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If the Bible says that "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky", then that means one of two things:
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
which is why it is miraculous.
this is no sort of "proof" of any kind of cosmological model at all, Gary.
[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
now since i've answered, do me a favor and explain this:
also to mention,
according to flat earth math, the sun's distance at noon in NYC would be about 4,292 miles, and at midnight, about 6,042 miles.
so at midnight, with the sun at 32° in the sky, it would be only 29% more distant, so only 29% smaller, and 29% less bright.
so while you're being reasonable and faithful, understanding that perspective owing to distance causing sunsets is very stupid and indefensible as an argument for sunsets and sunrises, not being stupid yourself but accepting correction, and explaining why the sun isn't more than a third of the way up in the sky at midnight, please explain why it is dark at night.
thanks
according to flat earth math, the sun's distance at noon in NYC would be about 4,292 miles, and at midnight, about 6,042 miles.
so at midnight, with the sun at 32° in the sky, it would be only 29% more distant, so only 29% smaller, and 29% less bright.
so while you're being reasonable and faithful, understanding that perspective owing to distance causing sunsets is very stupid and indefensible as an argument for sunsets and sunrises, not being stupid yourself but accepting correction, and explaining why the sun isn't more than a third of the way up in the sky at midnight, please explain why it is dark at night.
thanks
"Globe Earthers -- please explain how the Earth instantly / suddenly "put the brakes on" - and, "came to a complete halt" - without destroying anything or killing anyone -- and then - [ about ] a day later - instantly / suddenly resumed to 1000+ MPH spinning - without destroying anything or killing anyone..."
( And don't come back with any CRAP about this being "figurative" or some such thing. This actually happened as the Bible tells it. )
"Do you believe what the Bible says?"
If the Bible says that "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky", then that means one of two things:
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
( And don't come back with any CRAP about this being "figurative" or some such thing. This actually happened as the Bible tells it. )
"Do you believe what the Bible says?"
If the Bible says that "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky", then that means one of two things:
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
Let me ask first, if you please, about Jesus walking on water. I have no doubt that He did but I can't explain it, though I have often wondered about it. Did God firm up the water somehow, or did he lighten Jesus, or was Jesus really "walking" on water in the first place?
If you can answer this according to a flat earth view, you can then claim the sun standing still to be proof of a flat earth. Otherwise, all we can both do is agree that sometimes God overrules the laws of physics.
Nevertheless, there are some speculations that one might suggest to integrate the sun standing still with a heliocentric solar system.
At some time in the past there was a tectonic plate shift that moved Antarctica from a temperate climate to where it is now. This is proven by the Peri Reis map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri_Reis_map
It could be that that event was the time spoken of in the Bible when the sun appeared to stand still. Some major continental shift event would also explain the sun going backwards ten steps (on a sundial? meaning ten minutes?). (2 Kings 20:1-11)
There is no doubt that there have been major continental shifts and the Peri Reis map pretty much proves that it happened within the memory of mankind.
Furthermore the Bible DOES NOT say the sun stopped IMMEDIATELY. It says it stopped. It could have taken a good long while for it to come to a halt. I think God can be graceful in the way He does things.
Joshua 10:11 Says that stones came down from heaven and killed more of the Amorites than did the Israelites. It seems quite reasonable to me to suggest that an asteroid hit the earth and caused the release of tension that had been building up along the continental plates and caused the continents to realign themselves with Antarctica being reassigned to the south pole.
During this realignment, the continental plate of which Israel is a part may have simply stopped rotating around the molten core of the earth for 20 some hours.
I think Jesus' walking on water is much harder to explain. But if Jesus walked on water and healed the sick and raised people from the dead, then apparently God can override the laws of nature.
Which is more likely to have occurred: that the continents shifted, or that God raised Jesus from the dead?
Whether the continents realigned or not during the long day of Joshua 10, I believe that God raised Jesus from the dead, and that He healed the sick and walked on water and feed thousands of people with next to nothing. Consequently, it is no problem to believe that however He did it, God caused the day to be extended as described in Joshua 10.
Flat earth adherents have believers all over the globe.
You know he's not going to respond intelligently. He is only going to criticize.
Why do we keep trying to reason with them. The more non-sense they post, the more I am convinced that they are not even individual trolls, but participants in a conspiracy to keep this FENS going.
