Tongues???
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You do not understand, do you? The Jews required a sign for ONE REASON ONLY. That was how GOD validated anything that became part of our BIBLES and spoken by the Prophets, confirming that the PROPHET spoke what was coming from GOD. THEREFORE, a Jew who even suspected that Jesus was the Messiah, would HAVE TO SEE the writers of the N.T. doing the same kind of miracle signs to confirm the WORD, or they would automatically REJECT IT as coming from a FALSE PROPHET.
1 Corinthians 14:21 (NRSV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] In the law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people; yet even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
Acts 2:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] There were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] When this sound occurred, a crowd came together and was confused because each one heard them speaking in his own language.
Mark 16:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word by the accompanying signs.
ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THAT IS BEING DONE TODAY IN THE CHARISMATIC and PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES. It is NOT THE SAME THING, it therefore is a Counterfeit.
zone,
I'm not sure what the point of your last post was in relation to mind. The text says nothing about Timothy being a 'pastor', though he was to teach. Paul told Timothy to 'do the work of an evangelist.' And they co-wrote an epistle with Silas in which they referred to themselves as 'as apostles of Christ.' Timothy did itinerant work with Paul. He'd stay behind in churches. He apparently appointed the local bishops.
I wonder why you left out the verse I referenced,
In the 1800's, the epistles to Timothy and Titus began to be called 'the pastorals.' Some intros to the book adds in the title that Timothy was a 'bishop.' The text doesn't say this. There is church tradition that he later became the bishop, I think it was of Ephesus. It seems like a few centuries later that people would claim that apostles an biblical figures who spent time in those cities were the cities bishops. During the era we are reading about, he was working along side Paul in his apostolic work, being sent to places and staying there a while, rather than the traditional settled bishop role, or the anachronistic modern pastor role.
I wonder why you left out the verse I referenced,
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
If you think it is deceptive to say that Timothy 'received' a prophecy just because the word 'receive' isn't there, that's rather odd. If Timothy received a gift through prophecy, it is quite likely he accepted that prophecy as well. There is no evidence Timothy ran like Jonah. He seems to have embraced his calling, even if Paul encouraged him to stir up a gift on one occasion.
The fact that a spiritual gift can be received through prophecy is an important one, and yet another example of why the gift of prophecy is important for the church, and served other functions in addition to producing the scriptures.
I'm not sure what the point of your last post was in relation to mind. The text says nothing about Timothy being a 'pastor', though he was to teach. Paul told Timothy to 'do the work of an evangelist.' And they co-wrote an epistle with Silas in which they referred to themselves as 'as apostles of Christ.' Timothy did itinerant work with Paul. He'd stay behind in churches. He apparently appointed the local bishops.
I wonder why you left out the verse I referenced,
In the 1800's, the epistles to Timothy and Titus began to be called 'the pastorals.' Some intros to the book adds in the title that Timothy was a 'bishop.' The text doesn't say this. There is church tradition that he later became the bishop, I think it was of Ephesus. It seems like a few centuries later that people would claim that apostles an biblical figures who spent time in those cities were the cities bishops. During the era we are reading about, he was working along side Paul in his apostolic work, being sent to places and staying there a while, rather than the traditional settled bishop role, or the anachronistic modern pastor role.
I wonder why you left out the verse I referenced,
This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
If you think it is deceptive to say that Timothy 'received' a prophecy just because the word 'receive' isn't there, that's rather odd. If Timothy received a gift through prophecy, it is quite likely he accepted that prophecy as well. There is no evidence Timothy ran like Jonah. He seems to have embraced his calling, even if Paul encouraged him to stir up a gift on one occasion.
The fact that a spiritual gift can be received through prophecy is an important one, and yet another example of why the gift of prophecy is important for the church, and served other functions in addition to producing the scriptures.
okay, though not named as a pastor, he's taking down instructions concerning bishops/overseers and other teachers.
he's given explicit teachings on caring for the sheep - his letters being among the "pastoral epistles".
but I was addressing what he rec'd at the laying on of hands.
it would be his office.
it doesn't say he rec'd prophecies....you were misleading on that
he's given explicit teachings on caring for the sheep - his letters being among the "pastoral epistles".
but I was addressing what he rec'd at the laying on of hands.
it would be his office.
it doesn't say he rec'd prophecies....you were misleading on that
The Bible does not talk about miracles confirming New Testament scripture. The signs confirmed the word preached. The same message preached elsewhere could be confirmed again. The word was even confirmed when deacons (presumably, though some say the seven were elders) preached it.
