With another new year, maybe someone new looking in will know of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are some who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language to try to explain the missing 3rd night, which would have to be the case with a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. But in order to legitimately say that it was employing common, idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language, one would have to know of other instances where a daytime or a night time was predicted to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise.
Three Days and Three Nights
- Thread starter rstrats
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Hi rstrats,
So I see you don't believe the Scripture in Matthew 27:
Quote: 62 On the next day, (Thursday) which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,
63 saying, "Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’
64 Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first."
65 Pilate said to them, "You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how."
66 So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard.
--- So, until the third day (and night) the guard would be set and the tomb sealed, and it would be "Off Limits" for anyone for three days.
So if we trust that the Jews and Romans could both count the three days, --- then the tomb was sealed and the guard set from Thursday morning (after the frst night of Jesus in the tomb) till early Sunday morning.
So I see you don't believe the Scripture in Matthew 27:
Quote: 62 On the next day, (Thursday) which followed the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together to Pilate,
63 saying, "Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’
64 Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day, lest His disciples come by night and steal Him away, and say to the people, ‘He has risen from the dead.’ So the last deception will be worse than the first."
65 Pilate said to them, "You have a guard; go your way, make it as secure as you know how."
66 So they went and made the tomb secure, sealing the stone and setting the guard.
--- So, until the third day (and night) the guard would be set and the tomb sealed, and it would be "Off Limits" for anyone for three days.
So if we trust that the Jews and Romans could both count the three days, --- then the tomb was sealed and the guard set from Thursday morning (after the frst night of Jesus in the tomb) till early Sunday morning.
The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish idiomatic language. I am simply asking for examples to support that assertion; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.
This topic is essentially directed to those folks who say that it was common at the time to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. A 6th day crucifixion/first day resurrection would be one example. I'm simply looking for other examples to support it's commonality.
This topic is essentially directed to those folks who say that it was common at the time to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. A 6th day crucifixion/first day resurrection would be one example. I'm simply looking for other examples to support it's commonality.
That the expression "one day and one night" was an idiom employed by the Jews for indicating a day, even when only part of a day was indicated, can be seen also in the Old Testament.
For example, 1 Samuel says "For he had not eaten bread or dunk water for three days and three nights," and in the next verse, "My master left me behind... three days ago." (30:12,13)
Just as clearly, Genesis (42:17) shows this idiomatic usage. Joseph imprisoned his brothers for three days; in verse 18, he speaks to them and releases them, all on the third day. (2)
The phrase "after three days" and "on the third day," are not contradictory, either to each other or with Matthew (12:40), but simply idiomatic, interchangeable terms, clearly a common mode of Jewish expression. Another way to look at "three days and three nights" is to take into consideration the Jewish method of reckoning time. The Jewish writers have recorded in their commentaries on the Scriptures the principle governing the reckoning of time. Any part of a period was considered a full period. Any part of a day was reckoned as a complete day. The Babylonian Talmud (Jewish commentaries) relates that "The portion of a day is as the whole of it." ( Mishnah, Third Tractate, "B. Pesachim," p. 4a 3) The Jerusalem Talmud (so designated because it was written in Jerusalem) says, "We have a teaching, 'A day and a night are an Onah and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it.'"(Mishnah Tractate - j Shabbath chap 9 par 3) An Onah simply means, "a period of time."
After reading many of the posts, I not only feel a tad bit more ignorant today (Today - March 31, 2017, 8.47AM USA Arizona time, where one day is 24 hours, which begins at the first immeasurable pass of time past midnight and ends 24 hours later at the following midnight.), but I am also more thankful.
I'm thankful that this is not a salvation issue. If I had to know the specific days (and nights) Jesus' body was in the tomb, I'd be doomed.
But I like the thread.
I'm thankful that this is not a salvation issue. If I had to know the specific days (and nights) Jesus' body was in the tomb, I'd be doomed.
But I like the thread.
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I am interested in this thread, for I have been in study of the Three days and Three nights. Not clear on the matter. Confusing. But this has good info: Apologetics Press - “The First Day of the Week”
It really does not matter one iota what anyone says about the common use of jewish idiomatic beliefs - the Bible is very clear that everything in connection with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection was
according to scripture. What more proof does anyone want that no jewish idioms can be applied in this case. 1Cor 15v3,4.
according to scripture. What more proof does anyone want that no jewish idioms can be applied in this case. 1Cor 15v3,4.
I wish you would give it a rest friend, it's been going on for so long. You have got scripture telling you it all happened 'according to scripture'...what does it matter what anyone says about jewish idioms ???
It just looks as if you don't trust scripture to quote scripture...God has given you the answer...twice !
It just looks as if you don't trust scripture to quote scripture...God has given you the answer...twice !
beta,
re: "You have got scripture telling you it all happened 'according to scripture'..."
That would be an issue for a different topic.
re: "God has given you the answer...twice !"
I haven't seen those answers. I wonder if you might point out the posts which provide examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur?
re: "You have got scripture telling you it all happened 'according to scripture'..."
That would be an issue for a different topic.
re: "God has given you the answer...twice !"
I haven't seen those answers. I wonder if you might point out the posts which provide examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur?
TraySir,
re: " Confusing. But this has good info: Apologetics Press - 'The First Day of the Week'"
I'm afraid I don't find where your link shows examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. What do you have in mind?
re: " Confusing. But this has good info: Apologetics Press - 'The First Day of the Week'"
I'm afraid I don't find where your link shows examples where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur. What do you have in mind?
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Jesus predicted He would be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights as Jonah was in the belly of the fish 3 days and 3 nights....there is no mention of an ''unspecified time'...each night part and each day-part are 12 hours long, scripture is not vague about it. So if we use scripture to work out Jesus prediction you can not arrive at an UNspecified time each to their own reckoning....scripture gives you 6x12 hours - period, no matter what people say or think.
You are being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word and persistantly seeking some kind of answer among/from people...going on for years now even on other forums. I can not understand your reason for doing this.
You are being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word and persistantly seeking some kind of answer among/from people...going on for years now even on other forums. I can not understand your reason for doing this.
Guess you just want to prove Jesus wrong and yourself right. Jesus said 12 hours because He was removing uncertainty and guesswork that would cloud the issue of His death, burial and resurrection. Christians are no better than the Jews when it comes to believing Jesus and upholding His Word. That is already clearly demonstrated at their rejection of the Sabbath day.
LOL now we know that you are a legalist.
For your information Jesus did not say '12 hours' in English, he said dodeka hora which does not mean 12 hours.
ὥρα
hōra
ho'-rah
Apparently a primary word; meaning - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.
They did not use 60 minute hours in Palestine.
For your information Jesus did not say '12 hours' in English, he said dodeka hora which does not mean 12 hours.
ὥρα
hōra
ho'-rah
Apparently a primary word; meaning - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.
They did not use 60 minute hours in Palestine.