Not By Works

[Zmouth]

Love the orb.....faith saves....end of story.....faith that saves will produce fruit....after a growth process....just like an apple tree is an apple tree from the moment it sprouts.....yet takes several years of growth to produce it's first piece of fruit.....notwithstanding BY SPROUTING (being born) it is an apple tree from that moment forward...........

Very true, I think that both sides are saying the same things in different ways sometimes, the tree analogy is pretty good.

I can also see it like having a job, some people show up for work and go through the motions and get their reward. Others give it all they got. And in such, I think those who are accused of pushing works in lieu of faith are not really saying that exactly, but rather are just trying to convey that if you love your job you will never look at it as being work.

 

[dcontroversal]

Very true, I think that both sides are saying the same things in different ways sometimes, the tree analogy is pretty good.

I can also see it like having a job, some people show up for work and go through the motions and get their reward. Others give it all they got. And in such, I think those who are accused of pushing works in lieu of faith are not really saying that exactly, but rather are just trying to convey that if you love your job you will never look at it as being work.

I hear what you are saying, but is also obvious that many say that faith and works are needed for salvation and both are not needed.....faith saves by itself.....and genuine faith that saves will produce at least on piece of fruit.........the only people that I argue with are those who will say works must be added to complete salvation......this is false and a gospel that is cursed Galatians 1 and 3..........

 

[dcontroversal]

Applying the Law onto Christians is applying it unlawfully.

Amen to this one......the law is for the lawless.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul said "I CAN DO ALL THINGS THRU CHRIST THAT STRENGTHENS ME".

In a nutshell, I can because "I AM "is on the inside..... not that He does what "I" want, but that I can do what "He" wants.

This is a good point...Thanks for posting it....

I AM is on the inside because we have been born of incorruptible SEED, SEALED with the Holy Spirit and rendered INNOCENT (justified) by the blood of Christ being applied by faith....even if we believe not after we are eternally saved HE ABIDES faithful because HE cannot deny himself..........

Amen....it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe....... NO WORKS mentioned

 

[JaumeJ]

You are not understanding what I am saying in my posts........I know the works are a result of the gift of faith. The Father draws us to Jesus Christ, Jesus does all for us, and the joy of salvation and the gift of fiath leads to good works.......works. I certainly hope no one here thinks anyone dreams up works from the mind! God bless you. You will never find that I have said works are for salvation, though I do know they have reward in heaven.

Again, may God bless you.

One of these days you will figure out that the salvation afforded to man is a once for all act of faith and the works that follow are a result of said faith...they do not embellish, add to or facilitate salvation....NO ONE is advocating disobedience to the word or a lack of service that results in fruit.....the blending of FAITH and WORKS FOR SALVATION is a gospel which has no power to save.....EVER!

 

[JaumeJ]

I am sorry if I am seeing and understanding some of the posts here in some other light than intended, but I do not post contrary to your declaration.3

It begins to appear that some people here are acting as sthough they are replying to posts of others saying the opposite of what was said so others will believe the posts as erroneous or even Satanic. Do no continue saying what I believe if you are not reading and understanding it in the first place..........thisis not an act of love, there fore it leaves no other determination than it is an act of hate, and hatred without cause is murder.

Sure..........does not change the fact that biblical salvation is based upon faith void of works.....!

 

[JaumeJ]

Now, after rsing fresh this morning I see your responses to what you say you have read of my posts are totally twisting what I have been posting. Some truth then a big twist. This should not be so..It seems all of them are so.

My statement implied that I agree with what you said and also that I fully understand that salvation is based upon faith void of works....nothing more nothing less......!

 

[dcontroversal]

I am sorry if I am seeing and understanding some of the posts here in some other light than intended, but I do not post contrary to your declaration.3

It begins to appear that some people here are acting as sthough they are replying to posts of others saying the opposite of what was said so others will believe the posts as erroneous or even Satanic. Do no continue saying what I believe if you are not reading and understanding it in the first place..........thisis not an act of love, there fore it leaves no other determination than it is an act of hate, and hatred without cause is murder.

Look, I have no clue what you are saying in this post.....the bible is clear and if you agree then we agree...if not then whatever....the bible teaches the following

a) Salvation is a once for all act based upon faith into the finished work of Christ void of any work or human effort
b) Salvation cannot be gained, maintained, kept, or facilitate by works (any WORK)
c) Salvation cannot be LOST and then regained by WORKS
d) Salvation, justification before God, sanctification and the Sealing of the HOLY SPIRIT are ALL based upon the finished work of Jesus being applied by FAITH void of any work or works of the law

END of STORY........

