Catholicism

[AllenW]

The fall of humanity took a dump, and out came Catholicism.

This type of rudeness does not represent Christianity.
What are you really?

 

[FranC]

No one has to answer for me. Struck a bad chord with you Fran? Don't take it personally. I speak from personal experience as to how much spiritual and emotional damage the Catholic Church has inflicted upon the masses.

I've ministered to thousands of Catholics who hate God, fear death and live in perpetual fear because of what they were taught by their priests. These people don't feel the way they do because they were taught love, grace and mercy in church, they feel this way because they were systemically overloaded with guilt, punishment, condemnation and damnation.

You can't argue with me about what I see every day regarding my Catholic patients. Thankfully some of them can be reached regarding God's love and grace, but very sadly some are so far detached from God they're unable to embrace the Truth. I pray God is merciful. And for the record, everyone with an opinion of God is a theologian.

Catholic patients?
Your a doctor or a therapist?
And you use the Language you use.

"§The fall of man took a ....
and out came the Catholic Church."

Really.

Why not go take a bible study in a Catholic Church and find out what they teach.
How old are your patients? 100?

Every Church does damage.
It helps most people.

I mean, really...
WHAT were they taught?
How come I wasn't taught this?

 

[Utah]

This type of rudeness does not represent Christianity.
What are you really?

I refer you to post 95. Read it good. Read it real good.

 

[AllenW]

I think everyone would agree with you, but I think it's because these are mostly platitudes. I mean, everyone - no matter their religion - would say their religion is true and I think Scripture is true. But to say the bible is
unchanging is simply not true. It has changed. To say we don't need anyone with any kind of scriptural or pastoral authority to teach us except for the Holy Spirit (and I know you didn't say this explicitly, but other have suggested it) is nuts. Of course we need learned guidance.

To say it's unchanged, I trust you already know that the gospel of Mark (largely agreed as the first gospel by a hundred years and written while some original witnesses were alive) was changed. It ended at 16:8. 16:9 through 20 INCLUDING DIRECT QUOTES BY CHRIST were added. They were added later to help assimilate the narratives of Matthew Luke and John. It was just made up.

Can you read Hebrew? Greek? Latin? You're trusting priests and ministers - and politicians - who were part of the King James council to interpret the Latin scripture to English. You're trusting others to interpret the Aramic to Greek or the Greek to Latin. I mean, I'm not saying the interpretation was wrong or uninspired- only that experts in languages did this and that it is still exegesis. It's still interpretation of what we consider to be truth and in some cases, an interpretation sparked by argument from a council and settled upon by James, a politician, himself.

Fortunately, imho, there are a number of unfaltering truths that have not been mismanaged over the years of scriptural history, however I am always open to interpretation, especially by learned experts with reasons "why" and "how" backed by scriptural language exegesis. Not so much by folks who claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. What the heck does that even mean? It's possible I guess, but I don't think the Holy Spirit speaks to one in one way and another in another. Especially as much as even the bible discussion page here suggests.

Take the verses of John 20:20-23 for instance. Many claim that Priests don't have the authority to remit sin. I read in 23 that Jesus specifically gave the authority to forgive sin to his apostles. We can argue that these verses mean that Christ was talking to His original apostles and that Christ didn't mean that this authority would extend to future apostles beyond them, but the Bible doesn't say that. You can call the Catholic a heretic for believing their Priest - their apostle to Christ - has the authority but you have no "scriptural truth" to back that with. This is just one example of probably many examples of how interpretations can, I guess, cloud the water. Basically I'm not sure if truth is so much relative as it is conditional.

So you are saying that some things in your Bible are not true.
Do you still read it?
You read just the truthful parts. right?
Can you teach us all the parts that are not true so we don't have to read them either?
Thanks.

 

[Utah]

Catholic patients?
Your a doctor or a therapist?
And you use the Language you use.

"§The fall of man took a ....
and out came the Catholic Church."

Really.

Why not go take a bible study in a Catholic Church and find out what they teach.
How old are your patients? 100?

Every Church does damage.
It helps most people.

I mean, really...
WHAT were they taught?
How come I wasn't taught this?

Your response is exactly why I didn't bother responding to you. Untold numbers of Catholics have completely walked away from God and that's okay, but say something disrespectful of the Catholic Church and you have a bird.

