WE ARE CLEAN

beta · Oct 14, 2016

Of course it always comes back to Jesus, we can do nothing without Him - that is why we must stay close to Him 24/7 after seeking and accepting His help. If you are not with Him wherever He goes you break that bond/relationship with Him.
If 'walking with Him is not a reality in your life it is little more than pretence....for faith without works is dead !

ladylynn · Oct 14, 2016

beta said:

Many believers hold to what your post says beta and I was also under the same understanding until recently. Because my sins are all forgiven and forgotten as far as the east is from the west it is for that reason that I am always and forever allowed legally to go before the Father.

Jesus is always and will always be my Advocate and yours. As long as He lives we are free to go before the Father because we go in the righteousness Jesus gave us when we got saved. Jesus lives after the power of an endless life.

When Jesus died, all our sins were future. He died once and will not be crucified again. Our salvation is 100% paid for in full. No balance remaining. We are not saved on the installment plan sort of speak.
1 John 2:1-2 if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins.

When we begin to walk by faith we learn about repentance and how our minds are daily being renewed in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Repentance is about our minds changing not about how much we "do" to prove we are sorry.

We don't need to prove our sorrow by climbing a mountain or doing penance. A person who thinks self punishment or crying can atone for their sins is mistaken. Jesus did all the suffering and dying we will ever need to be our Advocate before the Father. Our sins have already been paid for in the body of Jesus when He was on the cross. God is totally satisfied with our redemption as Jesus has done it all.

Jesus alone is the "propitiation" for all our sins. Nothing more is needed.

beta · Oct 14, 2016

I can agree with a lot you say lady because if it was not for Jesus' love and sacrifice we'd be nowhere. But you are limiting His work when you stop Him living His life IN YOU. YOU/WE are still living an earthly life and this is where we learn to copy Him and are conformed to HIS image.
If you refuse to walk with Him in this life how will you be able to in spirit ? If DOING is not important why does scripture say we must be DOERS of the Word ?

Jesus has indeed done all HE alone could do for us but from the time of accepting Him WE must walk WITH HIM at all times good and bad. It does not all stop with His sacrifice , that was to give US a new start by the power of His Spirit, to regenerate us into action to take the 'high road.
But we know this is not for the 'feinthearted who want to walk the wide and easy road ! It takes a lot of courage and humility to make a decision for Christ 24/7. Not all are ready !

heavenly_bound · Oct 14, 2016

Stephen63 said:

i keep pointing this out but you don't seem to see it bc your understanding of the person and work of Christ to humanity is external to Christ!
with this paradigm, you will see Christ as an example for us to follow; not knowing that we were in Christ in His death burial quacking, raising, ascending and seating!!

Christ was not enthroned as God when He ascended into heaven. He was enthroned as man! By virtue of His union with humanity, the God Man was enthroned as man! in other words, Man was included in the Godhead by virtue of Christ enthronement! the very reason why we are sited in heavenly places!! There is a man in the Godhead
So we DO NOT follow Christ! We are ONE with Him, in an inseparable union; a union without mixture!!

ladylynn · Oct 14, 2016

Not sure what you mean beta? Limiting Him? How is trusting His promises limiting Him? Reading His Word and believing what it says. I'm not refusing to walk with Him., that is what I posted too beta., Did you read my post?

heavenly_bound · Oct 14, 2016

Stephen63 said:

i forgot to at this; That Jesus is God therefore He had no need to be enthroned. why He was enthroned when He entered heaven was due to His union with man!
Just as Christ had no need to die for himself since He was sinless, so it is with His enthronement!

beta · Oct 14, 2016

ladylynn said:

Yes I did read your post and there was a lot of good stuff in it, but somehow Christians don't want to go any further than the cross, saying that if we do we make His sacrifice void, we fall from grace. So consequently everything stops at the cross. Jesus was not left on the cross, He came alive and continues His work this time INCLUDING us through and by His Spirit.
Even though our present sins are now forgiven UPON REPENTANCE (don't forget that part) we still sin and even believe we don't need to get rid of them completelly, that forgiveness is enough. That is false teaching lady- limiting Christs power in us. We have to start DOING what scripture says - not only hearing and believing it. That is only for children and beginners, not for the mature in Christ. And as long as people believe false teaching that WE must NOT DO anything in case we take away from Christ, we will never grow any further WITH Christ - not diminishing any of HIS work so far.
Scripture says we must become DOERS ---so I make no apologies for walking with Jesus 24/7and having Him as my living example---it's what His disciples did !

Grace777x70 · Oct 14, 2016

Walking with Christ 24/7 does not mean observing a Sabbath day or a feast or by observing the law of Moses - walking with Christ is believing in all that He has already done for us. His life in us is what leads us by the Holy Spirit within us. We walk by the Spirit now. This will result in an exchanged life that manifests Christ in and through us.

Our sins are forgiven because "we believe" in what Christ has already done when we hear the message of the gospel of the grace of Christ.

This is called repentance towards God in believing in His work for us because of His great love and grace towards us.

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

Notice that Peter is saying that the Gentiles that heard the gospel - believed and had their hearts cleansed by faith.

Acts 15:7-9 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart,testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

ladylynn · Oct 14, 2016

[TABLE="class: cms_table, width: 400, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 3, align: left"]You see, as believers, when we received Jesus, His blood cleansed us from sin as well as sickness. (Isaiah 53:4–5) But we keep hearing people pronounce sin, sickness, poverty and death over us. We keep hearing people tell us that we are unclean, undeserving, poor, weak, and that it is only natural that we grow old and sickly, and die.

Who are the priests today? You and I! In fact, we have more authority to pronounce good things than the Levitical priests of the Old Testament. They were just priests. But we are king-priests by the blood of Jesus! (Revelation 1:5–6) Where the word of the king is, there is power. (Ecclesiastes 8:4) And by the word of a priest, every controversy and every assault shall be settled. (Deuteronomy 21:5)

Beloved, God has cleansed you, so pronounce yourself clean! Right now, put your hand on your heart and pronounce good things over yourself. Say, “I pronounce myself clean, righteous, healed, whole and abundantly supplied by the blood of Jesus!” By your word as a king-priest, every assault against you shall be settled![/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is true in my life. Humanly it is hard to actually take in but by faith we can believe we are sons and saints and heirs now because of Jesus. We have been made joint heirs with Christ., so claiming the promises is Biblical. One of the many reasons the church is so weak in these days is because believers don't know who they are In Christ. We allow the world to fill our minds and mouths with negativity and no expectation for any good coming from our Father. (until we get to heaven)

I've noticed many Christians seem to fight for the faith to be poor and beggarly. They won't claim for themselves or allow others to claim promises that are ours IN Christ given freely. I no longer believe God wants us to lack for anything. And if someone wants to disagree they will have to disagree with the Bible and Psalm 23 "the Lord is my Shepherd I shall not lack"

Since the Bible has so many rich and great promises for us, there is no way I'm allowing the negativity of the world or sourpuss religious people to steal my joy and provision that came from Christ. The Gospel is called the "Good News" it's not bad news. Is it any wonder so many believers can't smile? The joy of the Lord is our strength. Some believers look and act like they were baptized in Lemon juice. No smiles for them and they don't want anyone else to smile either.

Somehow they have got it in their minds that we can only smile in heaven.., that we should never be happy or joyful but instead be a sourpuss. To some Christians it's spiritual to be like that. I find that a sad and miserable way to live for Jesus and it's also a totally man made religious attitude many have adopted.

Stephen63 · Oct 14, 2016

ladylynn said:

To some people HYPERgrace is just too good to be true. Many will not dare apply it for the utter absurdity of how TRUE grace won't mix with human reason . But once you do the promises of God are all yes and amen because of the grace of God in Christ. We are now learning to walk out the new life Christ has bought for us and put in us. It's not "magic" it's grace.

