You are so wrong. You do not become a Christian by faith and then concentrate on the written law. In effect you would have to judge your Christianity according to law. It is the law that shows you your sin. You have already said a Christian cannot go on sinning. We only know what sin is according to the law
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You are so wrong. You do not become a Christian by faith and then concentrate on the written law. In effect you would have to judge your Christianity according to law. It is the law that shows you your sin. You have already said a Christian cannot go on sinning. We only know what sin is according to the law
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dane_g87
Guest
What exactly do you mean by the written law?
What are you drivinfg at is more the point. The cMosaic law was one whole law.
You are doing what so many Protestant churches do, and then you cpomplain at the Catholic church for having what you believe written in their canon.
The Bible is crystal clear. The Christian is not under law. If you have law for a converted person sin still has its power. The power of sin is the law. It doesn'tr matter that you say it is not there for conversion, it is for sanctification, it must be. Therefore we are cstill according to you dependant on obetyying the law to get to Heaven
No wonder people are locked in sin, the cross is being ignored
The law condemned Paul
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dane_g87
Guest
No. I'm afraid there is a law that has far exceeded the law of Moses. And that is the law of Christ. The law of God, in general, is the mind of God by which He judges certain things to be righteous and just, and others to be unrighteous and corrupt. What God deems good or bad is the delight of any child of God. In the Old Covenant, since God ordained the law of Moses, the saints loved the law and it was their delight. In the New Covenant, Christ has ordained His law that fulfills and surpasses the law of Moses, and it is the delight of the children of God.
The law of Moses forbade murder but not hatred.
The law of Moses forbade adultery but not lust.
The law of Moses allowed divorce and polygamy.
The law of Moses required 10%.
The law of Moses required a Levitical priesthood.
The law of Moses required animal sacrifices.
The law of Moses required sabbath observance.
The law of Moses required circumcision.
The law of Christ forbids hatred and murder.
The law of Christ forbids lust and adultery.
The law of Christ does not allow for divorce (except in the case of infidelity) or polygamy
The law of Christ requires 100%.
The law of Christ establishes the church as the priesthood.
The law of Christ establishes Christ as the ultimate sacrifice.
The law of Christ establishes complete rest and peace in Christ with God.
The law of Christ requires spiritual circumcision of the heart.
The law of Moses forbade murder but not hatred.
The law of Moses forbade adultery but not lust.
The law of Moses allowed divorce and polygamy.
The law of Moses required 10%.
The law of Moses required a Levitical priesthood.
The law of Moses required animal sacrifices.
The law of Moses required sabbath observance.
The law of Moses required circumcision.
The law of Christ forbids hatred and murder.
The law of Christ forbids lust and adultery.
The law of Christ does not allow for divorce (except in the case of infidelity) or polygamy
The law of Christ requires 100%.
The law of Christ establishes the church as the priesthood.
The law of Christ establishes Christ as the ultimate sacrifice.
The law of Christ establishes complete rest and peace in Christ with God.
The law of Christ requires spiritual circumcision of the heart.
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No. I'm afraid there is a law that has far exceeded the law of Moses. And that is the law of Christ. The law of God, in general, is the mind of God by which He judges certain things to be righteous and just, and others to be unrighteous and corrupt. What God deems good or bad is the delight of any child of God. In the Old Covenant, since God ordained the law of Moses, the saints loved the law and it was their delight. In the New Covenant, Christ has ordained His law that fulfills and surpasses the law of Moses, and it is the delight of the children of God.
The law of Moses forbade murder but not hatred.
The law of Moses forbade adultery but not lust.
The law of Moses allowed divorce and polygamy.
The law of Moses required 10%.
The law of Moses required a Levitical priesthood.
The law of Moses required animal sacrifices.
The law of Moses required sabbath observance.
The law of Moses required circumcision.
The law of Christ forbids hatred and murder.
The law of Christ forbids lust and adultery.
The law of Christ dies not allow for divorce (except in the case of infidelity) or polygamy
The law of Christ requires 100%.
The law of Christ establishes the church as the priesthood.
The law of Christ establishes Christ as the ultimate sacrifice.
The law of Christ establishes complete rest and peace in Christ with God.
