Originally Posted by PlainWord
As I said, forget about Revelation as its a complicated topic. Revelation employs highly figurative language which we don't need to discuss at this moment. I am speaking about the "Great Tribulation" as found in the Olivet. This "GT" is over!! [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Everything from Mat 24:1-26 happened in the first century. If you haven't read "War of the Jews" by Flavius Josephus, you really shouldn't be weighing in on this subject. Here's a link to it. Read it, then come back and challenge me. War of the Jews - Flavius Josephus
Morning PrynceNY,
I keep saying it, those like PlainWord who think that the tribulation/great tribulation has been completed have no understanding of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. What they also don't understand, is that time of great tribulation continues right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It is not until after the 7th bowl has been poured out that the Lord returns and the 1st seal hasn't even been opened.
The destruction of the temple in 70 AD pales greatly in reference to that time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning of creation, until now and never to be equaled again. And except those days were shortened no one would be left alive. It doesn't even come close!
That time of great tribulation will be fulfilled via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, about 50% of the earths population will have been killed and that within the first 3 1/2 years. No, they have no idea of the chaos and destruction that is coming and that upon the entire earth.
This has been mainly what's confusing and scaring me. There are so many different opinions over this, like how you said the tribulation will be fulfilled with the trumpets and bowls. But I've heard someone say before mankind will persecute believers for 7 years, Jesus returns, then everyone left stays in earth for Gods wrath. So now I don't know anything anymore!
Scared about the end times
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I comprehend it far more than you young man. Revelation was written in AD 96. The Great Tribulation ended in AD 70. Therefore John was not discussing the Great Tribulation of Israel. Again, if you haven't read "War of the Jews" you really need to read it before making a fool of yourself.
Originally Posted by PlainWord
Morning PrynceNY,
I keep saying it, those like PlainWord who think that the tribulation/great tribulation has been completed have no understanding of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath. What they also don't understand, is that time of great tribulation continues right up until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It is not until after the 7th bowl has been poured out that the Lord returns and the 1st seal hasn't even been opened.
The destruction of the temple in 70 AD pales greatly in reference to that time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen from the beginning of creation, until now and never to be equaled again. And except those days were shortened no one would be left alive. It doesn't even come close!
That time of great tribulation will be fulfilled via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. With just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, about 50% of the earths population will have been killed and that within the first 3 1/2 years. No, they have no idea of the chaos and destruction that is coming and that upon the entire earth.
LOL.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Who was told to flee again?
[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains...
What city was surrounded by armies? Again, who are told to flee?
[SUP]43 [/SUP]For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, [SUP]44 [/SUP]and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
When did the above happen? Whose visitation was not recognized? This is basic reading comprehension and a little knowledge of history which many appear to be lacking.
If in fact the great tribulation is already over wasn't Jesus supposed to return and create a new heaven and earth? And also what of the mark of the beast and the antichrist? as well as all the trumpets?
Try to separate what you've been taught in Church from what the Bible actually says. There is a "Man of Sin." There is no "AntiChrist" in the way you've heard. The Great Tribulation was divine wrath poured out on Israel for their wickedness and failure to accept their messiah. The teaching of this wrath to come IN THAT GENERATION is everywhere. John the Baptist was the first to predict it long before Jesus predicted it. Before John the Baptist predicted it, it was given to Daniel in Dan 9.
God gave His children 490 years (70 x 7 weeks) to repent and change their ways. They did not make an end of sins and they did not make reconciliation for their iniquity. Thus, the "prince of the people to come" (TITUS) left their city desolate with not one stone left upon the other, just as Jesus affirms ~467 years later.
Again, leave Revelation out of this for a moment and focus on the literal teachings. Jesus gathered His elect in 70 AD to a place called Pella. Look it up. Josephus discusses this.
The reign of Christ is ongoing. His kingdom is everlasting. Those alive and those dead believers are reigning in His kingdom RIGHT NOW. He is ruling the nations with a rod of iron RIGHT NOW. The new heavens and earth are yet future.
If we are not in the season of the great tribulation and all of this is as you say then what is next on the prophetic calendar and what season are we in right now?
S
Spokenpassage
Guest
Don't be afraid, you are already in the last days, we all have been since the ascension of Jesus. Do you remember when the apostle Peter got up to preach at Pentecost after a pouring of the Holy Spirit? Remember that he quoted prophet Joel, "And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams" (Acts 2:17). These things were happening before their eyes and in the days of the apostles.
The apostle John mentions the "last hour" in his first epistle, "Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). But then he continues to talk about these antichrists by the next verse, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." There have been many cults, many apostates, many heresies that have been produced since this time. It shows us we are in the last hour.
Even the apostle Paul mentions the last days in the second letter to Timothy, "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power" (2 Tim. 3:1-5). But what does he say to Timothy right after this? "Avoid such people."
Have you read any history of Caesar Nero? He did some really horrific things to the Church in the first century. Fed is to lions, pitches us and burned us on crosses to light up his garden parks, etc. How about the Iniquisitions? Roman Catholicism went out to eradicate the "heretic" that were known to be Protestants and anyone else that did not agree with their false system. Do we not see this going on in our day in Syria and Iraq, Christians being persecuted? Not just there, but in India and North Korea and other countries. These are the days...
We are in the season of Grace. It is what many call "the Millennium" but they wrongly think it involves Christ visibly reigning on earth in a new man-made temple with Satan "chained up." In reality, Christ reigns on this throne in Heaven in the spiritual realm. He reigns with the souls in Heaven and with the believers (us) on earth. We are all collectively in the "Kingdom of God." Whether dead or alive, He is with us. He reigns over the nations with a "rod of iron." He blesses (rains on) the good nations and punishes (withholds blessings - rain) from the bad nations. This is why pagan nations are mostly poor and in turmoil and Christian nations are rich and mostly stable.
Next up, the "1,000 years" (figuratively for a long period of time) ends and Satan is allowed to once again deceive the nations. Personally, I think we could be in this period now. Jerusalem is surrounded by Gog and her allies. God sends fire down to wipe them out.