From his language and attitude, he is likely only pretending to be a Christian so he can justify his posts.
Rational people do not act like that. I think an irrational person would behave quite differently, and probably not participate in this discussion at all. So that leaves some kind of troll.
SO WHY DO WE KEEP WASTING OUR TIME ON THIS THREAD?
I don't know either.
Why do we keep trying to reason with them. The more non-sense they post, the more I am convinced that they are not even individual trolls, but participants in a conspiracy to keep this FENS going.
From his language and attitude, he is likely only pretending to be a Christian so he can justify his posts.
Rational people do not act like that. I think an irrational person would behave quite differently, and probably not participate in this discussion at all. So that leaves some kind of troll.
SO WHY DO WE KEEP WASTING OUR TIME ON THIS THREAD?
I don't know either.
K
"Globe Earthers -- please explain how the Earth instantly / suddenly "put the brakes on" - and, "came to a complete halt" - without destroying anything or killing anyone -- and then - [ about ] a day later - instantly / suddenly resumed to 1000+ MPH spinning - without destroying anything or killing anyone..."
( And don't come back with any CRAP about this being "figurative" or some such thing. This actually happened as the Bible tells it. )
"Do you believe what the Bible says?"
If the Bible says that "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky", then that means one of two things:
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
( And don't come back with any CRAP about this being "figurative" or some such thing. This actually happened as the Bible tells it. )
"Do you believe what the Bible says?"
If the Bible says that "the sun stopped in the middle of the sky", then that means one of two things:
1) the sun stopped in the middle of the sky
2) the earth "put the brakes on" and "came to a complete halt" instantly / suddenly - and subsequently resumed instantly / suddenly
Which is more likely to have occurred?
Yet there are multitudes who attempt to 'splain it all away, according to man's "knowlege". Man's knowlege is confusion, ever morphing, to the point that athiests laugh at Christians, Christians who don't even believe themselves the Bible is true. What have they replaced the Bible with? (sudo-science)
K
This is Neil Degrasse Tyson "splaining what would happen if the earth stopped spinning. He said it would be disasterous!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7kubIYu69c
K
Posthuman, I remain peaceful and civil. As a daughter of the Most High, wife, mother, and grandmother, I cannot be involved in conversation where continuously I am called stupid and such. Why would I? My husband most certainly would not appreciate that. Our children have been taught to control their tongues and conduct themselves such as they would like to be treated themselves....it's why I cannot converse with you.
For as long as I've been here on CC, you have demonstrated your conduct and so have I. I've given you the last word on every occasion, this is no different. I agree to disagree, whether you do or not is your choice. Why make it personal? It's a topic for all.
To be blunt Posthuman...you are not the center of my attention. Go for pages on and on about it if you like. My posts are geared to the general reader, anyone who wishes to engage without guile.
For as long as I've been here on CC, you have demonstrated your conduct and so have I. I've given you the last word on every occasion, this is no different. I agree to disagree, whether you do or not is your choice. Why make it personal? It's a topic for all.
To be blunt Posthuman...you are not the center of my attention. Go for pages on and on about it if you like. My posts are geared to the general reader, anyone who wishes to engage without guile.
you asked questions.
i answered them.
you raised objections.
i answered them.
but you seem to be ignoring that. that's what i'm asking about now .. ?
why?
as far as "stupid" -- i was talking to Gary. based on exactly what scripture says: whoever hates correction is stupid. Gary's been ceaselessly corrected for years about this; you just apparently started buying into it recently.
G
Let's correct your math.
I believe you will find that my numbers more closely resemble the distance measurements on a Flat Earth map.
( Where did you get your numbers from -- a Globe Earth map? )
My actual numbers:
2,806 + 9,674 = 12,480
"But hey - what is ten miles? We can use your 2816 number - it is close enough. I will even assume your 49-degree angle - I did not look it up."
According to the Flat Earth model, this only works on the two equinox days of the year. From there, it changes as the sun's path gets away from the equator.
Do you testify - against your appearance before God on Judgment Day ( where-and-when you will have to give an account ) - that the photo below was taken on an equinox day?
( Otherwise, it is totally meaningless... )
"If that road is level, I would say that it looks like it is just a little bit less than twenty degrees..."
