Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

PlainWord · Nov 6, 2016

But where does it say. "He comes before the Great Tribulation?" I mean specifically says BEFORE.

Quasar92 · Nov 6, 2016

2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church:

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine].

The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age.

In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below.

Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD.

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth].

Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given.

"He [The antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4.

The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed:
In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way [raptured]."

The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that:

In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21].

Hope this helps.

Quasar92

Whassup · Nov 6, 2016

Good luck during the great tribulation... if you believe you will have to go thru it instead of believing Jesus will rescue His Bride (Matthew 25:1-13), then you'll be counted among them that had no oil for their lamp and will be left behind by the Bridegroom (Jesus). Enjoy

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Revelation 3:10,11
Because you have kept the word of my patience, I also will keep you from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take your crown.

see John 14:15 - if you love me, keep My Word… don’t allow it to be choked out (Mark 4:13-20)

Also, If the rapture occurs in conjunction with the 2nd advent (when Jesus sets foot on the Mount of Olives), then why are the martyrs who refused to worship the beast and take his mark (Rev.20:4-5), not included in the rapture? Under the post trib scenario they would be part of the dead in Christ. They should be gone. Why the need for another resurrection? There is only one answer-the rapture occurs before they are martyred

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

*WHY is God telling us to comfort each other with these words if we aren’t going to be taken out of here before the bad part of the tribulation period??? (Hint - being happy about going thru the great tribulation most probably being murdered for your faith is not something we would be "comforting" others with, is it?)

Luke 17:26-30
And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

*This cannot be referring to Jesus coming at the end of the tribulation to start His 1000 year reign as thing will definitely not be business as usual during that time.

2 Peter 3:3-6
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished

PlainWord · Nov 7, 2016

The so-called, "Great Tribulation" concerns Israel. That's why those in Judea are told to flee. That's why in Luke 21 we are told, "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies." Luke also tells us not to enter Israel. Therefore the GT does not apply to the Church and there is no need to be raptured before it.

The Wrath of God comes in response to those who have been harming Israel. If we are worthy, we will be gathered by Christ when He returns and those escape the wrath to come.

PlainWord · Nov 7, 2016

Quasar,

You use a lot of rationalizing, and words like "allude" but you showed no passage which specifically states Christ returns before the attack upon Israel and appearance of the Man of Sin. The clear teaching is that He comes after these events.

Quasar92 · Nov 7, 2016

PlainWord said:

There is little to no use in providing you with any response to questions you ask about the prophetic Scriptures, PW. You not only know the answer from your own pre-conceived views, but criticize how I respond to you as well. The response I gave you as to where the Scriptures reveal the rapture of the Church taking place before the tribulation begins is accurate and fully supported by a large list of well known theologian men of God from every walk of Christian teachings, if you would like me to post it for you. You have a serious problem of an immediate rejection of Scriptural facts presented to you, from false views you have been brainwashed with, causing you to refuse acceptance of the Scriptural truths you have been shown.

Quasar92

Whassup · Nov 7, 2016

Jesus says it's coming upon the entire world, so all those that reject the Lord and refuse to accept His Christ... will be hit by trouble like this world has never seen nor will ever see again

Matthew 24:21,22
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Notice He said unless those days are shortened, NO flesh shall be saved?

Ultimately, the majority of mankind has rejected the Lord and sided with satan... and they'll pay the price.

abcdef · Nov 7, 2016

1 Cor 15:23-28,

1. 1st Resurrection.....Jesus

2. 2nd Resurrection....At His coming

3. Death destroyed

4. The kingdom is delivered up to the Father

5. Jesus submits to the Father

----

The trib, the mill, the rebellion of Magog R ch 20,

All must take place before Jesus comes.

Only After death is destroyed is the kingdom delivered up to the Father for the wedding R ch 21.

Quasar92 · Nov 7, 2016

abcdef said:

The prophetic chronological order of end times events as outlined in the Bible are as follows:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.

15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

Review the following account of what the Bible tells us will take place during the worldwide tribulation, in which the wrath of God is concurrent with it:

Zoe's Christian Q+A: Who will survive the Tribulation?

Quasar92

Ahwatukee · Nov 8, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Hello Quasar92, (This post is more directed to PW, since I have him on ignore.)

