Todd White - Twisted Grace is created by the Enemy

[UnderGrace]

Being convinced of God’s “love” is not near enough evidence. Muslims believe in love, Jews believe in love, even Buddhists, and Hindus believe in love.

I have spent time in temples in Japan (Hindu) and the love and serenity was very very impressive. However did they know Jesus as Saviour. NO

The evidence of whether a person is truly called by Christ unto salvation comes following this reflective “convincing” of God’s love through the determined response to 1) adore Christ, 2) love others, 3) obey Scripture, 4) turn from sin, and 5) lay down all idols! 1John 4 and 5

The love of God is a central joy in the relationship with Christ and fellowship within a local church. However, it is NOT the only evidence of proper doctrine nor application within the church.

Again I will pray.

It wasn't cool when I was there..it was 117 degrees for about one week of the month. 98 was cool to us then...lol

I have been there a few times as well as my brother ( he was there when the gold dust fell - it's funny to hear him talk about it. People tell him all the time - that's not real - he just says.." I was there and saw it" ). And the gold dust fell when they were singing "Our Father".

Here is a video of it.

[video=youtube;mLtGrvw2ppo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLtGrvw2ppo[/video]

The music worship there is awesome and the people genuinely love each other. After spending a month there - I can honestly say that these people love the Lord and others with all they have. The atmosphere there is one of peace and love. They have a specific purpose in the body of Christ as do other people that gather in His name.

 

[Willie-T]

The almost laughable thing is the multitude of straight-laced churchgoers who swear they will only accept a God who does things their way.

They seem not to have read too much of the many, many bizarre things God did in the Bible. That book is chock full of wild chaos.

 

[Grace777x70]

Well, I do not need to listen or read any heretic hunters, in this day and age I can hear their twists and turns with my own ears right from their own websites.

I thank God for those heretic hunters though, as you like to call them, because many of them contend for the truth and they expose error.

While yes I do take many with great caution, I also know that false teaching is also abounding from the legalistic to the those who abuse the doctrine of grace and God's love.

Well my bible tells me the (doxa) glory of God is not glitter, and those who encounter it in Scripture, fall to their faces in fear. Secondly, Jesus Christ came and walked earth as the glory of God, I do need not signs and wonders, I have the real deal already!!!

I refuse to give glitter clouds, feathers, or church drunkenness as something from God...... it is chaos.

Should we then consider that Bethel’s ministry of “Grave Sucking” or their new “Prophecy of the Tattoo” ministry, dead-raising team, healing rooms, post-tribulationalism, or the fact that their youth frolic through tunnels of fire in orgie induced euphoria as part of God's instruction to us as believers?

Really is this what the apostles did? Did they go to the graves of the prophets and suck up their energy?

I haven't mentioned his false doctrine of Jesus emptying himself of divinity and became divine while on earth or some such nonsense. This is all available directly from Johnson as well.

To grow to true depths in God’s grace one should not need an emotional pulpit show, why does one need glitter dumped on them and to leave church feeling inebriated. They can easily receive that Monday-Friday.

We should attend church to “grow in the knowledge of their Lord and Savior and to know Him and His sufferings, knowing that these light and temporary troubles are storing up for them a glory that outweighs them all.” (2 Cor 4:17)

I will pray for you, there are many veils today not just the legal ones.

I was there for a month and never saw or heard any of the stuff you are talking about. Where did you get all this information? Is it on the Bethel website?..or did you get from "someplace else"?

I have never heard of these "grace sucking" or "prophecy of the tattoo" or "dead-raising team"...before in my life...now healing rooms I have heard of and know of people that did get healed in the prayer rooms.

Actually a man by the name of John G. Lake implemented "praying for sick" people and so many were healed that they called Spokane - the healthiest city in America when they had these "healing rooms" for praying for the sick.

Here is a link that talks about it.

Healing Rooms - History of John G. Lake

As far as why does God sometimes show signs and wonders which go against what our own experiences are?..I don't know..you can ask Him.

Thank you for praying for me. I love it when others pray for me. Please pray Paul's prayers in Eph 1 and 3 for me. Thanks and the Lord bless you today!

 

[UnderGrace]

Aside from all the shenanigans (I guess that is a pejorative term but I think it fits) which I can give you evidence of, he does teach that Jesus became divine throughout his ministry....do you also agree with this teaching?

I do not take things personally and I try not to write in a personal way.