The law of Christ requires spiritual circumcision of the heart.
Well Paul said the law of Christ was carrying each others burdsens, and he said that was the law he was under. Who do I believe? You or Paul?
You don't understand here. Sin used the fact that paul knew coveting was wrtong to arouse all kinds of covetous(se4xual desires/lustful desires in him, it was the law
Now you are saying that that the law now for a Christian is no lust. And we are under that law.
So sin uses it to condemn people as it did Paul. Why is this so hard to understand?
I repeat. Why do you think half the sex addicts in Americas have been to 'holiness churches'?
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dane_g87
Guest
Again, Paul is talking about a person who is striving to keep the law in order to be justified. Someone who is trusting in their own righteousness according to the law. Paul is not talking about someone who is resting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Well Paul said the law of Christ was carrying each others burdsens, and he said that was the law he was under. Who do I believe? You or Paul?
You don't understand here. Sin used the fact that paul knew coveting was wrtong to arouse all kinds of covetous(se4xual desires/lustful desires in him, it was the law
Now you are saying that that the law now for a Christian is no lust. And we are under that law.
So sin uses it to condemn people as it did Paul. Why is this so hard to understand?
I repeat. Why do you think half the sex addicts in Americas have been to 'holiness churches'?
And why do you think Pauul says
Sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace(through faith) Rom6:14
and why does he say
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Nort at all! Rather we cuphold the law. Rom3:31
If you understood the meaning of that verse you would understand what I am saying here
Again, Paul is talking about a person who is striving to keep the law in order to be justified. Someone who is trusting in their own righteousness according to the law. Paul is not talking about someone who is resting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Dane I have tried. You keep your theology. But you are not under the grace Paul preached, of that I can assure you
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dane_g87
Guest
You don't even understand what you are saying as you are floating around in darkness.
When someone is under the law (needing to be justified by the works of the law), sin is their master, because they are guilty of it and broken the law. They are enslaved to sin and the only thing awaiting them is the death sentence, which is the wages of sin.
When someone is no longer under the law, but under grace, they no longer need to strive in order to be justified, for they have already been justified by the blood of Christ. Sin no longer is their master, as they have conquered sin and death through the victory of Jesus Christ. All that "being under grace" means is that they no longer have to justify themselves which is an impossible thing to do.
You believe that because "you are not under the law" that you can just kick the precious law of God under your feet and trample it underfoot. The law of God is not your delight as the Bible says it is for all true saints. You despise the law of God and striving after righteousness. You do not pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. Love and pursuit for the law of God is the evidence that someone has been saved by God. And since you do not manifest this evidence, you have every reason to be afraid. Faith without works is dead (James 2:20). Works is evidence that faith is genuine. Christ will condemn all who are lawless.
When someone is under the law (needing to be justified by the works of the law), sin is their master, because they are guilty of it and broken the law. They are enslaved to sin and the only thing awaiting them is the death sentence, which is the wages of sin.
When someone is no longer under the law, but under grace, they no longer need to strive in order to be justified, for they have already been justified by the blood of Christ. Sin no longer is their master, as they have conquered sin and death through the victory of Jesus Christ. All that "being under grace" means is that they no longer have to justify themselves which is an impossible thing to do.
You believe that because "you are not under the law" that you can just kick the precious law of God under your feet and trample it underfoot. The law of God is not your delight as the Bible says it is for all true saints. You despise the law of God and striving after righteousness. You do not pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. Love and pursuit for the law of God is the evidence that someone has been saved by God. And since you do not manifest this evidence, you have every reason to be afraid. Faith without works is dead (James 2:20). Works is evidence that faith is genuine. Christ will condemn all who are lawless.
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Again, Paul is talking about a person who is striving to keep the law in order to be justified. Someone who is trusting in their own righteousness according to the law. Paul is not talking about someone who is resting in the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Just tell me one thing. The law is in place according to you. What happens if I don't obey it?
You don't even understand what you are saying as you are floating around in darkness.
When someone is under the law (needing to be justified by the works of the law), sin is their master, because they are guilty of it and broken the law. They are enslaved to sin and the only thing awaiting them is the death sentence, which is the wages of sin.