I totally agree with you in that, the great tribulation being the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. The wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will take place during the entire seven years, getting closer and more intense as it progresses (birth pains).

The last 3 1/2 years is called the great tribulation because, in addition to God's wrath, the middle of the seven years is when the abomination will be set up (Dan.9:27) and that man of lawlessness/antichirst will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God (2 Thes.2:4). The setting up of the abomination is what causes the desolation, which is when the woman/Israel flees out into the desert where she will be cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years (Mt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14). It is also during this last 3 1/2 years that the beast is given authority to make war and to conquer the saints (Gentile believers) until Christ returns (Rev.13:5-8).

The last seven years involves the entire earth as recorded in Dan.2:31-45. The statue in Nebuchadnezzar's dream represents all human government, with the Rock/Jesus falling on the feet of that last ten-toed government. The results being the statue/governments smashing to pieces like chaff on the threshing floor and blown away by the wind never to be found again (end of human government).

But again, we are dealing with someone who believes that the great tribulation is only 45 days long

PlainWord · Nov 8, 2016

Quasar92 said:

You keep invoking the views of men while I invoke the Plain Word of God. For instance:

Jesus says He returns "After the tribulation of those days." You say He comes Before

Paul teaches in 2 Thes 2, "Not to deceived by any means (that Christ comes after the Man of Sin)." You teach a doctrine that attempts to deceive us into thinking Christ comes before the Man of Sin.

You are right about one thing, we are never going to agree about this.

We are also never going to agree about this: I state that Christ's blood is sufficient for all time, for those before, during and after the Cross. You teach that His blood expires at His return and that He himself will build a new physical temple and re-institute the Law and animal sacrifices thereby ending Grace and voiding His Blood.

PlainWord · Nov 8, 2016

Quasar92 said:

Again, I invoke Scripture and you invoke someone's view of scripture. Who is this Zoe? What a complete idiot. Sorry, but this person has ZERO clue that John employed OT symbolism throughout Revelation. This Zoe sees 5.4 billion deaths from comets/asteroids, wars, waters turning to blood etc.

5.4 Billion out of 7 Billion people killed by all kinds of man made and natural disasters. What a complete blind fool, this Zoe.

How does Zoe explain this passage????

[SUP]37 [/SUP]But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage...

You see the wicked have no clue that Christ is about to return. Why? Because the earlier trumpets are not literal. Any one with half a brain would realize that there would not be all this celebrating and partying going on if 5.4B people were killed in a 7 year period.

The reason these people are partying is because they are Muslims (marked for judgment) who have attacked and obliterated Israel. They think they won. Then suddenly Christ returns and His army wipes them out (1/3 of man kind). This is the WRATH which comes after their GT against Israel.

Quasar92 · Nov 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

With you, PW, it is in one ear and out the other! My post 423 clearly delineates the Scriptural timing of the pre-trib rapture of the Church and provides the translation history of it. Paul tells us Jesus will come for everyone who belongs to Him, the Church, BEFORE the MoL/AC is revealed, in 2 Thess.2:3 and in 7-8. We will go with Jesus, from 1 Thess.4:17, to heaven, in Jn.14:2-3, 28, as seen symbolically in Rev.4:1-2. Where the marriage will take place in heaven, of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation takes place on earth. At the end of the tribulation, seven years later, Jesus will return to the earth in His SECOND COMING, WITH His Church, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, the righteous acts of the saints, white and clean, in His armies FROM HEAVEN, in Rev.19:14!

Your continual stubborn, dogmatic false views make liars out of the Bible, Jesus and His disciples, with your lack of understanding of the prophetic Scriptures! When a person has not been given the gift of prophecy after his views have been clearly refuted by the Scriptures, it is time to stop propagating false prophecy and start doing some listening!

Quasar92

PlainWord · Nov 8, 2016

I guess AHW blocked me. That's what people do when they cannot win on the merits. Actually AHW, I don't teach the 45 day Great Tribulation. Daniel and Jesus teach it. I am simply repeating what they say. Christ says the Great Tribulation of Israel begins at the Abomination of Desolation which starts 1,290 days after prayers cease (at the wailing wall). Then Daniel says at day 1,335 those left are blessed (with the return of Christ). Jesus says that those 45 days will be shortened so we cannot know the day or hour.