I do think an honest open discussion is important, it is not about slandering (as some have tried to say to stop the dialogue) which would be making false accusations it is about making sure that there is a true depiction of the teacher against the truth of scripture at least for the benefit of any new believer or lurker.

But if anyone gets nasty I definitely will not come back to this discussion. I only came back to contend for the truth because love is only love within truth who is Jesus and what He taught.

I was there for a month and never saw or heard any of the stuff you are talking about. Where did you get all this information? Is it on the Bethel website?..or did you get from "someplace else"?

I have never heard of these "grace sucking" or "prophecy of the tattoo" or "dead-raising team"...before in my life...now healing rooms I have heard of and know of people that did get healed in the prayer rooms.

Actually a man by the name of John G. Lake implemented "praying for sick" people and so many were healed that they called Spokane - the healthiest city in America when they had these "healing rooms" for praying for the sick.

Here is a link that talks about it.

Healing Rooms - History of John G. Lake

As far as why does God sometimes show signs and wonders which go against what our own experiences are?..I don't know..you can ask Him.

Thank you for praying for me. I love it when others pray for me. Please pray Paul's prayers in Eph 1 and 3 for me. Thanks and the Lord bless you today!

 

[UnderGrace]

That God continues to work in our world and do miracles, of course He can and does, so I am not saying this is not possible.

I was there for a month and never saw or heard any of the stuff you are talking about. Where did you get all this information? Is it on the Bethel website?..or did you get from "someplace else"?

I have never heard of these "grace sucking" or "prophecy of the tattoo" or "dead-raising team"...before in my life...now healing rooms I have heard of and know of people that did get healed in the prayer rooms.

Actually a man by the name of John G. Lake implemented "praying for sick" people and so many were healed that they called Spokane - the healthiest city in America when they had these "healing rooms" for praying for the sick.

Here is a link that talks about it.

Healing Rooms - History of John G. Lake

As far as why does God sometimes show signs and wonders which go against what our own experiences are?..I don't know..you can ask Him.

Thank you for praying for me. I love it when others pray for me. Please pray Paul's prayers in Eph 1 and 3 for me. Thanks and the Lord bless you today!

 

[NotmebutHim]

Aside from all the shenanigans (I guess that is a pejorative term but I think it fits) which I can give you evidence of, he does teach that Jesus became divine throughout his ministry....do you also agree with this teaching?

I do not take things personally and I try not to write in a personal way.

I do think an honest open discussion is important, it is not about slandering (as some have tried to say to stop the dialogue) which would be making false accusations it is about making sure that there is a true depiction of the teacher against the truth of scripture at least for the benefit of any new believer or lurker.

But if anyone gets nasty I definitely will not come back to this discussion. I only came back to contend for the truth because love is only love within truth who is Jesus and what He taught.

"And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Galatians 6:9

 

[Grace777x70]

Aside from all the shenanigans (I guess that is a pejorative term but I think it fits) which I can give you evidence of, he does teach that Jesus became divine throughout his ministry....do you also agree with this teaching?

I do not take things personally and I try not to write in a personal way.

I do think an honest open discussion is important, it is not about slandering (as some have tried to say to stop the dialogue) which would be making false accusations it is about making sure that there is a true depiction of the teacher against the truth of scripture at least for the benefit of any new believer or lurker.

But if anyone gets nasty I definitely will not come back to this discussion. I only came back to contend for the truth because love is only love within truth who is Jesus and what He taught.

This is the first I have ever heard that Jesus became divine throughout His ministry. That's a new one on me.

Could you point me to where this is being said...not a heretic hunter's website as they are known to "twist" what is being said by others. I would like the sermon from Johnson himself so that I can see what was really being said.

When I was there for a month - they took up an offering for another local church that was hurting bad for funds. This church spoke the most vehemently against Bethel Church - and yet Bethel walked in love towards them and blessed them and bailed them out of their troubles. This is love and grace in action.

Have you ever yourself actually listened to one of his talks? He is full of the wisdom of the Lord.

Here is a good one about renewing the mind...

[video=youtube;605ciBotGvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605ciBotGvE[/video]

 

[UnderGrace]

Have listened to his sermons, I did not say these man were not good at what they present and that they do not do good works, they probably do more good works than many churches.

I get it..... there are many "dead" churches and people flock to the other churches that promote love and healings etc., etc.,

I will find the clips and/or statements and post them, I have tons of material I like to keep tabs on stuff having come out of similar deceptions.

Well we all need eyes to see, and sadly for me I have had to learn the very hard way of some of the deception in these movements.

