God and the action of man must have faith in order to receive grace.
Romans 4Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor,[a] has found? 2 If Abraham was justified[b] by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.[c] 3 For what does the Scripture say?
Abraham believed God,
and it was credited to him for righteousness.
James 2:21-23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected. 23 So the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness,[a] and he was called God’s friend.
Another example of James being in agreement with Paul.
Hebrews 11:8-10Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed and went out to a place he was going to receive as an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he stayed as a foreigner in the land of promise, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, coheirs of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Faith is an action of man, a surrender in a belief that God's Words are true. And since you believe Gods Word to be true you act in obedience to the word and the Spirit. We are led by the Spirit not forced by the Spirit. Irresistible grace is unbiblical just as only the chosen few are given faith is unbiblical. God chose all and does not make some have faith and some not. Scripture telling us to believe, have faith, or remain faithful is redundant if grace is irresistible and faith is only given to some. Faith is the choice of man on how he reacts to the message of grace.
Irresistible Grace: Just as there is nothing humanity can to do change our depraved state, there is also nothing those who have been elect can do to resist the gracious initiative and power of God to bring them to salvation through what God had accomplished for them in the atonement.
Romans 6:16-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
16 Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone[a] as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey—either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred[b] to,
Surrender and obedience are not the selfish works, it's the love for our master. This is how good works and faith make for a true faith.
Perseverance of the Saints: The result of all the above is that those whom God has elected to salvation and acted to save in the atonement and in the ongoing and irresistible work of the Spirit cannot but actually "persevere unto the end," that is, those who are elect cannot help but be faithful and thus experience the promised salvation.
These verses below are just a glimpse of what it means to live in a faith to faith life as a Christian. True faith is held until it isn't so faith perseveres on faith to faith. And this obedience allows the Spirit to work in us and help us grow stronger in faith and growing in our spiritual walk. Which is so very vital so that when trials and tribulation come upon us we won't fall.
1 Corinthians 10:12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)12 So, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall.
1 Timothy 4:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
16 Pay close attention to your life and your teaching; persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Hebrews 6:11-12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
11 Now we want each of you to demonstrate the same diligence for the final realization of your hope, 12 so that you won’t become lazy but will be imitators of those who inherit the promises through faith and perseverance.
Revelation 14:12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
12 This demands the perseverance of the saints, who keep God’s commands and their faith in Jesus.”
1 Corinthians 9:23-25Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.
24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize. 25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away.
This next scripture you are taking out of context the Bible lays the foundation, I planted and Apollos watered, Bible planted and preachers watered, and so this is speaking to the church leaders who are in all honesty built their church from the right foundation but should be very cautious on what they teach from doctrines. Meaning they may work very hard for the Lord building on this foundation but may miss the mark by believing false doctrines and in the end, all his work will be revealed and tested. And he will be given rewards according to what he built or not according to what he built, but he will still be saved but it will be like someone who just barely escaped a fire.
1 Corinthians 3
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, and each has the role the Lord has given. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 Now the one planting and the one watering are one in purpose, and each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building.10 According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.
And so these verses are not about work and salvation so you can't even try to compare them even if one verse sounds good because that's taking it out of context. This section is on rewards. Every commentary will agree also.
I truly hope this helps you understand for this is the reason why I had quit typing posts to explain my belief because calvinistwontsee or listen. But I truly hope you do.
Romans 4Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Abraham Justified by Faith
4 What then can we say that Abraham, our physical ancestor,[a] has found? 2 If Abraham was justified[b] by works, he has something to brag about—but not before God.[c] 3 For what does the Scripture say?
Abraham believed God,
and it was credited to him for righteousness.
James 2:21-23Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
21 Wasn’t Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active together with his works, and by works, faith was perfected. 23 So the Scripture was fulfilled that says, Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness,[a] and he was called God’s friend.
Another example of James being in agreement with Paul.
