Tongues???

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hornetguy said:
Ben, that's harsh....

THAT'S the spirit of division that I detest. "If you don't believe in the same way I do, then you are somehow a 'lesser' believer" or "you should seek the Lord" as if we have never even FOUND the Lord.

You refuse to even CONSIDER that you might be wrong, at least partially. Anything other than YOUR viewpoint is simply not of Christ, and the salvation of that person should be publicly questioned.

VERY un-Christlike.
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I have stated clearly in other posts that such a position is not to question the validity of someone else's salvation by stating that, "it won't condemn them to Hell or anything." You've jumped to conclusions as to my intent. I am simply encouraging the person to seek the Lord on this matter because as it is they are espousing that many brethren are empowered by demons and their "power" is demonic. If the power and operation of their gifts are from God and they insist on it being sourced from the enemy, do you not think it decent to suggest they pray on it instead of continuing in borderline blasphemy?
 
BenFTW said:
I have stated clearly in other posts that such a position is not to question the validity of someone else's salvation by stating that, "it won't condemn them to Hell or anything." You've jumped to conclusions as to my intent. I am simply encouraging the person to seek the Lord on this matter because as it is they are espousing that many brethren are empowered by demons and their "power" is demonic. If the power and operation of their gifts are from God and they insist on it being sourced from the enemy, do you not think it decent to suggest they pray on it instead of continuing in borderline blasphemy?
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but I (and most cessationists) would think it's decent to warn ppl that engaging in this activity is blasphemy.
so we're both in a quandary I reckon.
 
BenFTW said:
I have stated clearly in other posts that such a position is not to question the validity of someone else's salvation by stating that, "it won't condemn them to Hell or anything." You've jumped to conclusions as to my intent. I am simply encouraging the person to seek the Lord on this matter because as it is they are espousing that many brethren are empowered by demons and their "power" is demonic. If the power and operation of their gifts are from God and they insist on it being sourced from the enemy, do you not think it decent to suggest they pray on it instead of continuing in borderline blasphemy?
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Ben I posted 3 videos....all tongues with interpretation

between 5-14 minutes long. even a sampling from them gives one a sense of what's happening.
would you automatically assume all the stuff in the videos is authentic?
how do you go about discovering falsehood - is their any false stuff going on your world?
 
zone said:
but I (and most cessationists) would think it's decent to warn ppl that engaging in this activity is blasphemy.
so we're both in a quandary I reckon.
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No quandary. By their fruits you will know them. Again, and respectfully, I point to your lack of experience. If you actually witnessed the gifts in genuine expression you could not come away espousing their source from anything (demonic) but God, and Him alone. To suggest it blasphemy to operate in gifts of the Spirit is a position that is formed in ignorance. Ignorance being a lack of experience with the true and genuine manifestation.
 
BenFTW said:
No quandary. By their fruits you will know them. Again, and respectfully, I point to your lack of experience. If you actually witnessed the gifts in genuine expression you could not come away espousing their source from anything (demonic) but God, and Him alone. To suggest it blasphemy to operate in gifts of the Spirit is a position that is formed in ignorance. Ignorance being a lack of experience with the true and genuine manifestation.
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I have been in and stayed in two different churches with all that activity.
over a combined period of months or intense activity.
I was directly impacted.
I have seen it all, and experienced all the sensations.
all of them.
so I know what I'm talking about.
I know personally.
 
BenFTW said:
To suggest it blasphemy to operate in gifts of the Spirit is a position that is formed in ignorance. Ignorance being a lack of experience with the true and genuine manifestation.
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see, you have simply labeled your behavior and that of your friends as 'gifts of the Spirit ".
just calling it all "gifts of the Spirit " doesn't make it so.
and in fact it is not.
 
zone said:
I have been in and stayed in two different churches with all that activity.
over a combined period of months or intense activity.
I was directly impacted.
I have seen it all, and experienced all the sensations.
all of them.
so I know what I'm talking about.
I know personally.
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Tell me about your experience. When did you have the revelation that it was all demonic? Why are you so opposed to it? Were you hurt or abused in some way in those churches? Please, share your testimony.
 
