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Post #139 has the question below and also explains my "up and down diagonally" in relation to the sun.
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
If that IS why we see this, then I will proceed to ask my next question again (hopefully clearly as I have a hard time with explaining my brain).
I wanted to wait on my follow up (the real one) question until I'm sure I understand the why's and how's of the globe version reasons we see the sun going up/down. If I should restate my question for clarity I will surely try.
Thank you so much for taking the time you have!!!
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
If that IS why we see this, then I will proceed to ask my next question again (hopefully clearly as I have a hard time with explaining my brain).
I wanted to wait on my follow up (the real one) question until I'm sure I understand the why's and how's of the globe version reasons we see the sun going up/down. If I should restate my question for clarity I will surely try.
Thank you so much for taking the time you have!!!
Inaccuracies abound...! 
You need better pictures, posthuman, if you are going to properly represent a globe earth model.
You need better pictures, posthuman, if you are going to properly represent a globe earth model.
how about this one; it's 11,000 by 11,000 pixels.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Himawari-8_true-color_earth.jpg
((waaaay too big to post inline on the forum))
Japan put a new weather satellite into a geo-stationary orbit above New Guinea last year at a little over 22,000 miles. that's high enough to see the entire globe.
it takes 144 super-high-resolution true-color images of the entire eastern hemisphere every day, at a resolution twice that of most other weather satellites, in addition to carrying onboard a battery of other instruments to measure and observe weather patterns over the pacific ocean. it takes these images of Japan every 2.5 minutes.
its name is Himawari-8.
[video=youtube;ggKun-D7ywI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggKun-D7ywI[/video]
putting what it does every 10 minutes into animations is very pretty
here's what a full solar eclipse looks like from 22,236 miles up:
major clickhole material, i know, searching for "himawari images" -- what can we say? God made a gorgeous planet!
here is a site with real-time images in full resolution:
http://himawari8.nict.go.jp/
here is one with many nice loops picked out, downloadable in .gif or .mp4, and you can explore some and maybe find a part of the site that lets you make your own loops in full resolution:
http://rammb.cira.colostate.edu/ramsdis/online/loop_of_the_day/
and of course, here is the JMA mission home page:
http://www.jma-net.go.jp/msc/en/index.html
Himawari 9 should be lauched this November 1. not to be outdone, NASA is launching its own similar new generation of weather satellite on November 4, called GOES-R, to provide coverage at even higher resolution of the western hemisphere.
here's the NASA mission page:
http://www.goes-r.gov/
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i'm interested to hear how you think this is completely faked in real-time, Gary -- down to the exact cloud formations and weather patterns that you can verify from any number of sources you wish.
i really do think that it's time for you to wake up, dude.
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pretend you're on a merry go round in the dark and i'm standing stationary off to the side holding a lamp.
say you're rotating clockwise ((looking down on the playground)).
as you rotate towards me, you see more and more of the lamplight to your right.
when you're facing me, you're lit up.
then you rotate away from me and see less lamplight as you do, and it's to your left.
when you are facing away from me, you're in the dark.
this is how sunrise and sunset work. how day and night work.
fix that image in your mind, and think about angling the merry-go round, like it's an amusement park ride.
it doesn't matter how you angle it, as long as you're still rotating in the same direction, it works the same way.
you'd have to completely flip the merry-go-round 180º to make it look like the lamplight approaches from your left and descends from your right, or come to a complete stop and start spinning the other way.
but the earth is only tilted about 23º
90º is straight up, 45º is half of that - if you want to match this merry-go-round model to the earth, it's only tilted around half again of that: 1/4 of vertical. that's not nearly enough to make the light appear to change directions.
now about summer vs. winter, imagine the merry-go-round wobbles, like a coin that you've twirled and is almost run out of momentum and falling down flat, only it stays at about 23º
that's the picture. it doesn't make the sun appear to go down at sunrise or make it rise in the west.
say you're rotating clockwise ((looking down on the playground)).
as you rotate towards me, you see more and more of the lamplight to your right.
when you're facing me, you're lit up.
then you rotate away from me and see less lamplight as you do, and it's to your left.
when you are facing away from me, you're in the dark.
this is how sunrise and sunset work. how day and night work.
fix that image in your mind, and think about angling the merry-go round, like it's an amusement park ride.
it doesn't matter how you angle it, as long as you're still rotating in the same direction, it works the same way.
you'd have to completely flip the merry-go-round 180º to make it look like the lamplight approaches from your left and descends from your right, or come to a complete stop and start spinning the other way.
but the earth is only tilted about 23º
90º is straight up, 45º is half of that - if you want to match this merry-go-round model to the earth, it's only tilted around half again of that: 1/4 of vertical. that's not nearly enough to make the light appear to change directions.
now about summer vs. winter, imagine the merry-go-round wobbles, like a coin that you've twirled and is almost run out of momentum and falling down flat, only it stays at about 23º
that's the picture. it doesn't make the sun appear to go down at sunrise or make it rise in the west.
