THE RAPTURE

[miknik5]

All this talk of the Bride. Let's be clear. ALL WHO ARE SAVED ARE THE BRIDE. THAT MEANS ALL SAVED JEWS AND CHRISTIANS. There isn't going to be a wedding where any saved person is left out.

Keep in mind also that we are grafted in with the Jews. It isn't the other way around. It's their olive tree. They are the natural and we are the wild. The wedding was first mentioned in the OT and at the time, it didn't apply to any Gentile.

Well that was a good post. I agree

now on to the two remaining questions:
what is the work of those who did not love their lives to the death but held to the TESTIMONY of JESUS
And now this new one:
where is CHRIST's SPIRIT?
if HE is separate from THE FATHER there must be two HOLY SPIRITS In Heaven then?

 

[miknik5]

And by the way the question about the Wedding Banquet wasn't really directed to you was it?
why are you annoyed about "all this discussion about the Bride and The BRIDEGROOM's BANQUET"?

 

[miknik5]

You believe in this order:

1. Christ comes and snatches the Church off the planet and takes them to heaven.
2. The GT starts and the Antichrist comes and fools all the "left behind" weak Christians
3. Christ returns and rescues the "left behinders" who weren't slaughtered.

I believe:

1. The GT starts and the Antichrist comes and fools many
2. Christ returns and rescues those who weren't slaughtered.

What does the Bible teach? Do you find an earlier rapture anywhere in Mat 24:3-28? Do you find an earlier return in 2 Thes 2?

What we find is so many warnings NOT to invent your item #1.

I believe in HIS WORD AND PROMISES when the day comes that I and my family receive all the promises of GOD will be on that day when HE chooses. I don't really concern myself about that at all I just know that there will be that day and so I wait trusting that HE will make sir on that Peomise when HE comes again to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him

 

[PlainWord]

And by the way the question about the Wedding Banquet wasn't really directed to you was it?
why are you annoyed about "all this discussion about the Bride and The BRIDEGROOM's BANQUET"?

The haughtiness of some wishing to exclude fellow Christians, creating classes of Christians, is offensive. I wasn't annoyed, just wanted to set the record straight on this issue. There are those who believe in the Replacement Doctrine, that the Church replaced Israel as God's people. That idea is offensive to Israel. We are grafted in to make them jealous. We never replace them.

 

[PlainWord]

I believe in HIS WORD AND PROMISES when the day comes that I and my family receive all the promises of GOD will be on that day when HE chooses. I don't really concern myself about that at all I just know that there will be that day and so I wait trusting that HE will make sir on that Peomise when HE comes again to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him

Good!! The day is coming when some will tell you that Christ is here. On that day, DO NOT GO OUT!! As long as you remember this, you will be fine.

 

[miknik5]

The haughtiness of some wishing to exclude fellow Christians, creating classes of Christians, is offensive. I wasn't annoyed, just wanted to set the record straight on this issue. There are those who believe in the Replacement Doctrine, that the Church replaced Israel as God's people. That idea is offensive to Israel. We are grafted in to make them jealous. We never replace them.

Your continued skirting around the two questions I asked you is telling in and of itself.

And now your trying to shift the eyes onto me as being difficult is still your skirting the two questions asked

 

[miknik5]

One Foundation and One Garment
One Door

either in or outside

 

[Ahwatukee]

I would like your understanding of the WEDDING BANQUET and who will be there with regards to these three different "ages": the church, the saints, and the "Gentiles"

The church/bride. She is seen in heaven receiving her fine linen, white and clean, as recorded in Rev.19:6-8

"Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!

For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”

And to further prove that the church/bride will have already been caught up to heaven, the bride is seen wearing her fine linen and riding on white horses, as she follows the Lord our of heaven, when he returns to the earth to end the age, as recorded in Rev.19:14. And regarding the wedding feast, Jesus said the following:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven."

"People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God."