When someone is no longer under the law, but under grace, they no longer need to strive in order to be justified, for they have already been justified by the blood of Christ. Sin no longer is their master, as they have conquered sin and death through the victory of Jesus Christ. All that "being under grace" means is that they no longer have to justify themselves which is an impossible thing to do.
You believe that because "you are not under the law" that you can just kick the precious law of God under your feet and trample it underfoot. The law of God is not your delight as the Bible says it is for all true saints. You despise the law of God and striving after righteousness. You do not pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. Love and pursuit for the law of God is the evidence that someone has been saved by God. And since you do not manifest this evidence, you have every reason to be afraid. Faith without works is dead (James 2:20). Works is evidence that faith is genuine. Christ will condemn all who are lawless.
I am trampling bthe law cof God under mybfeet
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! rather we uphold the law. I don't think so. You cannot see what Paul is saying
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dane_g87
Guest
(Hebrews 7:12) For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
According to the Old Covenant, which was bondage, one was required to fulfill the demands of the law perfectly or else face the curse. The purpose of this law was not to cause the OT saints to believe they could attain justification by following it...the purpose of this law was to point them to Christ. All the true saints of God in the Old Testament looked to the future redemption by which God would justify them completely. They did not trust in their own righteousness but in the righteousness of God that would be imputed to them. They loved the law of God and it was their delight, and they strove to be conformed to that law because they hungered and thirsted after righteousness; they did not strive after it in order to gain favor with God.
According to the New Covenant, which is freedom in Christ, Christ has fulfilled the demands of the law perfectly on behalf of His people. The same affection for God's law - the law of Christ now - is the same in His people in the New Covenant. It is their delight, they love it and pursue it.
"God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being." - Charles Spurgeon
According to the Old Covenant, which was bondage, one was required to fulfill the demands of the law perfectly or else face the curse. The purpose of this law was not to cause the OT saints to believe they could attain justification by following it...the purpose of this law was to point them to Christ. All the true saints of God in the Old Testament looked to the future redemption by which God would justify them completely. They did not trust in their own righteousness but in the righteousness of God that would be imputed to them. They loved the law of God and it was their delight, and they strove to be conformed to that law because they hungered and thirsted after righteousness; they did not strive after it in order to gain favor with God.
According to the New Covenant, which is freedom in Christ, Christ has fulfilled the demands of the law perfectly on behalf of His people. The same affection for God's law - the law of Christ now - is the same in His people in the New Covenant. It is their delight, they love it and pursue it.
"God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being." - Charles Spurgeon
(Hebrews 7:12) For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
According to the Old Covenant, which was bondage, one was required to fulfill the demands of the law perfectly or else face the curse. The purpose of this law was not to cause the OT saints to believe they could attain justification by following it...the purpose of this law was to point them to Christ. All the true saints of God in the Old Testament looked to the future redemption by which God would justify them completely. They did not trust in their own righteousness but in the righteousness of God that would be imputed to them. They loved the law of God and it was their delight, and they strove to be conformed to that law because they hungered and thirsted after righteousness; they did not strive after it in order to gain favor with God.
According to the New Covenant, which is freedom in Christ, Christ has fulfilled the demands of the law perfectly on behalf of His people. The same affection for God's law - the law of Christ now - is the same in His people in the New Covenant. It is their delight, they love it and pursue it.
"God grant us a supreme, over-mastering faith, for this is the kind of faith which we must have if we are to lead obedient lives! We must have faith in God's right to rule, faith in the rightness of his commands, faith in our personal obligation to obey, and faith that the command must be the paramount authority of our being." - Charles Spurgeon
Danre
Can you answer the question pl=ease. What happensd if I do not uphold the law?
You know cwhy can you not see this. Because we are not under the law at all we actually uphold it. Why is this so hard to see?
Paul explains that in Rom3:31
Why can we not be under law? Because sin uses it to condemn us. You cannot say that we saved without the law, but then it is still in effect. I wish you could be honest. You have admitted you continually break the law and all of the commandments. If only you coould accept what the Bible says and not at all live under the law vyou would better then uphold the law. Am I not sayinmg this plainly enough. Knowing the law never helped anyone to obeyt it. This is why Paul said he died to the law. Sins power is the law. Sins power has now been removed
If you live without the law you fatrr better actually uphold it. Anyone am I putting this wrong, is it my fault?