Posted:
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
~Does the way the Earth rotates in relation to the sun "down diagonally toward the sun" ("down" making the sun appear to go up at sunrise) account for the sun appearing to us to go up OR is there another explanation for our perception of the sun appearing to do this?
If that is NOT why we see the sun go up (because the Earth rotates "down") and why we see the sun go down (because the Earth rotates back "up"), what exactly is the reason?
no, it's like this:
east and west remain the same relative to the sun, not relative to a stationary observer looking down on the solar system. because they are defined by the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. as the earth revolves around the sun over a year, east and west also revolve -- so no matter what time of year it is, east is still the direction the sun appears to rise in ((and the sun still appears to rise, as the earth rotates and it comes into view from wherever you are))
i think maybe the reason you're having difficulty resolving this is you are picturing it from looking down on the whole system from some fixed point out in space, and so you're thinking of the coordinate system as being fixed -- but the coordinate system ((up, down, east, west, sunrise, sunset etc.)) is moving, it's all a bunch of directions measured from the face of the earth . . ?
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back to the merry-go-round model, here's all the difference summer and winter make as far as the relative position of the sun ((i confess i was just too lazy to draw a stickman holding a lamp lol))
((in spring and fall, the tilt of the earth would be toward and away from you looking straight on, so you would be seeing part of the top and bottom of the merry-go-round, looking at it from the same perspective))
the effect of this on what you see, sitting on the merry go round, is just that the apparent path of the sun is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, because the axis is tilting you towards it at one time of year and away from it at another.
can you picture the 'wobbling' motion of the axis OK?
i find it easiest to visualize like this:
so, basically this is happening, representing the rotation of the earth, while at the same time the earth is also revolving - orbiting around the sun.
neither of these motions change the sun-earth orientation so that the sun should appear to 'go down' in the morning or 'go up' at night.
east and west remain the same relative to the sun, not relative to a stationary observer looking down on the solar system. because they are defined by the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. as the earth revolves around the sun over a year, east and west also revolve -- so no matter what time of year it is, east is still the direction the sun appears to rise in ((and the sun still appears to rise, as the earth rotates and it comes into view from wherever you are))
i think maybe the reason you're having difficulty resolving this is you are picturing it from looking down on the whole system from some fixed point out in space, and so you're thinking of the coordinate system as being fixed -- but the coordinate system ((up, down, east, west, sunrise, sunset etc.)) is moving, it's all a bunch of directions measured from the face of the earth . . ?
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back to the merry-go-round model, here's all the difference summer and winter make as far as the relative position of the sun ((i confess i was just too lazy to draw a stickman holding a lamp lol))
((in spring and fall, the tilt of the earth would be toward and away from you looking straight on, so you would be seeing part of the top and bottom of the merry-go-round, looking at it from the same perspective))
the effect of this on what you see, sitting on the merry go round, is just that the apparent path of the sun is higher in the summer and lower in the winter, because the axis is tilting you towards it at one time of year and away from it at another.
can you picture the 'wobbling' motion of the axis OK?
i find it easiest to visualize like this:
so, basically this is happening, representing the rotation of the earth, while at the same time the earth is also revolving - orbiting around the sun.
neither of these motions change the sun-earth orientation so that the sun should appear to 'go down' in the morning or 'go up' at night.
i've been trying to help you visualize it ((maybe failing lol -- because sometimes i ramble on following the way my thoughts work and it's not necessarily the way your brain wants to arrange the information)) -- and maybe in saying all that the basic answer to this question got lost..
so here it is again plainly:
sunrise and sunset, the apparent motion of the sun from east to west in the sky every day are completely a product of the earth rotating. they would be the same with or without tilt of the axis of the earth.
((of course if the rotational axis was tilted too much there wouldn't be sunrise/sunset -- God made it "just so"))
the tilt of the earth gives rise to the existence of seasons. the only effect it has on the apparent motion of the sun in the sky is that its path is higher or lower depending on if you are tilted toward or away from the sun at that time of year.