The sign Deuteronomy gave for prophets was a prophecy that came to pass, which explains why some Jews would ask Jesus for a sign right after He fed the 5,000.
As far as miracles go, certain Old Testament prophets did miracles, like Moses, Elijah, and Elisha. There is no evidence that most of the prophets did miracles. Though the people may have considered some of them as validated because their words came to pass. But actually, for much of their history, the Hebrews rejected the true prophets and follow false prophets, including representatives of false gods.
Keep reading. If an unbeliever or uninstructed comes into your assembly and all speak in tongues, will he not say that you are mad. So we see a fulfillment in this situation. He won't hear God speak through these 'strange tongues.' For all that, he won't hear the Lord, like the passage predicts, and the sign is fulfilled.
I found someone else from history who pointed this out, calling the sign an 'accusation of the unbelievers.'
“They spoke with foreign languages (and not those of their native land); and the wonder was great, a language spoken by those who had not learned it. And the sign is to them that believe not, and not to them that believe, that it may be an accusation of the unbelievers, as it is written, ‘With other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and not even so will they listen to Me says the Lord”‘ (Isa 28:11, 1 Co 14:22). —St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 41, XV)
from
What Is “Speaking In Tongues?” – Patristics
Yes, that happened, and it is great that it happened. Praise God. I Corinthians 14 tells how the gift operated in their church when it says that when one speaks in tongues 'no man understandeth him.' Paul said in that you are zealous for spiritual gifts, seek to excel to the edification of the church. Therefore, let him who speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
How is there any room at all for interpreting tongues in your understanding of this? And if tongues were 'pagan' in Corinth, why would Paul want pagan utterances interpreted for the church to edify it? How would pagan utterances edify the church?
There are people who get healed in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, and even something occasionally may fit in the 'signs and wonders' category. There are people who minister healing to people on the streets and in soup kitchens as a part of evangelistic outreach. You can look up videos on YouTube if you want to research it, since there is a whole genre of video along those lines.
It's funny how you seem to act like you are omniscient, as if you think you know everything that is not going on in thousands or millions of churches around the world.
The sign Deuteronomy gave for prophets was a prophecy that came to pass, which explains why some Jews would ask Jesus for a sign right after He fed the 5,000.
As far as miracles go, certain Old Testament prophets did miracles, like Moses, Elijah, and Elisha. There is no evidence that most of the prophets did miracles. Though the people may have considered some of them as validated because their words came to pass. But actually, for much of their history, the Hebrews rejected the true prophets and follow false prophets, including representatives of false gods.
Keep reading. If an unbeliever or uninstructed comes into your assembly and all speak in tongues, will he not say that you are mad. So we see a fulfillment in this situation. He won't hear God speak through these 'strange tongues.' For all that, he won't hear the Lord, like the passage predicts, and the sign is fulfilled.
I found someone else from history who pointed this out, calling the sign an 'accusation of the unbelievers.'
“They spoke with foreign languages (and not those of their native land); and the wonder was great, a language spoken by those who had not learned it. And the sign is to them that believe not, and not to them that believe, that it may be an accusation of the unbelievers, as it is written, ‘With other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people, and not even so will they listen to Me says the Lord”‘ (Isa 28:11, 1 Co 14:22). —St. Gregory the Theologian (Oration 41, XV)
from
What Is “Speaking In Tongues?” – Patristics
Yes, that happened, and it is great that it happened. Praise God. I Corinthians 14 tells how the gift operated in their church when it says that when one speaks in tongues 'no man understandeth him.' Paul said in that you are zealous for spiritual gifts, seek to excel to the edification of the church. Therefore, let him who speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
How is there any room at all for interpreting tongues in your understanding of this? And if tongues were 'pagan' in Corinth, why would Paul want pagan utterances interpreted for the church to edify it? How would pagan utterances edify the church?
There are people who get healed in Pentecostal and Charismatic churches, and even something occasionally may fit in the 'signs and wonders' category. There are people who minister healing to people on the streets and in soup kitchens as a part of evangelistic outreach. You can look up videos on YouTube if you want to research it, since there is a whole genre of video along those lines.
It's funny how you seem to act like you are omniscient, as if you think you know everything that is not going on in thousands or millions of churches around the world.