Hebrews 11:8-10Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed and went out to a place he was going to receive as an inheritance. He went out, not knowing where he was going. 9By faith he stayed as a foreigner in the land of promise, living in tents with Isaac and Jacob, coheirs of the same promise. 10 For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
Faith is an action of man, a surrender in a belief that God's Words are true. And since you believe Gods Word to be true you act in obedience to the word and the Spirit. We are led by the Spirit not forced by the Spirit. Irresistible grace is unbiblical just as only the chosen few are given faith is unbiblical. God chose all and does not make some have faith and some not. Scripture telling us to believe, have faith, or remain faithful is redundant if grace is irresistible and faith is only given to some. Faith is the choice of man on how he reacts to the message of grace.
Irresistible Grace: Just as there is nothing humanity can to do change our depraved state, there is also nothing those who have been elect can do to resist the gracious initiative and power of God to bring them to salvation through what God had accomplished for them in the atonement.
Romans 6:16-17Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
16 Don’t you know that if you offer yourselves to someone[a] as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey—either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But thank God that, although you used to be slaves of sin, you obeyed from the heart that pattern of teaching you were transferred[b] to,
Surrender and obedience are not the selfish works, it's the love for our master. This is how good works and faith make for a true faith.
Perseverance of the Saints: The result of all the above is that those whom God has elected to salvation and acted to save in the atonement and in the ongoing and irresistible work of the Spirit cannot but actually "persevere unto the end," that is, those who are elect cannot help but be faithful and thus experience the promised salvation.
These verses below are just a glimpse of what it means to live in a faith to faith life as a Christian. True faith is held until it isn't so faith perseveres on faith to faith. And this obedience allows the Spirit to work in us and help us grow stronger in faith and growing in our spiritual walk. Which is so very vital so that when trials and tribulation come upon us we won't fall.
1 Corinthians 10:12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)12 So, whoever thinks he stands must be careful not to fall.
1 Timothy 4:16Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
16 Pay close attention to your life and your teaching; persevere in these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Hebrews 6:11-12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
11 Now we want each of you to demonstrate the same diligence for the final realization of your hope, 12 so that you won’t become lazy but will be imitators of those who inherit the promises through faith and perseverance.
Revelation 14:12Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
12 This demands the perseverance of the saints, who keep God’s commands and their faith in Jesus.”
1 Corinthians 9:23-25Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
23 Now I do all this because of the gospel, so I may become a partner in its benefits.
24 Don’t you know that the runners in a stadium all race, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way to win the prize. 25 Now everyone who competes exercises self-control in everything. However, they do it to receive a crown that will fade away, but we a crown that will never fade away.
This next scripture you are taking out of context the Bible lays the foundation, I planted and Apollos watered, Bible planted and preachers watered, and so this is speaking to the church leaders who are in all honesty built their church from the right foundation but should be very cautious on what they teach from doctrines. Meaning they may work very hard for the Lord building on this foundation but may miss the mark by believing false doctrines and in the end, all his work will be revealed and tested. And he will be given rewards according to what he built or not according to what he built, but he will still be saved but it will be like someone who just barely escaped a fire.
1 Corinthians 3
5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are servants through whom you believed, and each has the role the Lord has given. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. 8 Now the one planting and the one watering are one in purpose, and each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s coworkers. You are God’s field, God’s building.10 According to God’s grace that was given to me, I have laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, and another builds on it. But each one must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what has been laid down. That foundation is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on that foundation with gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will become obvious, for the day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire; the fire will test the quality of each one’s work. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned up, it will be lost, but he will be saved; yet it will be like an escape through fire.
And so these verses are not about work and salvation so you can't even try to compare them even if one verse sounds good because that's taking it out of context. This section is on rewards. Every commentary will agree also.
I truly hope this helps you understand for this is the reason why I had quit typing posts to explain my belief because calvinistwontsee or listen. But I truly hope you do.
I'm way ahead of you. There is just no getting through to you at all. I'm tired of listening to your nonsense and I'm also done wasting my time with you. Moving on.