BenFTW said:
Tell me about your experience. When did you have the revelation that it was all demonic? Why are you so opposed to it? Were you hurt or abused in some way in those churches? Please, share your testimony.
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it's rather involved....to do justice to the topic I'd have to summarize a lot.
I won't have the energy to go through it today, but I will asap (I want you to know that I know).

in a nutshell:

a small independent non-denom church founded by original Toronto Airport people, and a bapti-costal church influenced by Toronto "Blessing" stuff (also had a few members from original airport experience).

hands laid on me

3 weeks prayer and fasting, 3 months til I knew it was alllllllllll wroooooooooong.
later
 
zone said:
it's rather involved....to do justice to the topic I'd have to summarize a lot.
I won't have the energy to go through it today, but I will asap (I want you to know that I know).

in a nutshell:

a small independent non-denom church founded by original Toronto Airport people, and a bapti-costal church influenced by Toronto "Blessing" stuff (also had a few members from original airport experience).

hands laid on me

3 weeks prayer and fasting, 3 months til I knew it was alllllllllll wroooooooooong.
later
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What happened during those three weeks of prayer and fasting that led you to that conclusion?
 
zone said:
[video=youtube;jv7TJXKMVsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv7TJXKMVsA[/video]

Holy Spirit Breaks Out With Tongue and Interpretation

Published on Oct 3, 2013

During worship the Holy Ghost fell in the room. It resulted in a prophetic song, a tongue and an interpretation.

....

- music/buildup until 3:44

- interpreter arrives.

(what are the strange body movements? does anyone know?)

- music for interpretation

(does God speak this way?)

- 6:00 describing a "vision"

- 7:00 closing prayer (?) music

.....

is the activity in this video from God?
is yes, how do you know
if not, how can you tell?
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1 Corinthians 14:40 (ESV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] But all things should be done decently and in order.

1 Corinthians 14:34 (ESV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:28 (YLT)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God.


Since the COMMANDS in 1 Cor. 14, validate that ONLY A MAN was given the genuine TONGUES and ONLY A MAN was given the genuine gift of Interpretations, women doing any of it would send up the red flags of a counterfeit. GOD DOES NOT BLESS WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE. That video is more PROOF that what is going on in the CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT; is NOT OF GOD, and more proof that it is only a copy of the PAGAN TONGUES like that of the worship of APOLLO, one of the Dionysian Mystery Religions.

QUOTE: The Dionysian Mysteries were a ritual of ancient Greece and Rome which used intoxicants and other trance-inducing techniques (like dance and music) to remove inhibitions and social constraints, liberating the individual. . .

From what appears to be a NEW AGE site, I found this quote:
"Movement In Worship specialise in releasing people into freedom to worship creatively with the whole of who they are; body, mind and spirit."
 
VCO said:
1 Corinthians 14:40 (ESV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] But all things should be done decently and in order.

1 Corinthians 14:34 (ESV)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.

1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

1 Corinthians 14:28 (YLT)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] and if there may be no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and to himself let him speak, and to God.


Since the COMMANDS in 1 Cor. 14, validate that ONLY A MAN was given the genuine TONGUES and ONLY A MAN was given the genuine gift of Interpretations, women doing any of it would send up the red flags of a counterfeit. GOD DOES NOT BLESS WILLFUL DISOBEDIENCE. That video is more PROOF that what is going on in the CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT; is NOT OF GOD, and more proof that it is only a copy of the PAGAN TONGUES like that of the worship of APOLLO, one of the Dionysian Mystery Religions.

QUOTE: The Dionysian Mysteries were a ritual of ancient Greece and Rome which used intoxicants and other trance-inducing techniques (like dance and music) to remove inhibitions and social constraints, liberating the individual. . .

From what appears to be a NEW AGE site, I found this quote:
"Movement In Worship specialise in releasing people into freedom to worship creatively with the whole of who they are; body, mind and spirit."
Click to expand...

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BenFTW said:
What happened during those three weeks of prayer and fasting that led you to that conclusion?
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I prayed and fasted...around the clock for 3 weeks....then launched immediately into bible study and research (all topics/doctrines) for 3 months around the clock. (I still study daily and have since then - 20+ years ago)

concurrent with the learning curve was experiential stuff .
 
zone said:
I prayed and fasted...around the clock for 3 weeks....then launched immediately into bible study and research (all topics/doctrines) for 3 months around the clock. (I still study daily and have since then - 20+ years ago)

concurrent with the learning curve was experiential stuff .
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I didn't realize it took that much effort to deny the truth. LOL :cool:
 
zone said:
sorry. if I brush off a post or part of one it's because it's probably too boring to spend much time on.
I think that's what's happened with some of yours.
if you could repost the idea/question i'll look again:)
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ore you probably don't know enough to understand it lol you can look back and try again, don't struggle to hard :P
 
zone said:
which is why I didn't spend an hour typing it out.

I PROPHESIED your response would be such.
it came to pass:cool:
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I'm sorry I couldn't resist. haha No but seriously, I'd like to hear you out. Honestly.
 
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