Well it's not okay with me that the Catholic Church has brought catastrophic harm to God's children, and you better believe I have an attitude about it. The sky is blue; that's reality. Don't like what I say? Don't read it. If you do read it, deal with it.

 

[FranC]

Apples and oranges. People forgive because it's Christ-like; priests "forgive" because apparently peoples' salvation hang in the balance. Thankfully the latter is not true.

I asked earier how John 20:21-22 could be explained.

When someone answers this they go to other scripture that says we are to confess our sins to each other. Sure. When we're seeking forgiveness.

But how does one explain John 20??

The Catholic Church has confession because of this passage above all Others.

The priest believes that God forgives the sin, he just declares it forgiven if the person is sorry for the sin.
It comforts most people to hear the priest absolve them of their sins. If this is what they need, who are we to keep this from them?

 

[FranC]

Your response is exactly why I didn't bother responding to you. Untold numbers of Catholics have completely walked away from God and that's okay, but say something disrespectful of the Catholic Church and you have a bird.

Well it's not okay with me that the Catholic Church has brought catastrophic harm to God's children, and you better believe I have an attitude about it. The sky is blue; that's reality. Don't like what I say? Don't read it. If you do read it, deal with it.

I am dealing with it.

Because YOU say it, does not make it true.

Do you suppose Calvinism causes any damage?

 

[PrynceNY]

This took some nerve on your part. Is that anything to say to anyone. What do you mean "some priest"? Priests give up their life and a family to do what they do. Would you be willing to do the same for your love for God? And if one doesn't follow your recipe for salvation, then you count them as lost? Did YOU write the N.T.? Were YOU with Jesus for 3 1/2 years? Do you suppose it's your DOCTRINE that saves you, or Jesus? If you think it's your doctrine, as it seems from your posts, then you better make REAL SURE you're following the correct doctrine or you're lost !! If you follow the Law, you will be judged by the Law, thus If you follow doctrine, you will be judged by your doctrine. Seems right.

If I were a priest i'd tell people go directly to God for forgiveness not man. Have a personal relationship with God. Nerve on my part? I hope his mother is with the Lord. But I will tell the truth regardless, saying hail marys and beads is something the father never taught to Moses nor is it something Christ ever taught to his disciples.

 

[AllenW]

Sorry to hear for your mother. I hope for her sake she got on her knees before God & asked for forgiveness & not rely on some priest.

???
Sorry to hear for her?
I hope I get to heaven as I know she has.

 

[AllenW]

The scriptures says nothing about praying hail marys or using rosary beads those are false doctrines. This is how we are to pray "Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.Thy kingdom come.Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" There is only one "Father" and he's in heaven.

I hope for your sake that when you die, you are as perfect as you think you are.
Hate to have accidently missed something?

 

[PrynceNY]

I hope for your sake that when you die, you are as perfect as you think you are. Hate to have accidently missed something?

I never proclaimed to be perfect, all glory to God for he deserves it. I will tell the truth & there are things the catholic church practice that does not please God. As I stated before I hope your mother is with the Lord & didn't practice those things

 

[AllenW]

I refer you to post 95. Read it good. Read it real good.

Yes, I read it.
Good points you've made.
The problem is you put yourself on the same level as them with your responses.
Try rising above them.
See the difference.

 

[prodigal]

That's not true.
Your judgment of a person's intelligence based on your own intelligence is false.
I know people who can recite the roman road to salvation, and one hour later will forget what it says and what it means until you tell them again.
God knows your heart regardless of what comes out of your mouth.

mathew 15:18

King James Bible
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

james 3:10

…9With the tongue we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth comeblessing and cursing. My brothers, this should notbe! 11Can both fresh water and bitter water flow from the same spring?…

 

[AllenW]

I never proclaimed to be perfect, all glory to God for he deserves it. I will tell the truth & there are things the catholic church practice that does not please God. As I stated before I hope your mother is with the Lord & didn't practice those things

You are a legalist and you don't see it.

 

[PrynceNY]

You are a legalist and you don't see it.

If catholics are practicing false doctrines & going to a man for forgiveness for their sins they are in trouble. It has nothing to do about whether you think someone is a "legalist" which im not.