HAHAHA - just kidding -- the picture actually becomes a moot point when looked at from a Flat Earth model point-of-view --- especially since 'perspective' plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
Your "hours before midnight" excuse is not scientifically accurate - especially since 'perspective' plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
Show me a picture taken at midnight. ( And, of course - on an equinox day... )
'perspective' actually makes a very good argument - especially since it plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
If you are going to talk about something in a Flat Earth context, you need to keep it in a Flat Earth context. Mixing in some "convenient" Globe Earth stuff to try to "slant it in your favor" will only confuse the issue and make you look like somebody who is willing to use trickery to make your points. And, you really don't want people to think you are a-liar-and-a-deceiver or something...
I believe you will find that my numbers more closely resemble the distance measurements on a Flat Earth map.
( Where did you get your numbers from -- a Globe Earth map? )
My actual numbers:
2,806 + 9,674 = 12,480
"But hey - what is ten miles? We can use your 2816 number - it is close enough. I will even assume your 49-degree angle - I did not look it up."
According to the Flat Earth model, this only works on the two equinox days of the year. From there, it changes as the sun's path gets away from the equator.
Do you testify - against your appearance before God on Judgment Day ( where-and-when you will have to give an account ) - that the photo below was taken on an equinox day?
( Otherwise, it is totally meaningless... )
does this look like it's 32° above the horizon?
and that picture was taken hours before midnight.
what gives?
"perspective" explaining sunsets on a flat earth is a demonstrably stupid argument.
and that picture was taken hours before midnight.
what gives?
"perspective" explaining sunsets on a flat earth is a demonstrably stupid argument.
HAHAHA - just kidding -- the picture actually becomes a moot point when looked at from a Flat Earth model point-of-view --- especially since 'perspective' plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
Your "hours before midnight" excuse is not scientifically accurate - especially since 'perspective' plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
Show me a picture taken at midnight.
( And, of course - on an equinox day... )'perspective' actually makes a very good argument - especially since it plays such an important role in the appearance of the sun at sunset.
If you are going to talk about something in a Flat Earth context, you need to keep it in a Flat Earth context. Mixing in some "convenient" Globe Earth stuff to try to "slant it in your favor" will only confuse the issue and make you look like somebody who is willing to use trickery to make your points. And, you really don't want people to think you are a-liar-and-a-deceiver or something...
i used those numbers because the distances from NYC to the equator and to the pole have actually been measured.
your flat-earth numbers have just been made up.
and yes, i used the equinox apparent altitude of the sun, because it represents an average. at the summer solstice it is much higher, and at the winter solstice, equally lower -- at noon. but by the same token, at midnight, it should be higher by the same 25° or so in winter and lower in summer. in neither case does the math show that the sun should be at 0° or lower at midnight.
the height of the sun at about 3,000 miles is the accepted value ((by solving a right triangle as i did)) on flat-earth-wiki too.
but using the flat-earth-wiki number for the diameter of the earth, we find:
tan[SUP]-1[/SUP](3239/9434) = 19°
this is equally damning to your model; you need for the angle to be less than 1. in fact, you need it to be less than 0 -- a thing that is utterly impossible in the flat earth model -- because the sun actually visibly disappears over the horizon: every person in the world knows this. a fact which "perspective" cannot explain even if we completely ignore the fact that the sun doesn't shrink down to a dot but visibly sinks below the horizon bit by bit every night without appreciably changing scale.
i.e. reality contradicts you.
so the math says that at midnight, the sun in NYC should be at least as high in the sky as it at 9 or 10AM if the earth is flat.
and you claim that it's not a "spotlight" -- so as much as you rambled on, you failed to explain why it is dark at midnight. why the sun isn't clearly visible all night long.
that damns you further -- because the only way it can be dark is for the sun to have a shroud over it. but then the moon can't have phases, nor the planets. yet they do. so you need shadow objects that can't be detected and have very strange shapes and very strange orbits which so happen to be shaped and placed exactly so that the solar system appears to be heliocentric. i.e., you need God to have purposefully deceived us all with a planetary system that appears to be heliocentric but is actually not. you need God to have created a lie, so that what you believe can be true.
explain.
or accept correction.
let's look at a more extreme case on the proposed flat earth. the southern coast of Australia. from there, on the FEN map, at midnight the sun should be about 15,300 miles away.
