fruit and works.

[dcontroversal]

Jesus said a cup of cold water in his name would not go unnoticed and or without a due reward. Jesus said that if you do it to one of these the least of my brethren you have done it unto me.....a simple act of kindness or helping in time of need, feeding a destitute poor person, visiting the sick, doing right by your neighbor etc........

Many, like the Pharisees, will place great stock in these big, open, easily seen acts of men and women....a simple, behind the scene show of faith carries way more weight with Jesus...........

 

[wsblind]

Matthew 7:15-17 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

[SUP]17 [/SUP]"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.


To be accurate Jesus was talking about how to identify false prophets. False prophets are those that "seem to mimic " the words of the Lord but these words are not true. What kind of fruit does these words bring in a person's life?

When a supposed preacher comes with words saying anything that is contrary to what Christ has done by His finished work on the cross and resurrection - what does this bring in a person's life? What is the fruit of their words?


Does it bring arrogance and abusive behavior, malice and the slandering of others? Does it insult others and de-mean them? Does it try to "lord it over your faith?" by their superior knowledge and human scholarship? Does it bring condemnation to others? This is the fruit of a false prophet in the midst.

They could be genuine Christians too and not true false prophets but just under the deception of the enemy and his deceitfulness or they could not even be true believers in Christ. I'll leave that judgment in the hands of the Lord who knows all people's hearts.

Exactly. And they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Maybe expound a bit for us?

So a lot of the wolves even have their arrogance hidden,their pride hidden, and watching their lives would convince most of us that they are Christians. So if they have their act cleaned up and have learned to be moral,nice, good, sweet and even claim they are working for Jesus.

What fruit do we look for to tell if they are wolves in SHEEPS clothing.

 

[resurrection33]

New American Standard Bible
"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?

What do you specifically look for to know them by their fruits?

If we are to know them by their fruits. What are the fruits you look for to discern the truth?

I think a better test is whether or not they stand by the Lord's commandments. The Lord made it clear that homosexuality is a sin (Lev. 18:22). How many of our government and church leaders now tell us that if we stand by this commandment, we are evil?

 

[FreeNChrist]

1 Samuel 16:7 - "But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The Lord does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”

 

[wsblind]

Examine all things through the word of God.

Gods word is a mirror not a magnifying glass.

Examine self not others. Others will show themselves forth as believers or pretenders. Allow God to reveal as He chooses.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Grace777 was the first to bring up the context of the verse.

I agree with your post Roger. But the context of the verse is false prophets in SHEEPS clothing. So it is fruit we are to be watching for and discerning. If they are acting like sheep(and some are very,very good at it) what do we really look for then to discern them for their true colors?

 

[wsblind]

I think a better test is whether or not they stand by the Lord's commandments. The Lord made it clear that homosexuality is a sin (Lev. 18:22). How many of our government and church leaders now tell us that if we stand by this commandment, we are evil?

A false teacher will not be overtly sinning and will be following the law. The are going to ACT like sheep.

How do you discern a wolf who is acting like a sheep?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Exactly. And they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Maybe expound a bit for us?

So a lot of the wolves even have their arrogance hidden,their pride hidden, and watching their lives would convince most of us that they are Christians. So if they have their act cleaned up and have learned to be moral,nice, good, sweet and even claim they are working for Jesus.

What fruit do we look for to tell if they are wolves in SHEEPS clothing.

For me, I see more if they're putting on a show and either haven't met God, or a little stuck in works and outside of cup, (or are very young spiritually)by how they act when someone steps on their toes or talks to them roughly or arrogantly. Or by how they act when something doesn't go off exactly as planned, but then that's what I said in my post when you asked for everyday examples. We'll wait for your unveiling.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I'm actually hoping you have something that I don't know to help me. The only way I've found is to see bad fruit creep in.

 

[wsblind]

I'm actually hoping you have something that I don't know to help me. The only way I've found is to see bad fruit creep in.

I am asking you folks. I am just beginning to see that we can't watch for overt actions. That these wolves ACT like sheep.

Satan ACTS as a angel of light. And he is a master deceiver. So what he does on the outside and how he ACTS is going to fool us.

So what fruit do we discern?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have noted that it is a human thing that can be controlled to a very high degree to watch our face in front of others. But I have also noted that even the most determined man cannot hide a two second window in which his face shows his inner thoughts and feelings. It could be a flutter of the eyes toward a rolling of the eyes that he gets under his control two seconds in before it turns to an actual and complete rolling. Or it could be a slight downturn of the mouth, then it's hidden as quickly as possible so no one knows what was said made you angry or impatient. We are more cued in to reading these things than we are aware of. We have even adapted it to the internet with emoticons to try to show by a face what our feeling is.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

And it's interesting to note that when you catch it and say something like: I've made you impatient, they will deny it. But I don't know why you deny it when it would be a simple matter to say, hmm...yes, I was feeling some impatience, I'm sorry. Go on, I'm listening. Why would you try to cover it?

 

[notuptome]

Grace777 was the first to bring up the context of the verse.

I agree with your post Roger. But the context of the verse is false prophets in SHEEPS clothing. So it is fruit we are to be watching for and discerning. If they are acting like sheep(and some are very,very good at it) what do we really look for then to discern them for their true colors?

Judgment is always to be left in Gods hands. Workers cannot separate the tares from the wheat but God in the harvest separates them without losing a single grain of wheat.