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being close to the north or south pole is a special, extreme case on the surface of the earth.
in those places, because of the tilt of the earth the sun may remain in the sky all day long for weeks or months, or it may not be in the sky at all for weeks or months depending on the season, when you are tilted toward or away from the sun.
how long the sun is perpetually up or perpetually down is a function of the angle the earth is tilted at relative to the plane of its orbit and how far you are from the poles.
if the earth were tilted at a bigger angle, that polar region where there's 24hr darkness or sunlight would be bigger, that is, you could be further away from the north or south pole and during the 'right' season, experience the perpetual night or perpetual day.
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God has designed and ordered this whole system very delicately and precisely, to give us the seasons, and the day and the night, as well as the moon with its own orbit around us and brightly reflective surface, to give light, and to have phases and orbital paths to determine times and seasons. and He made it exactly the right size at exactly the right distance for us to see eclipses at just the times He wants us to see them -- all of this is all designed by Him just the way He pleases.
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i want to say something in general about the structure of the universe in the proposed flat-earth model versus the actual universe:
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one of the lines of reasoning that people who are under this deception use, when they argue from a religious perspective, is that the reason the enormously unbelievable conspiracy to hide the shape of the universe goes on is that, they say, it would be so "obvious" that there is a God if only we knew that we lived in what amounts to a snowglobe diorama. and "obviously" - they say - the 'powers that be' don't want people to realize this, so much so that 'they' go to enormous lengths to hide it, even coming up with a whole plausible and testable and consistent explanation of all astronomy and physics. the scope such a conspiracy would have to take is unimaginable and absurd, but that's not what i want to point out --
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what i want to point out is that the premise here is twofold:
one, that there doesn't have to be a God if the earth is a globe, just one of several planets orbiting a kind of nondescript star in some tiny corner of a vast, vast universe.
two, that the universe actually being comparatively very small and entirely humankind-focused means there must be a God.
the first point should be quickly dismissed: the creation makes plain that it needs a Creator, no matter how you dice it, even if the big-bang cosmologies are correct and even if the evolution of species has merit, the origin and delicately balanced design of the cosmos itself and of life itself is inexplicable without a motive force, a Prime Mover - no matter what the shape of the heavens and earth are, and no matter what the details of how He has formed us are. 6,000 years or 6 trillion, there must be a God. in fact, the greater the creation is, the greater the power, wisdom and majesty of God must be. that is a very important fact: keep it in mind through this very long post, please
the second point - i concede that maybe it is more obvious that God is, if the totality of creation is not as all evidence points to it being, but rather it is like a little playpen diorama, a snowglobe or a dollhouse. but the reason it would be so, is because in this case the universe is "unnatural" -- it doesn't have a structure and order that can be understood by immutable laws and precepts, and its workings don't follow any kind of physics or logic. this doesn't make it more plain because creation is more wonderful and awesome, but because it is more "artificial"
so what?
so think about just what kind of God this argument is suggesting must be "evident" --because with either paradigm, we have the same scripture, that says the Almighty Ancient of Days eternal qualities are plainly made known by what is seen. ((re: Romans 1:20)) the whole of the heavens and the earth show "His eternal power and divine nature" - so how does that play out in the two models?
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if the earth and the universe is as 'modern' astronomy suggests - not the center of all things, and almost completely insignificant compared to the size and grandeur of the whole universe, what kind of God is it that is plainly seen?
then in this case we have a God who is limitless and infinite in power, whose works are incomprehensibly great - and a creature called man of whom it can truly be said, "what is man, that Thou art mindful of him?"
a God who must love us very, very much to stoop to consider us, and to care for us, puny and insignificant rash that we are on a tiny rock in the middle of nowhere - to have given us existence at all, to have provided for us air and water and food,warmth and light! and oh!! how very very low the Son had to humble Himself to come to us and live as a human! it's unimaginably humbling and His care for us is a bewildering display of profound love!
but think now if the whole universe is a snowglobe, a flat earth with a tiny sun and an inconsistent physics, a dome painted black with fake stars on it. the god who created this universe doesn't necessarily have to be very great. it is a small universe, and more importantly - it is a very deceptive one. the natural laws it works by are not consistent and regularly broken, and the whole thing is designed in order to fool mankind into thinking it is far greater and larger than it is - planets and stars that aren't planets or stars at all, but only pictures of them, like a contrived backdrop for a fishtank. optical illusions instead of reality, and realities that break its physical laws and make it appear that the heavenly bodies do things that they really do not do, that they are far greater than they really are -- like a movie set full of fake buildings and 'camera magic.' and all focused on exactly one thing: humans.
in such an worldview, mankind has every reason to puff himself up and feel very vain - the whole universe is not so big, after all, and obviously we are the most important thing in it: practically nothing exists except for us, certainly nothing of significance, and everything that exists is solely for our benefit. why shouldn't we demand of this god that he provide for us everything we need and fully expect him to give us everything we desire? hey - we're the whole point of everything that exists! we're the center of the universe! such a god doesn't 'humble himself' at all to serve us: we are the whole focus of all creation, and nothing else matters. this universe is entirely human-oriented.