BEFORE MEN, the INVISIBLE FAITH that acquired our SALVATION can be seen by the fruit that we bear (JAMES)
BEFORE GOD we are rendered LEGALLY INNOCENT ad SAVED by BELIEVING into the FINISHED work of CHRIST void of any works (ROMANS)

IT pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE.......END OF STORY!

I need no long drawn out diatribe about what you believe concerning what I think or have said, and for sure to accuse of hatred is not biblical at all.......DO YOU AGREE with the above.....YES or NO!

 

[JaumeJ]

Were we playing golf you would be on par. God bless you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Were we playing golf you would be on par. God bless you.

I will take that as a yes......and I love golf.....used to play 27 holes a day as a kid (9 hole course) an 3 rounds a week at Long Hills (18 hole course) in Benton, Arkansas....par 72....by end of summer was shooting about 10-12 over......peace!

 

[garee]

Sure..........does not change the fact that biblical salvation is based upon faith void of works.....!

I would suggest based on works but not that of our own-selves. Faith is a work. When you see the word work, faith is what brings it into light .They cannot be separated .

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I would paraphrase the above in this way ; "This is the faith of God by which we can believe him whom he has sent."

 

[dcontroversal]

I would suggest based on works but not that of our own-selves. Faith is a work. When you see the word work, faith is what brings it into light .They cannot be separated .

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

I would paraphrase the above in this way ; "This is the faith of God by which we can believe him whom he has sent."

I would say our salvation is based upon the work of the Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Sealing of the Holy Spirit....it is not of our effort, our labor, toil, work etc.....

It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!

 

[PeterJens]

I would say our salvation is based upon the work of the Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Sealing of the Holy Spirit....it is not of our effort, our labor, toil, work etc.....

It pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe!

Now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
Col 1:22-23

Now Paul is arguing our hope is certain "if we continue in our faith"

A simple point is if we fail to continue we fall.

So salvation is not just dependent on Christ but also no us standing firm in Christ.

I suppose this is a dependency you dislike so much, so if you can do anything you
like and you are safe, then there is no dependency.

I found it amusing that if you add to Christs work, you then loose your salvation
because you have added to Christs work, so fallen into unbelief.

But let me just say I come to faith, trust Christ, and then get convinced I can
loose my salvation. Have I in effect lost my salvation because I have fallen
into unbelief which I did not previously have.

So this means it is impossible to loose your salvation from unbelief, so how do
people get condemned, if this is the only unforgivable sin?

 

[Grace777x70]

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....

It is called "a condition of the first class"..... Colossians 1:23 is a prime example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar



Sort of like this....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... "If" you are going to be at the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

 

[GODisLOVE7]

Our hope is certain in Christ because being in the faith is determined as fulfilled.

There are a lot of times in the original Greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is determined as fulfilled.....example

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei).

Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

Word Pictures in the New Testament. A. T. Robertson Greek Scholar



Sort of like this....you are going to the bank..and I say to you.... "If" you are going to be at the bank ( determined as already fulfilled )...get me $100 bucks.

I'll take a check too...

Re: Post - It's a pizza and unicorn kind of day!

 

[dcontroversal]

Now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.
Col 1:22-23

Now Paul is arguing our hope is certain "if we continue in our faith"

A simple point is if we fail to continue we fall.

So salvation is not just dependent on Christ but also no us standing firm in Christ.

I suppose this is a dependency you dislike so much, so if you can do anything you
like and you are safe, then there is no dependency.

I found it amusing that if you add to Christs work, you then loose your salvation
because you have added to Christs work, so fallen into unbelief.

But let me just say I come to faith, trust Christ, and then get convinced I can
loose my salvation. Have I in effect lost my salvation because I have fallen
into unbelief which I did not previously have.

So this means it is impossible to loose your salvation from unbelief, so how do
people get condemned, if this is the only unforgivable sin?

You need to open your eyes and pay attention to the bolded....our daily sanctification is a process of growth, maturity, failures and growth from such failures....

The bible is REPLETE with men who were faithful believers that fell into reproach and or sin that brought blemish and accusation....King David being one such man.....

You really should take your working for salvation to some other post, because it does not fly on this thread pal.....If salvation can be lost by sin then you have been saved, lost and saved and lost how any times in your life....that is redundant and the bible does not teach what you push.

The prodigal was a SON BY BIRTH through the WHOLE PROCESS......wake up...Salvation is eternal...JESUS said it was ETERNAL and anyone who states it is LOSABLE VOIDS the word eternal and or everlasting---> in doing so calls God a liar!