There.....All fixed!

Grace777x70 · Oct 14, 2016

Originally Posted by ladylynn

To some people HYPER grace is just too good to be true. Many will not dare apply it for the utter absurdity of how TRUE grace won't mix with human reason . But once you do the promises of God are all yes and amen because of the grace of God in Christ. We are now learning to walk out the new life Christ has bought for us and put in us. It's not "magic" it's grace.

Stephen63 said:

There.....All fixed!...

Angela53510 · Oct 14, 2016

AbigailZeke said:

I never said, nor even implied that we should blame God when we are not healed. In fact, the whole point is that God is sovereign and in control. He has a perfect will for our lives. It doesn't necessarily fit into these neat little boxes you Word Fatih people have created.

Like:

God is love, therefore he doesn't want his children hurting. I guess these people were never parents! My kids got spanked (shock!) and scolded and lost privileges when they did wrong things. They were given structure and sometimes that structure wasn't pleasant for them -including going to bed at a reasonable hour, eating properly, going to church, etc. But, wow, despite such an "unloving" mom, my kids not only turned out extremely well, and are very happy, with good marriages and jobs, they also love me and my husband.

Why?

Because they were children who needed to be corrected and disciplined and given boundaries and limits. And they are much happier adults than so many people, because they were totally loved, but also we did not cater to their whims and every demand.

As Christians, God's ultimate purpose for us, is to become mature. We do not become mature by having temper tantrums and claiming and demanding things from God, including healing or wealth. Sometimes it is part of God's plan to heal someone. But not because they demanded, but because God knew they would glorify him. And maybe that was part of their path to maturity.

Besides the fact that healing is NOT included in the atonement (and that is Scriptural, not an opinion!) sickness exists in this world as a result of the Fall.That is not God's fault, nor the believer's. It is Satan and Adam and Eve who sinned in the garden, and caused so many good things to come crashing down, including living forever in perfect health.

I don't know where you Word Faith people get his terrible dichotomy that it must be someone's "fault" or that we need to blame someone when a person is not healed. God gets all the glory when someone is healed, but he is not a failure when someone is not healed, and neither are we. God's ways are not our ways!

I love the way you judgemental people who only know the bible through the eyes of these blasphemous Word Faith teachers love to quote Romans 8:1. This is a verse I memorized long ago!

"Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1

So why do you judge and condemn me because I am not healed?? God has given me the confidence and security of his Holy Spirit to walk with me, and he is changing me for his glory. It hasn't been an easy road, but it has been an exciting journey, knowing that I am not condemned because God has other purposes in mind for my life. Doing chaplain work was part of that. And counseling those who are broken and hurting! What a ministry to almost everyone, which only being sick, and having to face up to the truth that God is totally in control, and that the Word Faith heresy is damnable and from the pit of hell, has freed me to care for and love those who are sick and dying.

I just pity all of you poor people, with your limiting view of God, which comes from idolizing internet preachers (your pastor, in our case, Abby!) who promise instant healing and wealth, and thereby present a lie to the lost, and that this lie obscures the amazing and loving God we have - who promised through Jesus death and resurrection to heal our souls, and save us from our sins!

I pity the lost who come looking for physical healing, instead of spiritual healing, and when they are not healed, they walk away from God, when in fact, they are walking away from this heresy that God's will is for all to be healed.

Once again, I can post many verses and I never see the Word Faith people posting, except out of context verses they hav twisted to their own devices.

Stephen63 · Oct 14, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

Christ was enthroned as a man? Jesus remains human flesh? Where did you get this?
The Jesus that Daniel saw is the same one John saw in Revelation. He's not a man in Heaven..... He's God.
The only place I found this was in Mormonism.

Gr8grace · Oct 14, 2016

Stephen63 said:

You really don't understand what Christ actually did? What God actually did for us? The hypo-static union?