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dane_g87
Guest
It is not the duty or concern for any true believer of the law being upheld because their faith is in the reality that the Lord Jesus Christ has upheld the law completely on behalf of them.
O livinggrace, hear the words of Spurgeon regarding the precious law of God:
Charles Spurgeon - "[The saint] is not under the law as a curse and condemnation, but he is in it, and he delights to be in it as his rule of life; he delights, moreover, to meditate in it, to read it by day, and think upon it by night. He takes a text and carries it with him all day long; and in the night-watches, when sleep forsakes his eyelids, he museth upon the Word of God. In the day of his prosperity he sings psalms out of the Word of God, and in the night of his affliction he comforts himself with promises out of the same book. “The law of the Lord” is the daily bread of the true believer. And yet, in David's day, how small was the volume of inspiration, for they had scarcely anything save the first five books of Moses! How much more, then, should we prize the whole written Word which it is our privilege to have in all our houses! But, alas, what ill-treatment is given to this angel from heaven! We are not all Berean searchers of the Scriptures. How few among us can lay claim to the benediction of the text! Perhaps some of you can claim a sort of negative purity, because you do not walk in the way of the ungodly; but let me ask you - Is your delight in the law of God? Do you study God's Word? Do you make it the man of your right hand - your best companion and hourly guide? If not, this blessing belongeth not to you."
O livinggrace, hear the words of Spurgeon regarding the precious law of God:
Charles Spurgeon - "[The saint] is not under the law as a curse and condemnation, but he is in it, and he delights to be in it as his rule of life; he delights, moreover, to meditate in it, to read it by day, and think upon it by night. He takes a text and carries it with him all day long; and in the night-watches, when sleep forsakes his eyelids, he museth upon the Word of God. In the day of his prosperity he sings psalms out of the Word of God, and in the night of his affliction he comforts himself with promises out of the same book. “The law of the Lord” is the daily bread of the true believer. And yet, in David's day, how small was the volume of inspiration, for they had scarcely anything save the first five books of Moses! How much more, then, should we prize the whole written Word which it is our privilege to have in all our houses! But, alas, what ill-treatment is given to this angel from heaven! We are not all Berean searchers of the Scriptures. How few among us can lay claim to the benediction of the text! Perhaps some of you can claim a sort of negative purity, because you do not walk in the way of the ungodly; but let me ask you - Is your delight in the law of God? Do you study God's Word? Do you make it the man of your right hand - your best companion and hourly guide? If not, this blessing belongeth not to you."
It is not the duty or concern for any true believer of the law being upheld because their faith is in the reality that the Lord Jesus Christ has upheld the law completely on behalf of them.
O livinggrace, hear the words of Spurgeon regarding the precious law of God:
Charles Spurgeon - "[The saint] is not under the law as a curse and condemnation, but he is in it, and he delights to be in it as his rule of life; he delights, moreover, to meditate in it, to read it by day, and think upon it by night. He takes a text and carries it with him all day long; and in the night-watches, when sleep forsakes his eyelids, he museth upon the Word of God. In the day of his prosperity he sings psalms out of the Word of God, and in the night of his affliction he comforts himself with promises out of the same book. “The law of the Lord” is the daily bread of the true believer. And yet, in David's day, how small was the volume of inspiration, for they had scarcely anything save the first five books of Moses! How much more, then, should we prize the whole written Word which it is our privilege to have in all our houses! But, alas, what ill-treatment is given to this angel from heaven! We are not all Berean searchers of the Scriptures. How few among us can lay claim to the benediction of the text! Perhaps some of you can claim a sort of negative purity, because you do not walk in the way of the ungodly; but let me ask you - Is your delight in the law of God? Do you study God's Word? Do you make it the man of your right hand - your best companion and hourly guide? If not, this blessing belongeth not to you."