"what is man that Thou art mindful of him?" -- in the flat earth paradigm, man is everything. that statement loses all value and impact. it becomes void of meaning, because in this view, man is the very center of all things - virtually the only thing in the universe worth considering, because all other things are made for mans own pleasure and purpose. looking at it from the snowglobe-universe perspective, the Psalm is asking a rhetorical question: "what is man? man is practically the only thing in all of creation with any importance at all! of course God should be mindful of us!"
this is a completely human-centric, vain cosmos.
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so here's your two universe models, and your two versions of God:
one in which man is humbled by the awesome power and majesty of a God who has little if any reason to bother to think of us at all in the vast scope of all that He created, to which we should be eternally grateful for the smallest gifts, and inconceivably amazed that He should humble Himself to become flesh and save us!
and one in which man has every reason to think highly of himself in every regard, and to imagine that god to be his servant, who has created a very little universe designed to give a false impression of greatness - a god before which we have very little reason to feel humbled, who we can easily argue has a duty to preserve and provide for us, since we are the entire point and focus of all creation - a god who would almost be exalting himself to become flesh, to become one of the creatures about whom the entire universe revolves around. a god whose laws are inconsistent, who makes fake stars in the sky and fake planets that move around in totally inexplicable ways, all to fool us into thinking we live in a bigger place than we do, like we're pets in a cage. pets of a god who we could justifiably sue for cruelty if he doesn't stay at our beck-and-call.
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so what do you think -- has God created a doll-house with a painted backdrop,or an actual universe?
is man the center of all things, so that His tending to us is a duty we should rightfully demand of Him?
or are we nothing but dust and a puff of breath in the grand scope of things,so that we ought to be amazed with infinite wonder that He should even notice us? awestruck by His love that He cares for us?
does He create a small, inconsistent, deceptive universe?
or a great and vast work, breathtakingly enormous and fractally complex yet governed by simple precepts?
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this is the crux:
in which universe does this scripture make sense?
When I consider thy heavens,
the work of thy fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which thou hast ordained;
What is man,
that Thou art mindful of him?
(Psalm 8:3-4)
the work of thy fingers,
the moon and the stars,
which thou hast ordained;
What is man,
that Thou art mindful of him?
(Psalm 8:3-4)
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Please bear with me --- let me ask you one more thing - what is the diameter of your globe?
when Gary tries to 'wow' you next with how far away the sun should be from a 1ft globe, don't let him forget to tell you that yes, it is very far away, but it is also enormous.
to scale, if the earth was a 1ft globe, the sun would be 2.25 miles away.
and it would be about 109 feet in diameter.
how big is that?
oh, just about 4 X 9 standard size large UPS trucks.
((with the earth about 3/5 the size of one of the wheels, tire not included. close to the size of the inner hub))
. . . and it is also about 10[SUP]24[/SUP] times more luminous than an ordinary 200-watt light bulb
i.e. if you had an 200w light bulb as big as 36 UPS trucks, the sun would still be, to scale,
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times brighter.
so don't imagine that giant pile of box trucks is a big floodlight -- imagine it is a nuclear explosion that would immediately melt your face if you got within 3/4 a mile of it. remember, it's hot enough that even at ((to scale)) two & a quarter miles away, the whole earth is warmed up by it. way hotter than any light bulb.
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if that's what you're going for here Gary,
please don't let's leave out facts and distort the truth.
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when Gary tries to 'wow' you next with how far away the sun should be from a 1ft globe, don't let him forget to tell you that yes, it is very far away, but it is also enormous.
to scale, if the earth was a 1ft globe, the sun would be 2.25 miles away.
and it would be about 109 feet in diameter.
how big is that?
View attachment 161059
oh, just about 4 X 9 standard size large UPS trucks.
((with the earth about 3/5 the size of one of the wheels, tire not included. close to the size of the inner hub))
. . . and it is also about 10[SUP]24[/SUP] times more luminous than an ordinary 200-watt light bulb
i.e. if you had an 200w light bulb as big as 36 UPS trucks, the sun would still be, to scale,
1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times brighter.
so don't imagine that giant pile of box trucks is a big floodlight -- imagine it is a nuclear explosion that would immediately melt your face if you got within 3/4 a mile of it. remember, it's hot enough that even at ((to scale)) two & a quarter miles away, the whole earth is warmed up by it. way hotter than any light bulb.
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if that's what you're going for here Gary,
please don't let's leave out facts and distort the truth.
