Not By Works

[PeterJens]

WHERE sin ABOUNDS.........GRACE did MUCH MORE ABOUND......the woman taken in adultery....did she repent? Or did Jesus preemptively forgive her and not condemn her?

Future sin failure

Sin (past, present ) => Christ, the cross => forgiven => loving walk

Sin (past, present, future ) => Christ, the cross => forgiven => anything walk

Future sin has not happened and is unquantifiable. It is a commitment to rebellion.

Salvation is a commitment to commune with God and walk in righteousness.
It assumes a desire to not sin, and a commitment to walk these ways.

If one has no commitment to righteousness and against sin, how can you ever claim to
know Christ who knew no sin, or to be wanting to be His friend.

Forgiving future sin is against Gods nature. He forgives the wrong of the past because
of a commitment to not repeat it in the future.
Ezek 18:21 Ezek 18:24

This is Gods heart and has always been. To preach anything else is heresy.

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

The chosen are never accepted as sinners, but as faithful followers if they follow.

And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father(Christ).’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham(Christ). The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
“I baptize you with water for repentance. "
Matt 3:9-11

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:33-36

If you have not been set free from sin and are still a slave to it, the Son has not set you
free yet. Walk in His ways and follow Him and you will find this freedom.

When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.
Acts 3:25-26

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
Acts 3:19

Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people
Acts 3:23

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
2 Peter 3:14

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

So that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.
Phil 2:15

Set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Tim 4:12

 

[PeterJens]

your doctrine reeks of Anglicanism and is no more than Catholic dogma repackaged under your own banner and seal!

Just to say you believe in future sin forgiven would be enough.
I understand you cannot walk in a pleasing manner before the Lord even when washed clean,
anointed with the Holy Spirit and made into His Holy temple.

I am not condemning you, this is your faith declaration.
As my above post shows I do not believe this is the gospel or the promise of Christ.

The way of Jesus is a narrow path, and few find it. God bless you in however you choose
to walk. I would hope you follow Jesus's way, as in all honesty, there is no other path.

 

[PeterJens]

Every point you make is nothing more than opinion....YOU rarely quote scripture....what is tragic is one who does nothing more than quote opinion, embellish what those who disagree with you say and twist what we say....you have no credibility pal.....When You can make direct quotes, reference scripture that actually applies and be honest about what is said....then address and engage me...until then I am not going to waste my breath on you......serious!

The above is an odd appraisal because it is inaccurate.
Sometimes talking about issues that come from scripture is more useful.
The law of Christ is the refined law of Moses after the cross with Christs additions.

We all have to accept this because Jesus fulfilled the temple, the sacrificial law,
the priests, and became the cornerstone of the Kingdom here and in heaven.

Paul used the phrase in witnessing to gentiles.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1 Cor 9:21

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:2

So this is not my opinion this is the Word of God.

So dear reader, what defence is there from these people other than miss-representation
and slander, because they stand condemned by Gods word.

And if slander and malice have entered their hearts, how can they stand before the King.

 

[gb9]

The above is an odd appraisal because it is inaccurate.
Sometimes talking about issues that come from scripture is more useful.
The law of Christ is the refined law of Moses after the cross with Christs additions.

We all have to accept this because Jesus fulfilled the temple, the sacrificial law,
the priests, and became the cornerstone of the Kingdom here and in heaven.

Paul used the phrase in witnessing to gentiles.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1 Cor 9:21

Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
Gal 6:2

So this is not my opinion this is the Word of God.

So dear reader, what defence is there from these people other than miss-representation
and slander, because they stand condemned by Gods word.

And if slander and malice have entered their hearts, how can they stand before the King.

what you give us everyday is your opinion about the Word of God. not what the Bible really means, but the peterjens version of what it means.

like how you refuse to use the Biblical definition of sin so you can call ( wrongly ) yourself blameless.

 

[dcontroversal]

Future sin failure

Sin (past, present ) => Christ, the cross => forgiven => loving walk

Sin (past, present, future ) => Christ, the cross => forgiven => anything walk

Future sin has not happened and is unquantifiable. It is a commitment to rebellion.

Salvation is a commitment to commune with God and walk in righteousness.
It assumes a desire to not sin, and a commitment to walk these ways.

If one has no commitment to righteousness and against sin, how can you ever claim to
know Christ who knew no sin, or to be wanting to be His friend.

Forgiving future sin is against Gods nature. He forgives the wrong of the past because
of a commitment to not repeat it in the future.
Ezek 18:21 Ezek 18:24

This is Gods heart and has always been. To preach anything else is heresy.

But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.
Ezek 18:21-22

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

The chosen are never accepted as sinners, but as faithful followers if they follow.

And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father(Christ).’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham(Christ). The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
“I baptize you with water for repentance. "
Matt 3:9-11

They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:33-36

If you have not been set free from sin and are still a slave to it, the Son has not set you
free yet. Walk in His ways and follow Him and you will find this freedom.