 

[17Bees]

So you are saying that some things in your Bible are not true. No.
Do you still read it? Yes, every day.
You read just the truthful parts. right? That's correct.
Can you teach us all the parts that are not true so we don't have to read them either? Mark 16: 9-20 were added later and not by the author. I never said it was untrue, just changed.
Thanks. You're welcome.

ten characters

 

[FranC]

If I were a priest i'd tell people go directly to God for forgiveness not man. Have a personal relationship with God. Nerve on my part? I hope his mother is with the Lord. But I will tell the truth regardless, saying hail marys and beads is something the father never taught to Moses nor is it something Christ ever taught to his disciples.

See PNY
This is the problem:
You don't know what the RCC teaches.

If you'd try going to bible study there, you'd learn that they DO teach that a personal relationship with Jesus is necessary. They teach that He died to save us from death and for forgiveness of sins. As an atonement for us. To free us from the bond of slavery to satan since true freedom comes only from serving God.

Now, of course, if YOU were a priest, you'd believe what every other priest believes who studied 7 to 8 years to get to where they are. That Jesus was given authority to forgive sins by God Father, and He passed it on to the Apostles, and they were to pass it on to us. You think they couldn't pass it on? Then they couldn't pass on healing either, or speaking in tongues for that matter. That was a gift, but ALL was passed on up until this very day.

Since it's God forgiving the sin, which priests admit, why deny anyone their method of worship? What harm do you think it does? I'd be interested in knowing.

And, if someone is following what they were taught to follow to get to God, do you believe they won't be saved?
Is it Jesus that saves us, or is it our KNOWLEDGE that saves us?
Are we all gnostics??

Let's let Catholics worship how they see fit. It can't make God too angry to honor the mother of His only begotten Son.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus gave Mary no special honor In fact, He taught against it

 

[PrynceNY]

See PNY This is the problem: You don't know what the RCC teaches. If you'd try going to bible study there, you'd learn that they DO teach that a personal relationship with Jesus is necessary. They teach that He died to save us from death and for forgiveness of sins. As an atonement for us. To free us from the bond of slavery to satan since true freedom comes only from serving God. Now, of course, if YOU were a priest, you'd believe what every other priest believes who studied 7 to 8 years to get to where they are. That Jesus was given authority to forgive sins by God Father, and He passed it on to the Apostles, and they were to pass it on to us. You think they couldn't pass it on? Then they couldn't pass on healing either, or speaking in tongues for that matter. That was a gift, but ALL was passed on up until this very day. Since it's God forgiving the sin, which priests admit, why deny anyone their method of worship? What harm do you think it does? I'd be interested in knowing. And, if someone is following what they were taught to follow to get to God, do you believe they won't be saved? Is it Jesus that saves us, or is it our KNOWLEDGE that saves us? Are we all gnostics?? Let's let Catholics worship how they see fit. It can't make God too angry to honor the mother of His only begotten Son.

As the scriptures states " My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge ". Not one person on the earth has the authority to forgive sins. if priest actually admit it's god forgiving sins why not tell all members confess directly to god. If someone says for example catholics shouldn't pray hail marys and bow before idol statues & they ignore it they cannot plead ignorance on judgement day. Do you recall the scripture that states "Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the kingdom? If you decide to in your words let catholics worship how they want they can very well be the ones saying "Lord Lord" as well.

 

[FranC]

If catholics are practicing false doctrines & going to a man for forgiveness for their sins they are in trouble. It has nothing to do about whether you think someone is a "legalist" which im not.

Many here are legalists and don't even know it.
A legalist is like a Pharisee. They believed they had to follow rules and regulations to please God.
You know, getting saved just the right way, saying just the right prayers, worshipping just so, etc.

Someone who is NOT a legalist believes that JESUS is to be followed.
HOW doesn't really matter as long as they're doing their best and as long as they're following the two Great Commandments which cover all the other commandments.

Someone who says a person should not say the rosary is being a legalist.
Someone who understands that there's no harm is saying it and all Glory goes to God is a truly freed person.

BTW, the rosary was invented because people did not read or write and it tells the story of Christ.

His Birth & Presentation at the Temple
His Baptism, First Miracles, His Kingdom, The Transfiguration and the Eucharist
His Passion and Death
His Resurrection, Ascension, the Descent of the Holy Spirit