 

[JIMBO43]

You need to open your eyes and pay attention to the bolded....our daily sanctification is a process of growth, maturity, failures and growth from such failures....

The bible is REPLETE with men who were faithful believers that fell into reproach and or sin that brought blemish and accusation....King David being one such man.....

You really should take your working for salvation to some other post, because it does not fly on this thread pal.....If salvation can be lost by sin then you have been saved, lost and saved and lost how any times in your life....that is redundant and the bible does not teach what you push.

The prodigal was a SON BY BIRTH through the WHOLE PROCESS......wake up...Salvation is eternal...JESUS said it was ETERNAL and anyone who states it is LOSABLE VOIDS the word eternal and or everlasting---> in doing so calls God a liar!

Dont call God a liar and what exactly do you mean as this sounds like your taking Gods judgement and making it your own, im sure many have questioned what is written and many have give it to God and i bet many times God has herd the words said This cant be true can it. ? So would i be calling God a liar if i said God this cant be true can it,
I even bet that many have thought should i not question this word of God written in the bible do i except all that is written as the abdolute word of God ?
My belief is that why some may be God inspired scripture other scripture may well have come from someone who has been tricked by a demon SO IN MY VIEW IM CALLING SATAN A LIAR AS THE WORD OF SATAN IS QUITE EVIDENT IN THE BIBLE Such as its ok too have two wives its ok to kill infants its ok but yet God states in the old t to moses,, whoever sins against me will be blotted out of the book of life So who am i calling a liar now God or what is written by whoever.

Im searching my hardest to find the truth and while most roads in the bible lead to a good place some do not and theres more to it than the bible which a lot here base there whole life upon.
The message here is he who is easily offended suffers from vanity a deadly sin. and verry deadly to the point where you snare snarl destroy kill you name it.

I love the bible and the great comfort it has brought me from goodness but i also have had great turmoil excepting it as the absolute word of God in all of its context.

Even the the great priests of this world say the new testement is the absolute word of God and the old testement is not As God came down to talk to us To show what exactly ?? to show us how he really is a gentle caring loving person and Not someone who creates evil or even encourages it

 

[dcontroversal]

Dont call God a liar and what exactly do you mean as this sounds like your taking Gods judgement and making it your own, im sure many have questioned what is written and many have give it to God and i bet many times God has herd the words said This cant be true can it. ? So would i be calling God a liar if i said God this cant be true can it,
I even bet that many have thought should i not question this word of God written in the bible do i except all that is written as the abdolute word of God ?
My belief is that why some may be God inspired scripture other scripture may well have come from someone who has been tricked by a demon SO IN MY VIEW IM CALLING SATAN A LIAR AS THE WORD OF SATAN IS QUITE EVIDENT IN THE BIBLE Such as its ok too have two wives its ok to kill infants its ok but yet God states in the old t to moses,, whoever sins against me will be blotted out of the book of life So who am i calling a liar now God or what is written by whoever.

Im searching my hardest to find the truth and while most roads in the bible lead to a good place some do not and theres more to it than the bible which a lot here base there whole life upon.
The message here is he who is easily offended suffers from vanity a deadly sin. and verry deadly to the point where you snare snarl destroy kill you name it.

I love the bible and the great comfort it has brought me from goodness but i also have had great turmoil excepting it as the absolute word of God in all of its context.

Even the the great priests of this world say the new testement is the absolute word of God and the old testement is not As God came down to talk to us To show what exactly ?? to show us how he really is a gentle caring loving person and Not someone who creates evil or even encourages it

You should go back and read what I said before you imply something.....serious!

 

[dcontroversal]

Who here is stating we can do whatever we want!

Well, you know that because we believe in grace dia faith salvation void of any works (for salvation) that we automatically believe we can do as we please and the consequences mean nothing.........

So far from the truth........just an excuse they (the workers for) use so as to malign what we believe and justify their mindset!

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by Utah

Who here is stating we can do whatever we want!

Well, you know that because we believe in grace dia faith salvation void of any works (for salvation) that we automatically believe we can do as we please and the consequences mean nothing.........

So far from the truth........just an excuse they (the workers for) use so as to malign what we believe and justify their mindset!

I agree...that type of thinking will always come when the true gospel of the grace of God is preached. This is what makes God's grace open for being mis-understood and mis-represented.

When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?"

- if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by...which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.
The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.

We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.

The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7 and then how to walk that freedom out is in Chapter 8.