Get so busy taking care of yourself for Gods glory that you do not have time to worry about who is and who is not sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think the covering of it is...because we know somewhere deep inside that we are doing a wrong thing. Like, wanting to speak our thought and wanting them to be done and be silent while we speak (self regard, seeking our own.) Or because we know anger is murder and so we try to cover up what we somehow know is wrong or is not supposed to be how we act in our heart.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Judgment is always to be left in Gods hands. Workers cannot separate the tares from the wheat but God in the harvest separates them without losing a single grain of wheat.

Get so busy taking care of yourself for Gods glory that you do not have time to worry about who is and who is not sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes. And G7, in his good post, said that at the end too. Somewhere toward the last of his post if I recall. God judges, leave it to Him is what he said (my paraphrase of G7 ).

 

[wsblind]

Judgment is always to be left in Gods hands. Workers cannot separate the tares from the wheat but God in the harvest separates them without losing a single grain of wheat.

Get so busy taking care of yourself for Gods glory that you do not have time to worry about who is and who is not sheep.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This isn't about judging someone's salvation or not. It's about wolves(believers can be wolves) in sheeps clothing. and their fruit.

maybe a question can help?

You will go to any church and be taught? Or are there certain fruits you look for? What fruit do you look for to stay in that church?

 

[Grace777x70]

Exactly. And they are wolves in sheeps clothing. Maybe expound a bit for us?

So a lot of the wolves even have their arrogance hidden,their pride hidden, and watching their lives would convince most of us that they are Christians. So if they have their act cleaned up and have learned to be moral,nice, good, sweet and even claim they are working for Jesus.

What fruit do we look for to tell if they are wolves in SHEEPS clothing.

I believe it is the fruit of their "words" that we can see and judge. What does it bring forth in our lives if we believe their message?

One fruit is that they bite and devour with their words of condemnation, trying to shame and bring guilt onto others. Name-calling and abusive behavior with insults is a clear example of walking after the flesh of which true false prophets and true believers can do.

They love to try to "lord it over the faith " of others by their "superior knowledge" and rely on their human scholarship to be-little you if you don't agree with their view of doctrine and others in their group that believe the same way as they do.

I believe that some believers in Christ can "act" like wolves because they are deceived by the subtleness of satan's belief system of "doing to get" and thus preach and teach his message of works-based mindset and beliefs. There are others that are wolves and not born-again but only God knows the heart of man.

I have written about this a few times.

I agree that some people are definitely false prophets on purpose and others are just deceived and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and "in their own minds" are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[wsblind]

I believe it is the fruit of their "words" that we can see and judge. What does it bring forth in our lives if we believe their message?

One fruit is that they bite and devour with their words of condemnation, trying to shame and bring guilt onto others. Name-calling and abusive behavior with insults is a clear example of walking after the flesh of which true false prophets and true believers can do.

They love to try to "lord it over the faith " of others by their "superior knowledge" and rely on their human scholarship to be-little you if you don't agree with their view of doctrine and others in their group that believe the same way as they do.

I believe that some believers in Christ can "act" like wolves because they are deceived by the subtleness of satan's belief system of "doing to get" and thus preach and teach his message of works-based mindset and beliefs. There are others that are wolves and not born-again but only God knows the heart of man.

I have written about this a few times.

I agree that some people are definitely false prophets on purpose and others are just deceived and it is so subtle too....sometimes it is hard to pick them out because they could just be a product of false teaching or an incomplete understanding of the gospel of the grace of Christ and "in their own minds" are just trying to "defend the faith".

None of us have complete truth in all things. Only God knows and can judge the difference of what is in the heart of people.

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below in 1 Peter 1:13 is what satan is really after...this is why he has false prophets/teachers in our midst.

He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance and human will-power instead of what Christ has done in His finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

This is where I stand. It's going to be their DOCTRINES(fruit) that we can discern the false teachers. Not judging their salvation or their eternal life. But their beliefs or doctrines and whether we stay away or go with them.



IMO, some are so slick and have the christian vocabulary down to a tee,have amazing self control and can ACT the part so well.......that only the mind of Christ can discern them. Our experience,intuition,feelings and our ability to "read" people will and can let us down.

Again, this not judging whether they are saved or not. It's discerning whether I RUN or stick around them.

 

[resurrection33]

A false teacher will not be overtly sinning and will be following the law. The are going to ACT like sheep.

How do you discern a wolf who is acting like a sheep?

I think they give themselves away, and the example I sited was a good one. They will sooner or later contradict what the Lord said, knowing that they make themselves popular by doing so.

 

[wsblind]

I think they give themselves away, and the example I sited was a good one. They will sooner or later contradict what the Lord said, knowing that they make themselves popular by doing so.

We ALL will sooner or later contradict what the Lord said.

But take someone who teaches the law for salvation. They are about the cleanest living person we know,has their tongue bridled, follows the law like no other, is very sincere,loving,kind,walks like Jesus and nary a speck in his life that we can "See" fault.

It is only going to be His mind(grace and knowledge) that clues us in that he is a false teacher.

 

[Grace777x70]

We ALL will sooner or later contradict what the Lord said.

But take someone who teaches the law for salvation. They are about the cleanest living person we know,has their tongue bridled, follows the law like no other, is very sincere,loving,kind,walks like Jesus and nary a speck in his life that we can "See" fault.

It is only going to be His mind(grace and knowledge) that clues us in that he is a false teacher.

Amen...that is why the people in Jesus' day marveled when He said that unless their righteousness exceeded the righteousness of the Pharisees - they will not inherit eternal life. The Pharisees were the cleanest living people.

We need to receive the gift of righteousness which is by grace through faith alone in Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection. This is a stumbling block to those that are depending on what they do or don't do as their righteousness instead of believing that Christ Himself makes them righteous apart from their own works.