He is the God-Man on His throne. You bet He is 100% glorified human flesh and 100% deity in Heaven. He is mankind's High Priest.........Only someone who shares in humanity can be in that position.

And He will be 100% true humanity(glorified) and 100% Deity...............forever.

Grace777x70 · Oct 14, 2016

Gr8grace said:

Amen...this is why He is our Advocate and stands in our place as us because we are one spirit in Him. Unfortunately not knowing this truth helps to create a man-centered works based righteousness religion which unknowingly denies the work of Christ in our lives.

Stephen63 · Oct 14, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

Gr8grace said:

You people, as usual, don't know what you're talking about. Hypostatic union was a teaching from the 4th century. secondly, it only talked about this union while Jesus was living before the cross. Thirdly this a doctrine of the RCC.
Since you don't read your Bible, let me post it for you:
1 Corinthians 15:40-53 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. [SUP]41 [/SUP]There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. [SUP]42 [/SUP]So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; [SUP]43 [/SUP]it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; [SUP]44 [/SUP]it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. [SUP]45 [/SUP]So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME a living soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. [SUP]46 [/SUP]However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual. [SUP]47 [/SUP]The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. [SUP]48 [/SUP]As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly. [SUP]49 [/SUP]Just as we have borne the image of the earthy, we will also bear the image of the heavenly. [SUP]50 [/SUP]Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. [SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, [SUP]52 [/SUP]in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. [SUP]53 [/SUP]For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Will you hypergracers pleeeeeze read your bibles?

1 John 3:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

It's stupid, idiotic, in fact, that you guys post absolute crap & call it doctrine. Apparently those that believe hypergrace will swallow anything.

eph610 · Oct 14, 2016

beta said:

SIN is a CHOICE not some power you cannot control....Gen 4.6-7 & James 1.13-16

LaurenTM · Oct 14, 2016

beta said:

this response to the op is one very big assumption

and I see this consistently whenever people confuse works with fruit and seem to think that works are fruit and they are not!

first of all, no one should assume another believer does not think they need to obey the moral laws of God...ALL humans are born with that knowledge...we know we should not lie, steal, murder etc...so why are some believers taking every opportunity to tell other believers what everyone already knows?

could you point out where it has been revealed that the op continues in sin and believes a false gospel?

where does your accusation that she limits Christ's power come from?

don't you have the assurance of faith in Christ for salvation or do you imagine you can add anything to what Christ has accomplished?

don't you know that works are ordained by God and not our own efforts? not many are actually willing to put it all aside and say "Use me God...which often results in something we did not have in mind."

where do you suppose the desire to do anything for God comes from? your own goodness perhaps?

we can work on our fruit though...Jesus is the husbandman..have you allowed Him to prune you?

ladylynn · Oct 14, 2016

Stephen63 said:

No., you just messed it up Stephen63.

Also you need to read the whole post in it's context. Are you one of those "sourpusses" who won't allow another believer the right to believe differently than you do? If you don't want to believe the promises in the same way I do that is AOK. We are 2 very different people and it's obvious we have very different beliefs and ways of interpreting. We can disagree all we want but personal attacks are fruitless and only cause strife.

I watch how they do it in the political scene now with Clinton and Trump. One attacks the other. The different tactics used., the misrepresentations and the reporting and tweaking of words said and how they were said. Let it not be said of us Christians EVER.

ladylynn · Oct 14, 2016

LaurenTM said:

Thank YOU Lauren! At times I wonder "what did I miss!!!??" What did I write that EVER gave anyone the idea in any way shape or form "not" to live a morally sound life? It's a given for me when writing to most people here that we are to live honestly before God and man. Thank you for stating the obvious so often on these threads.

Some days I actually think posting on these threads and being misunderstood can be so tiring. How often does a person have to state and re state the obvious to the same people? Sometimes posting can be a major blessing and other times it's HIGHLY OVER RATED.

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