'Pastoral epistles' is just a late label put on it. He was doing the itinerant ministry like Paul, not the local church bishop role. He was apparently appointing the elders/bishops.
No, you are just nitpicking over the word received. If he heard prophecies and accepted what they said, he 'received' a prophecy. I'm writing in English, but not every phrase is an exact quote from the Bible. Why would Paul remind him of the prophecies and tell him to fight a good warfare by those prophecies if he hadn't received them? Do you think Timothy disobeyed Paul's instructions?
No, you are just nitpicking over the word received. If he heard prophecies and accepted what they said, he 'received' a prophecy. I'm writing in English, but not every phrase is an exact quote from the Bible. Why would Paul remind him of the prophecies and tell him to fight a good warfare by those prophecies if he hadn't received them? Do you think Timothy disobeyed Paul's instructions?
Matthew 23
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
In Matthew, the latter verse is written after the one you quoted.
How do we respond to these two verses? We beware of false prophets, and we accept the true ones. We accept the true teachers, and we are aware that there are false ones (not directly addressed in these passage of course, but it's the same principle.)
We don't assume all prophets are false. We realize some are true and some are false. We stick with what Jesus taught.
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
In Matthew, the latter verse is written after the one you quoted.
How do we respond to these two verses? We beware of false prophets, and we accept the true ones. We accept the true teachers, and we are aware that there are false ones (not directly addressed in these passage of course, but it's the same principle.)
We don't assume all prophets are false. We realize some are true and some are false. We stick with what Jesus taught.
You are so sure that you have an infallible, 1,000% lock on the truth that you are willing to slander and blaspheme in direct violation of scripture? Ballsy move, Mav. And incredibly foolish.
This is PRECISELY the reason God did not perform a miracle in your mother's hospice.
I'm so tired of foolish people and their heresies.
Thank God for the ignore button.
Buhbye
This is PRECISELY the reason God did not perform a miracle in your mother's hospice.
I'm so tired of foolish people and their heresies.
Thank God for the ignore button.
Buhbye
[video=youtube;jv7TJXKMVsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv7TJXKMVsA[/video]
Holy Spirit Breaks Out With Tongue and Interpretation
Published on Oct 3, 2013
During worship the Holy Ghost fell in the room. It resulted in a prophetic song, a tongue and an interpretation.
....
- music/buildup until 3:44
- interpreter arrives.
(what are the strange body movements? does anyone know?)
- music for interpretation
(does God speak this way?)
- 6:00 describing a "vision"
- 7:00 closing prayer (?) music
.....
is the activity in this video from God?
is yes, how do you know
if not, how can you tell?
Holy Spirit Breaks Out With Tongue and Interpretation
Published on Oct 3, 2013
During worship the Holy Ghost fell in the room. It resulted in a prophetic song, a tongue and an interpretation.
....
- music/buildup until 3:44
- interpreter arrives.
(what are the strange body movements? does anyone know?)
- music for interpretation
(does God speak this way?)
- 6:00 describing a "vision"
- 7:00 closing prayer (?) music
.....
is the activity in this video from God?
is yes, how do you know
if not, how can you tell?
only if you can do a better job than the above
and btw thats a great way to look ignorant when you cant even come up with a half decent response to defend your point of view...
so you have no love then...
and hey i don't fear for you, God will do everything to try and scratch through that hard heart of yours...
it's not my fault you can't read or understand truth....
and btw thats a great way to look ignorant when you cant even come up with a half decent response to defend your point of view...
and btw thats a great way to look ignorant when you cant even come up with a half decent response to defend your point of view...
I think that's what's happened with some of yours.
if you could repost the idea/question i'll look again
[video=youtube;lQHE8Hf_cCM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQHE8Hf_cCM[/video]
Tongues And Interpretation on Mother's Day 2
Published on May 15, 2014
This is a series of tongues and interpretations at the evening service of Faith Believing Word Church in Grove City, Ohio on Mother's Day, 2014. Gary is interpreting with various congregants delivering the tongue.
....
thoughts?
Tongues And Interpretation on Mother's Day 2
Published on May 15, 2014
This is a series of tongues and interpretations at the evening service of Faith Believing Word Church in Grove City, Ohio on Mother's Day, 2014. Gary is interpreting with various congregants delivering the tongue.
....
thoughts?