When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.
Acts 3:25-26

Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord
Acts 3:19

Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people
Acts 3:23

You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed.
1 Thess 2:10

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
2 Peter 3:14

Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Cor 7:1

So that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.
Phil 2:15

Set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.
1 Tim 4:12

You can keep your Catholicized pseudo Anglican doctrine.....JESUS TOOK ALL SIN, PAST, PRESENT and FUTURE and paid the price on the cross.....you should open your eyes to IT IS FINISHED and what that means...PAID IN FULL...the DEBT HAS BEEN settled......and the RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST and BLOOD OF CHRIST is APPLIED eternally to all WHO believe....

 

[dcontroversal]

what you give us everyday is your opinion about the Word of God. not what the Bible really means, but the peterjens version of what it means.

like how you refuse to use the Biblical definition of sin so you can call ( wrongly ) yourself blameless.

YOU got that right brother......what a farce!

 

[dcontroversal]

Just to say you believe in future sin forgiven would be enough.
I understand you cannot walk in a pleasing manner before the Lord even when washed clean,
anointed with the Holy Spirit and made into His Holy temple.

I am not condemning you, this is your faith declaration.
As my above post shows I do not believe this is the gospel or the promise of Christ.

The way of Jesus is a narrow path, and few find it. God bless you in however you choose
to walk. I would hope you follow Jesus's way, as in all honesty, there is no other path.

The way is narrow.....and the minority believes if faith dia grace salvation....and in reality...you understand nothing pal!

 

[PeterJens]

The way is narrow.....and the minority believes if faith dia grace salvation....and in reality...you understand nothing pal!

If you do not want to face scripture then you have no foundation.

You realise this is not an argument on a christian web site, but a spiritual reality
that determines your future and whole foundation of your life.

I am shocked at your disregard of clear teaching, but then you confirm the emotional
feeling you have from your teachers is greater than the teaching of the Holy Spirit and
His word. But God bless you, and may you find the truth in Christ, Amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

Re: Not By Works
Quote Originally Posted by dcontroversal

I have not seen ONE who believes the BIBLICAL stance on salvation reject that WORKS are a RESULT of salvation one already POSSESES by FAITH.....and EVEN creation PROVES that stance........

FAITH plus WORKS for salvation is a lie from hell that has NO power to save...submit to GALATIANS 1, 3 pal.

FAITH ALONE saves...end of story

********************************
I have noticed that you know very well regarding the scriptures & I would sincerely appreciate if you could inform, add to my knowledge or explain to me( a nobody seeking the TRUTH) what these ff: verses actually imply:

New International Version 1984 Romans 8:24-25,29-30 FOR IN THIS HOPE WE WERE SAVED.. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. WHO HOPES FOR WHAT HE ALREADY HAS? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

The Greek version of HOPE (NEW TESTAMENT written in GREEK) expresses a confident expectation of something that is assured and guaranteed.....The English use falls way short of accurately describing the meaning of the Greek word translated hope.....and notice the past tense of justified (rendered innocent) and glorified....all based upon being (marked off) predestined to being conformed to his image......

Before the casting down of the world God predetermined that ALL who come to him through his SON by faith would be saved, justified, sanctified, glorified and conformed to the image of his son and sealed with the Holy Spirit of PROMISE which is the down payment of our eternal inheritance in Christ.....Salvation is a once for all act based upon faith....It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe....AFTER BIRTH (that which is born of SPIRIT is SPIRIT) there is a process of growth and maturity that leads to the sanctification of one's life in CHRIST.....We change outwardly because of the change inwardly...Romans 12:1-2 speaks to this...not being molded and shaped by this world but being transformed by the renewing of the mind.....we get the word Metamorphosis from the Greek word translated (TRANSFORMED)...I.E. we feed the NEW NATURE that has been born of GOD and through a process of growth and sanctification we change outwardly and become more and more like Christ.....this can be stunted by a lack of study and or application of the word of God!

 

[MadebyHim]

The sound of iron sharpening iron, just listen.

 

[MadebyHim]

can you hear it?

 

[PeterJens]

The way is narrow.....and the minority believes if faith dia grace salvation....and in reality...you understand nothing pal!

So your theology says, even when you sin, God only sees Christs righteousness, and
your sin is hidden from Him.

This is the same as saying as you drive the knife through Gods heart and destroy
all He stands for, He loves and forgives you, and says you are righteous and acceptable
to Him.

This is the meaning of hypocracy and lying to yourself. To hold such a doctrine is to
make a farce of holiness and defilement. It is so crazy a mass murderer is actually holy
and righteous as he wipes out his victims.

In a real sense this is get the do anything for free card from God, go off on a rampage
and who cares you are heavenward bound.

Please tell me how I am wrong.
And how I am not as much saved as you, no matter how good or bad I behave?
Or am I disqualified, because I do not believe in this freedom, I do not have real faith?

 

[PeterJens]

Hey how ironic.