Tomorrow it is too late now I will write pages of all of grace out. Then you can see what Spurgeon says there. I knew you wouldn't accept it. You still haven't said what happens if we fail to obey the law. You fail to obey it yet you believe you will go to Heaven anyway. I could well ask what is the point of the law? You say that you break all of God's commandments but you will go to heaven And redinmg that again
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dane_g87
Guest
Now you are running as you clearly see Spurgeon betrays you. As Spurgeon has asked, "Is your delight in the law of God? ...If not, this blessing belongeth not to you."
No. I'm afraid there is a law that has far exceeded the law of Moses. And that is the law of Christ. The law of God, in general, is the mind of God by which He judges certain things to be righteous and just, and others to be unrighteous and corrupt. What God deems good or bad is the delight of any child of God. In the Old Covenant, since God ordained the law of Moses, the saints loved the law and it was their delight. In the New Covenant, Christ has ordained His law that fulfills and surpasses the law of Moses, and it is the delight of the children of God.
Spurgeon says in your comment we are not under law for condemnation, are you saying that here. I don't think so. You refiused to answer my question what happens if I do not keep the law? If someone wants to delight in the law and someone elsec just looks to Christ in fasith are you saying thery are wrong. Remmember accvording to your own words I uphold the law better than you And I uphold the law by not in anyway living under it. Not perfectly, but you say you break all of the commandments. Whos running?
And vyou tell me I am running. Why can you not answer my questions
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dane_g87
Guest
I am not saying we are under the law for condemnation. I already said being under the law implies the law needing to be satisfied. If I am under the law, and I have broken the law, I cannot satisfy the demands of the law, and thus the only thing left for me is condemnation. I am under grace, not under the law. I said I break all the commandments because it is impossible for me to keep the commandments in such a way as to satisfy the demands of the law. I trust in Christ to do that, not myself. I fail the righteous requirement of the law concerning justification. My faith is in Christ for my justification. My affection and love is on the law of God, regardless if I'm able to keep it perfectly, or if I fail miserably at keeping it perfectly. Whether or not we can keep it perfectly, or go a day without breaking it at all in any degree, is not the issue. The issue is what is your delight? What do you love? What do you meditate on? Is it the law of God? The Bible says God gives His people a heart with His law written on it so that His law is their delight.
Spurgeon says the saint is not under the law, but "he is in it." He loves it, strives after it, meditates in it. The Bible says blessed is the man who delights in the law of God. Spurgeon condemns you: "Is the law of God your delight? If not...this blessing belongeth not to you."
Spurgeon says the saint is not under the law, but "he is in it." He loves it, strives after it, meditates in it. The Bible says blessed is the man who delights in the law of God. Spurgeon condemns you: "Is the law of God your delight? If not...this blessing belongeth not to you."
No. I'm afraid there is a law that has far exceeded the law of Moses. And that is the law of Christ. The law of God, in general, is the mind of God by which He judges certain things to be righteous and just, and others to be unrighteous and corrupt. What God deems good or bad is the delight of any child of God. In the Old Covenant, since God ordained the law of Moses, the saints loved the law and it was their delight. In the New Covenant, Christ has ordained His law that fulfills and surpasses the law of Moses, and it is the delight of the children of God.
Spurgeon says in your comment we are not under law for condemnation, are you saying that here. I don't think so. You refiused to answer my question what happens if I do not keep the law? If someone wants to delight in the law and someone elsec just looks to Christ in fasith are you saying thery are wrong. Remmember accvording to your own words I uphold the law better than you And I uphold the law by not in anyway living under it. Not perfectly, but you say you break all of the commandments. Whos running?
And vyou tell me I am running. Why can you not answer my questions
Actually if spurgeon says we are not under the law for condemnation how is that disagreing with me? From your statements it is disgreeing with you.
I have stated becuse we are not under law we actually uphold it, you can't accept that. Please think on this
I am not saying we are under the law for condemnation.
No I am sorry Spurtgeon is far closer to me than you. You specifically said although we are not under law for salvation we are under Christs law after that. You gave lust aong with adultery etc as examples. When I repeatedly asked you if what happened if vI did not obey the law you declined to answer. Your inference was as I am sure all will agree if we fail to obey Christ's law we are condemned. Spurgeon does not say that accorerdibng to your posting, neither do I And when I say there is no lasw for the Christian. but by there being no lawc we uphold it can you tell me how that really disagrees from Spurgeon please
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