 

[miknik5]

And those under the altar who died and were martyred for holding to their testimony, what is their garment?
because they too were given a white garment and told to wait

in fact everyone before the throne from all manners of people have the same white garment

you have John asking about these garments because these garments are significant and no one. And no one can come to the wedding unless they have that garment Matthew 22

 

[Ahwatukee]

Sorry brother -- and -- "no offense" -- but -- until you are able to "shed" the "mind-lock" that has you believing that Daniel 9:24-27 is talking about the Abomination of Desolation - and - that the three words 'he' in verse 27 are referring to [ anyone else but Christ ] - and - everything listed in verse 27 is [ anything other than the accomplishment of Christ ] - and - that there is a gap in the 70 weeks - and - that there is a seven-year tribulation period ( because of the erroneous interpretation of these verses ) -- ( "Did I forget anything?" ) -- you will - never, ever, ever - be able to properly understand the end-times scenario.

First of all, no one taught this information to me, for I have been studying scripture on my own for many years. Second, the error that you claim that I have, is the same one that is keeping you from understanding. In Matt.24:15, Jesus quoted Daniel regarding the abomination being set up in the holy place. Second, Jesus cannot possibly be the "He" of Dan.9:27 and that because it would have him as the one who sets up the abomination, which is against God. And thirdly, the event of the abomination being set up is still future, with Christ returning 3 1/2 years later, sometime after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

But I'm sure that you are going to stick to your belief, just as I am going to stick to mine. We'll just have to see how everything plays out.

 

[popeye]

I would like to know about those who did not love their lives even to the death but held to the TESTIMONY OF JESUS.

You who have studied long land hard, tell me what did they do that "their works" precede them?

It's just saying that they did not deny Jesus at martyrdom.

That is how they overcame.

Postrib adherents seem to think an "overcomer" is someone that skips the gathering,rapture,and gets chased into a cave by the Satan man.

 

[popeye]

And by the way the question about the Wedding Banquet wasn't really directed to you was it?
why are you annoyed about "all this discussion about the Bride and The BRIDEGROOM's BANQUET"?

Are you aware pw places the rapture AFTER the mil?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello miknik5,

And those under the altar who died and were martyred for holding to their testimony, what is their garment? because
they too were given a white garment and told to wait

While it is true that probably everyone who inherits eternal life will receive a white robe, not everyone belongs to the church. There are multiple groups, the church, the great tribulation saints (GTS) who become believers after the church has been removed and during the time of God's wrath, the 144,000 who come out of the twelve tribes of Israel and the woman/Israel. God has a certain number to complete the church and once that number is reached, then Lord will descend and gather the church both dead and living, which will bring the church period to a close. During that last seven years, you will have those who become believers after the church has been removed, who are the GTS, the 144,000 and Israel. None of the last three groups are ever referred to as belonging to the church.

you have John asking about these garments because these garments are significant and no one.

John is not asking about the garments, but is asked by the elder who that group is wearing white robes and where they came from. Keep in mind that John was previously asked to write letters to the seven churches. You have to ask yourself the question, "why is the elder asking John who this innumerable group is." Since he was previously asked to write letters to the church, which would the elder be asking him about this group. It automatically infers that they are not the church. Also, and as I said earlier, they are never referred to as church, but saints.


Revelation 1 thru 3 = Believers are referred to as the church only. The word "saints" is not found within those same chapters.


Revelation 4 thru 18 = Believers are called saints only and the word "Church" is never used.

God did this to show a distinction between the church and the great tribulation saints, and in doing so also reveals to the reader that, from chapter 4 onward the church is no longer on the earth.

Another solid reason supporting that the church is removed before the 1st seal is opened, is because from Rev.4 onwards is a detailed account of God's wrath, which is carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This is significant in that, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it on our behalf, rescuing us from it - 1 Thes.1:10, 5:9. Which means that the church cannot be here for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It would be like counting the wrath that was poured out on Christ as being of no value.