For future sin forgiven and those who do not believe this are in unbelief, justice is
served by sinners letting rip while those following righteousness are doomed to the fire.

Sounds a little like the enemies dream of salvation and defeat of the Lord.

 

[Grace777x70]

The truth of the finished work of Christ will always be a stumbling block to us that operate from a humanistic/religious mindset. The renewing of our minds to what Christ has actually accomplished in His death and resurrection and that we too have died and rose with Him is necessary to growing up in Christ.

If we never grow up in Christ - we keep trying to accomplished what Christ has already done and in reality we are denying the Lord Himself.

 

[gb9]

Hey how ironic.

For future sin forgiven and those who do not believe this are in unbelief, justice is
served by sinners letting rip while those following righteousness are doomed to the fire.

Sounds a little like the enemies dream of salvation and defeat of the Lord.

no, here is the enemy's plan- set up a false religion that takes our focus off Christ and puts that focus on our ability to not sin.

that puts our salvation in our hands, not in God's through Christ. Titus 3.
and again, when you speak of being righteous, it has to be defined by the Biblical definition of sin, not by your beliefs about yourself.

 

[PeterJens]

no, here is the enemy's plan- set up a false religion that takes our focus off Christ and puts that focus on our ability to not sin.

that puts our salvation in our hands, not in God's through Christ. Titus 3.
and again, when you speak of being righteous, it has to be defined by the Biblical definition of sin, not by your beliefs about yourself.

Jesus died and rose again for us to create a loving and caring community.

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
John 13:35

When we walk with Christ, in love, we are one with Christ, and people see Christ in us
as His Ambassadors.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
2 Cor 5:20

Through our example we show why Christ is the resurrection and the life.

The enemies attack is to deny Christs victory has the power to conquer sin
in the believer and to bring freedom. A defeated and hypocritical people are
meaningless and empty.

What is obvious to me who the enemy truly are, those who deny the cross
changes lives and they need to walk with an open heart. This is true across
all areas of church life, truth of the cleansing of the heart and making oneself
pure is what it means to see God.

If you are not pure, you do not see God or know how to walk in His ways.
I know by definition if you argue with this, your have purity issues which you
need to seek God over. It is not an argument just a spiritual reality.

 

[JIMBO43]

Jesus died and rose again for us to create a loving and caring community.

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.
John 13:35

When we walk with Christ, in love, we are one with Christ, and people see Christ in us
as His Ambassadors.

Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
2 Cor 5:20

Through our example we show why Christ is the resurrection and the life.

The enemies attack is to deny Christs victory has the power to conquer sin
in the believer and to bring freedom. A defeated and hypocritical people are
meaningless and empty.

What is obvious to me who the enemy truly are, those who deny the cross
changes lives and they need to walk with an open heart. This is true across
all areas of church life, truth of the cleansing of the heart and making oneself
pure is what it means to see God.

If you are not pure, you do not see God or know how to walk in His ways.
I know by definition if you argue with this, your have purity issues which you
need to seek God over. It is not an argument just a spiritual reality.

Your seariously gone in the head but never the less i can still love a nutjob.

What fascist party are you from and how big is your pedistool

 

[JIMBO43]

Im mr faith man now as Jesus said if yer have just the smallest of faith as tiny as a mustard seed your faith will grow. Now wheres my mirracle grow chuckle chuckle

 

[JIMBO43]

So your theology says, even when you sin, God only sees Christs righteousness, and
your sin is hidden from Him.

This is the same as saying as you drive the knife through Gods heart and destroy
all He stands for, He loves and forgives you, and says you are righteous and acceptable
to Him.

This is the meaning of hypocracy and lying to yourself. To hold such a doctrine is to
make a farce of holiness and defilement. It is so crazy a mass murderer is actually holy
and righteous as he wipes out his victims.

In a real sense this is get the do anything for free card from God, go off on a rampage
and who cares you are heavenward bound.

Please tell me how I am wrong.
And how I am not as much saved as you, no matter how good or bad I behave?
Or am I disqualified, because I do not believe in this freedom, I do not have real faith?

I just had a good splash of mirracle grow well actually it was white as snow dust from my purified flesh

 

[dcontroversal]

So your theology says, even when you sin, God only sees Christs righteousness, and
your sin is hidden from Him.

This is the same as saying as you drive the knife through Gods heart and destroy
all He stands for, He loves and forgives you, and says you are righteous and acceptable
to Him.

This is the meaning of hypocracy and lying to yourself. To hold such a doctrine is to
make a farce of holiness and defilement. It is so crazy a mass murderer is actually holy
and righteous as he wipes out his victims.

In a real sense this is get the do anything for free card from God, go off on a rampage
and who cares you are heavenward bound.

Please tell me how I am wrong.
And how I am not as much saved as you, no matter how good or bad I behave?
Or am I disqualified, because I do not believe in this freedom, I do not have real faith?

When I see the blood, I WILL PASS OVER YOU.....again---->take your Catholicized pseudo Anglican doctrine some place else.....!