Once the A of D is seen, we know Christ will return within 45 days. You guys cannot get out of Daniel 9, that's why you are clueless thinking the GT lasts 3.5 years. Israel is too small with too small an army to last that long. Use some common sense for once.

PlainWord · Nov 8, 2016

That's what I do with lies.

Paul doesn't say anything of the sort. Quite the opposite.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God..

Paul says clearly that CHRIST WILL NOT COME UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED. PAUL ALSO SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TRYING TO DECEIVE US INTO THINKING THE OPPOSITE. Paul warns us about you and I will heed his warning.

You just gave yourself some great advise.

Quasar92 · Nov 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

Your above is a classic case and point of your swollen belief, that you know it all! You need only read Rev.6 through 19 to understand that Zoe's article does an excellent job of describing it! Read Zech.13:9 and you will see that out of 7 billion people on earth at the biggining of the tribulation, there will only be 2.33 billion left when the tribulation is over, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21!

Glowing your horn that you use Scripture while I use mans word is a flat out false statement! Capiche! Look my posts over again and show me where they are not completely supported by Scripture!

Quasar02

Quasar92 · Nov 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

That's what I do with lies.

Paul doesn't say anything of the sort. Quite the opposite.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God..

Paul says clearly that CHRIST WILL NOT COME UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED. PAUL ALSO SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TRYING TO DECEIVE US INTO THINKING THE OPPOSITE. Paul warns us about you and I will heed his warning.

You just gave yourself some great advise.

<SNIP>

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Nov 8, 2016

PlainWord said:

That's what I do with lies.

Paul doesn't say anything of the sort. Quite the opposite.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, [SUP]2 [/SUP]not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God..

Paul says clearly that CHRIST WILL NOT COME UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED. PAUL ALSO SAYS THAT THERE WILL BE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TRYING TO DECEIVE US INTO THINKING THE OPPOSITE. Paul warns us about you and I will heed his warning.

You just gave yourself some great advise.

You have again fully substantiated the description of your character!

Quasar92

Yet · Nov 8, 2016

Adstar said:

Like 21:36 Watch you therefore and pray always that you might be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that will come to pass....

Escape: ekfuego, gr. Fled out.

This must be a delusionary verse. An escapist verse, obviously a mis translation.

To say that all the christians just before His return must be beheaded is DELUSIONAL.

Has every christian since the birth of the ecclesia been beheaded? If not, why not? Are they not required to be beheaded according to the anti pre tribbers? Most have died in there beds with loved ones standing around praying and weeping.
My uncle and mother and dad were not beheaded, nor my aunt Virginia. Were they 'escapists'?

My uncle told me 'i just want to lay down, go to sleep and wake up in the arms of Jesus'. News flash: God answerd his prayer. That's exactly how he passed on to glory. He escaped an Isis blade. Imagine that.

What do you think about that...my uncle the escapist.

God's plans for individuals down through history are of the variety sort. You cannot lump everyone into one pattern of outcome.

So if you 'tribulation saint' believers are looking for the guillotines, enjoy. But don't be to disappointed if God takes it a different direction. I, for one, believe the words 'comfort one another with these words' is meaning something that is directed toward the last hour ecclesia.
Now if you guys are comforted by the thought of an islamic take over wih fema camps and losing your heads, women and children first, then by all means be 'comforted' with that 'blessed hope'. Please pray for me for i find no comfort or peace in imagining my grand and great grand babies be sliced up for fodder. I do know if that is His will, His power will be available.

I understand that thousands died by the tender mercies of the Roman Catholic seat of satan, but that does not equate to a one pattern of death fits all.

I see a cold back slidden portion of 'church', lacking natural affection, refusing reproof, headed into the tribulation, while those that refused compromise standing alone and rejected by modern pharisitical churches, 'coming into His chambers and the doors shut about them while His wrath is poured out', Isaiah 26:20.

I have already proven the silliness of thinking that every christian that ever lived had to follow the mandated pattern of torture and beheading.

So don't set your fate in stone is all i am saying.

Scriptures against the false pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

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