at 3,239 miles up, we get for its apparent height in the sky at midnight:
tan[SUP]-1[/SUP](3239/15300) = 12°
12 degrees. that's not below zero at all. that's like 8am. the flat earth model says the sun never sets in Australia.
and this is all according to the "perspective" and "vanishing point" argument you keep touting, without ever understanding it, without ever actually doing the math -- an argument here demonstrated to be completely incapable of explaining what you keep claiming it explains.
accept correction.
don't be -- as the scripture puts it -- "stupid"
at 3,239 miles up, we get for its apparent height in the sky at midnight:
tan[SUP]-1[/SUP](3239/15300) = 12°
12 degrees. that's not below zero at all. that's like 8am. the flat earth model says the sun never sets in Australia.
and this is all according to the "perspective" and "vanishing point" argument you keep touting, without ever understanding it, without ever actually doing the math -- an argument here demonstrated to be completely incapable of explaining what you keep claiming it explains.
accept correction.
don't be -- as the scripture puts it -- "stupid"
let's look at the edge of the world on the flat earth map. the farthest you can possibly get from the sun in the model you think is "viable"
does the sun ever go down there?
FEN wiki gives the radius of the earth at 12,500 miles. that puts the edge of your world 6,250 miles from the equator. 18,750 miles from the farthest away the sun can be ((on average, equinox days)).
tan[SUP]-1[/SUP](3239/18750) = 9.8°
almost 10 degrees up in the sky. at midnight.
if the earth is flat, the sun never sets anywhere on earth. not even in Antarctica. not even at the 'edge of the world' at sea level.
did it get dark for you guys last night? does the sun set, and also rise?
really?
then the earth is not a flat disc.
it really is that simple.
give me an alternative explanation, or accept correction.
don't be as scripture says, "stupid"
does the sun ever go down there?
FEN wiki gives the radius of the earth at 12,500 miles. that puts the edge of your world 6,250 miles from the equator. 18,750 miles from the farthest away the sun can be ((on average, equinox days)).
tan[SUP]-1[/SUP](3239/18750) = 9.8°
almost 10 degrees up in the sky. at midnight.
if the earth is flat, the sun never sets anywhere on earth. not even in Antarctica. not even at the 'edge of the world' at sea level.
did it get dark for you guys last night? does the sun set, and also rise?
really?
then the earth is not a flat disc.
it really is that simple.
give me an alternative explanation, or accept correction.
don't be as scripture says, "stupid"
how high up would the sun have to be to make it appear that it sets in NYC?
the angular size of the sun is about 0.5°. this is measurable.
so for the sun to appear to actually touch the horizon, we need the angle it makes owing to perspective to be 0.5° or less.
taking the larger midnight distance from the FEN map, we solve:
tan-1(x/9434) = 0.5°
x = 9434*tan(0.5°)
x = 82 miles
((approximately))
so for the sun to be appearing to just touch the horizon at midnight from NYC, it would have to be less than only 82 miles up.
that's still not setting it's only touching the horizon, and it's happening at midnight, not what we all observe to actually be sundown. and due north, not in the west.
still believe?
now that contradicts every other measurable observation.
the sun at equinox from NYC is measurably at 49° in the sky. but at only 82 miles up, this FEN predicts the sun should only be
tan-1(82/2816) = 1.6°
at noon!
please explain, or accept correction.
reality contradicts the FEN model. drastically.
the scripture says rejecting correction is "stupid"
the angular size of the sun is about 0.5°. this is measurable.
so for the sun to appear to actually touch the horizon, we need the angle it makes owing to perspective to be 0.5° or less.
taking the larger midnight distance from the FEN map, we solve:
tan-1(x/9434) = 0.5°
x = 9434*tan(0.5°)
x = 82 miles
((approximately))
so for the sun to be appearing to just touch the horizon at midnight from NYC, it would have to be less than only 82 miles up.
that's still not setting it's only touching the horizon, and it's happening at midnight, not what we all observe to actually be sundown. and due north, not in the west.
still believe?
now that contradicts every other measurable observation.
the sun at equinox from NYC is measurably at 49° in the sky. but at only 82 miles up, this FEN predicts the sun should only be
tan-1(82/2816) = 1.6°
at noon!
please explain, or accept correction.
reality contradicts the FEN model. drastically.
the scripture says rejecting correction is "stupid"
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