J
How to prove beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt that the Earth is flat, and not a sphere...
Position, somewhere [FONT="]on the Equator[/FONT], a stationary reference "beacon" that sends out a signal in all directions -- or, at least - either East or West - with an angular range from North to South ( i.e. - 180 degrees with East / West in center - albeit, only ............experiment - it is the only lattitude that is supposed to be a continual straight line all the way around the globe. And, that is why - if the results of the latter case are obtained - the Earth cannot possibly be a sphere.
Position, somewhere [FONT="]on the Equator[/FONT], a stationary reference "beacon" that sends out a signal in all directions -- or, at least - either East or West - with an angular range from North to South ( i.e. - 180 degrees with East / West in center - albeit, only ............experiment - it is the only lattitude that is supposed to be a continual straight line all the way around the globe. And, that is why - if the results of the latter case are obtained - the Earth cannot possibly be a sphere.
[FONT="]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZ_PHiuMhpQ[/FONT]
Yes,its a flat earth kind of like a curved flat disc turned upside down for knowing the exact shape of earth's surface.
(Bible Proves it)
But here are the problems trying to make people understand:-
* People find it terrifying to unplug themselves from fantasies that have been injected inside their minds from childhood mostly
* even if bible proves its flat earth the spell that binds even Christians is so strong that one must be deep rooted in either Holy Scripture or must be having a sense forf checking everything out than swallowing what ever told.
eg: nasa(frauds) say earth is flat.
proof: globe model and an old painted globe picture
nasa: satellites exist
proof:look at nasa website and amateur pics(mostly photo shopped or cgi)
Have doubts?..Not possible...because nasa threatens everyone to believe in blue marble.
[FONT="]If you still resist you will be isolated(for breaking out from the spell of satanists [/FONT]
[FONT="] and coming to the True Vision of the Creation..)[/FONT]
How many verses in Bile says its Flat,.....yet because people have lost Faith in Holy Scripture satan blinds their eyes.And its hard for them also to unwind the fantasies injected in from a long time.Lazy to simply say....
Anyways glad to hear that your eyes are opened cause many don't want to realize that when you look straight up u see the dome that God created and not the scientology nonsense star wars deep space nonsense
View attachment 161395
[FONT="]2 peter ch 3 KJV:-
[/FONT]
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If u say that old testament says earth is flat then the excuse will be that people of those times were not educated and simple folks(no wonder because even when God Himself declares that He made everything in 7 days on Mt.Horeb and exodus chp.20:11 says that[SUP] "[/SUP][FONT="]For in six days the [/FONT]Lord[FONT="] made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the [/FONT]Lord[FONT="] blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.[/FONT]".....people don't see it..lack of faith..but swallow evolution)
And if you quote New testament Verses they get furious or laugh at you.Either way mockery will come for declaring the Truth because that's how its supposed to be...
That's how Christ Suffered and that is the way.
View attachment 161397
But those who live in comfort zones look at folks like these not knowing about their true history:-
View attachment 161396
The so called scientists and space agency frauds tell always about missions to distant planets but never fulfilled and it will be so and, people don't care because they don't want to come out of fairy tales of milky way.
But even when there is a fair chance for some frauds to go to realms above the dome to nest in stars, and Word of God says "[FONT="]Though thou exalt [/FONT][FONT="]thyself[/FONT][FONT="] as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.[/FONT] - Obadiah 1:4 KJV" people cannot see it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnJLetw5sH0
And Oh...youtube videos are all fake but if its a nasa video its not.No need to verify..just swallow....
Just what happens to the tax money send to these corrupt political frauds running these space agencies and other government institutions in every country world wide.Money of the common man looted in the name of fake space missions,etc..
These corrupt evil men spend millions to make certain communications free so that people stay glued to fantasies and believe the lies they tell.
Countless are starving world wide because of these evil men because they make them world starve purposefully, and make their agendas work.
[SUP] "[/SUP]For ye have the poor always with you; but me ye have not always." - Jesus.
No wonder why He said that....because its a man made disaster!
Lack of common sense is a curse!!!
"Humility => Knowledge + Awareness + Discernment" - that's a nice quote.
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding."
[FONT="]Note: am not interested in picking up a fight with anyone here,just glad to see that people are realizing that there are no aliens(deception from satan and his cultists), no gps-satellites(but underground optical cable networks and straight radio transmission network towers),no global warming(another scam to loot public world wide) etc....[/FONT]
[FONT="]And just it's getting time for that dome(Van Allen belt- firmament).....
.....to open up and Christ come with His Armies literally from up above and not from some distant galaxy...[/FONT]