 

[popeye]

And those under the altar who died and were martyred for holding to their testimony, what is their garment?
because they too were given a white garment and told to wait

in fact everyone before the throne from all manners of people have the same white garment

you have John asking about these garments because these garments are significant and no one. And no one can come to the wedding unless they have that garment Matthew 22

And notice that immediately into the GT,WE SEE THE innumerable number of martyrs.

Confirming my observation that the AC kills all with out the mark.

Why are they not under the altar?

Note the condition to come out from under the altar:" ...untill your number is fulfilled.."

The number is fulfilled....they all are in the Gen population of heaven.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And those under the altar who died and were martyred for holding to their testimony, what is their

Sorry, I got "caught up" (pun intended) in the second part of the question and forgot to answer the first part. Regarding the 5th seal, those souls under the altar in heaven, these could possibly be those who will have died as a result of the 2nd seal, when the rider on the red horse is given power to take peace from the earth so that they kill each other. If that is in fact how they died, then they will have died during the early part of God's wrath.

 

[miknik5]

Sorry, I got "caught up" (pun intended) in the second part of the question and forgot to answer the first part. Regarding the 5th seal, those souls under the altar in heaven, these could possibly be those who will have died as a result of the 2nd seal, when the rider on the red horse is given power to take peace from the earth so that they kill each other. If that is in fact how they died, then they will have died during the early part of God's wrath.

Do you think there is only ONE HOUSE and that CHRIST came to bring together under ONE....one people marked as belonging to GOD?

 

[miknik5]

It's just saying that they did not deny Jesus at martyrdom.

That is how they overcame.

Postrib adherents seem to think an "overcomer" is someone that skips the gathering,rapture,and gets chased into a cave by the Satan man.

Not by power or by might sayeth The Lord

 

[miknik5]

Hello miknik5,



While it is true that probably everyone who inherits eternal life will receive a white robe, not everyone belongs to the church. There are multiple groups, the church, the great tribulation saints (GTS) who become believers after the church has been removed and during the time of God's wrath, the 144,000 who come out of the twelve tribes of Israel and the woman/Israel. God has a certain number to complete the church and once that number is reached, then Lord will descend and gather the church both dead and living, which will bring the church period to a close. During that last seven years, you will have those who become believers after the church has been removed, who are the GTS, the 144,000 and Israel. None of the last three groups are ever referred to as belonging to the church.



John is not asking about the garments, but is asked by the elder who that group is wearing white robes and where they came from. Keep in mind that John was previously asked to write letters to the seven churches. You have to ask yourself the question, "why is the elder asking John who this innumerable group is." Since he was previously asked to write letters to the church, which would the elder be asking him about this group. It automatically infers that they are not the church. Also, and as I said earlier, they are never referred to as church, but saints.


Revelation 1 thru 3 = Believers are referred to as the church only. The word "saints" is not found within those same chapters.


Revelation 4 thru 18 = Believers are called saints only and the word "Church" is never used.

God did this to show a distinction between the church and the great tribulation saints, and in doing so also reveals to the reader that, from chapter 4 onward the church is no longer on the earth.

Another solid reason supporting that the church is removed before the 1st seal is opened, is because from Rev.4 onwards is a detailed account of God's wrath, which is carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This is significant in that, believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath and that because Jesus already suffered it on our behalf, rescuing us from it - 1 Thes.1:10, 5:9. Which means that the church cannot be here for the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. It would be like counting the wrath that was poured out on Christ as being of no value.

I realized my etrorbin saying it was Johnqho asked. I know that it was an angel who asked him

 

[miknik5]

Oh boy scratch out my last post. I have no idea what "auto correct" did.

I realized my error. I know that it wasn't John who actually asked the angel but that it was the angel who asked John

 

[miknik5]

And notice that immediately into the GT,WE SEE THE innumerable number of martyrs.

Confirming my observation that the AC kills all with out the mark.

Why are they not under the altar?

Note the condition to come out from under the altar:" ...untill your number is fulfilled.."

The number is fulfilled....they all are in the Gen population of heaven.

Look at the "New Jerusalem" and that there are 24 elders making up that "One Construct"