So yes I am cautious since I, myself, do not want to be ashamed at the end of the race and I would not want that for anyone else either.

2 Timothy, Paul commands young Timothy to, “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ASHAMED, accurately handling the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15)

I teach summer school, so I will get back to it this evening I hope after some marking gets done.

This is the first I have ever heard that Jesus became divine throughout His ministry. That's a new one on me.

Could you point me to where this is being said...not a heretic hunter's website as they are known to "twist" what is being said by others. I would like the sermon from Johnson himself so that I can see what was really being said.

When I was there for a month - they took up an offering for another local church that was hurting bad for funds. This church spoke the most vehemently against Bethel Church - and yet Bethel walked in love towards them and blessed them and bailed them out of their troubles. This is love and grace in action.

Have you ever yourself actually listened to one of his talks? He is full of the wisdom of the Lord.

Here is a good one about renewing the mind...

[video=youtube;605ciBotGvE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=605ciBotGvE[/video]

 

[UnderGrace]

"And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart." - Galatians 6:9

Thank you NotmebutHm, it was not easy to come back to this thread. It is a very difficult subject for me and I know far more than I want to. I say this in sincerity not to boast by any means.

 

[Willie-T]

It is much wiser to say. "I think I know far more than I want to." Gamaliel warned us about that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

New Apostolic Reformation/ Latter Rain (Todd White part of this group)

Some key beliefs of the NAR:

We've entered a "2nd Apostolic Age" (starting in 2001); the church should take over the world (dominionism); a great end time harvest/outpouring will occur once we battle enough demons, perform enough miracles and unify under these new Apostles; God is giving new revelation to his Prophets/Apostles but they will make many mistakes in the process and that's okay, but following the Bible too closely makes you "religious" and narrow-minded...

May I ask where you got this from?

 

[UnderGrace]

Grace777x70 I will PM you directly.

Willie-T, you do not know me, therefore do not assume to know me or what I think or what I know.

Yet, I am not surprised you would employ the counsel of Gamaliel.

But then again I respect freedom of speech so use your words to attack if you believe you must.

 

[UnderGrace]

May I ask where you got this from?

It is in my repository of information, I will look for it again.
This is just general public knowledge stuff which they themselves talk about in their writings and talks, I just posted it as a quick snapshot.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is in my repository of information, I will look for it again.
This is just general public knowledge stuff which they themselves talk about in their writings and talks, I just posted it as a quick snapshot.

Just want to make sure, So many "hate" threads, of people who got information from a biased website to prove their case.. Not saying you did, Just want to have proof firsthand before I just take it as truth..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

as for the OP. I think we need to seperate the gospel from other things, If the gospel is correct. and people are being won to Christ. that is what matters the rest let God take care of himself.

I do not believe in faith healers. I believe God heals. I have witnessed it as God has answered our corporate prayers with things which can only be seen as a miracle.

People like world harvest and other evil churches has turned me off on healing, I think people do it for money,, Not saying they all do. but many do. and this is using christs name for sin.. And is evil

But I will not challenge or judge people and say they are all evil and way .. I think we need to get away from this..

 

[UnderGrace]

I agree. If their healings are fake, which yes does happen sadly, when you investigate further to what they teach either by way of what they say or write you will see a weak doctrine around the person of Jesus.

I sometimes will use a secondary source, however only as a reference, now a days primary sources ( as in direct from the horses mouth) are also plentiful.
I am glad you are cautious as well.
I think that it is not about saying anything about the person, evil, corrupt etc,. etc., (God will make that judgement), it just about exposing their words and doctrine. These are the true fruits we are to look for, their words, Jesus said so Himself!

Nice to have you back posting....missed your posts!

as for the OP. I think we need to seperate the gospel from other things, If the gospel is correct. and people are being won to Christ. that is what matters the rest let God take care of himself.

I do not believe in faith healers. I believe God heals. I have witnessed it as God has answered our corporate prayers with things which can only be seen as a miracle.

People like world harvest and other evil churches has turned me off on healing, I think people do it for money,, Not saying they all do. but many do. and this is using christs name for sin.. And is evil

But I will not challenge or judge people and say they are all evil and way .. I think we need to get away from this..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree. If their healings are fake, which yes does happen sadly, when you investigate further to what they teach either by way of what they say or write you will see a weak doctrine around the person of Jesus.

I sometimes will use a secondary source, however only as a reference, now a days primary sources ( as in direct from the horses mouth) are also plentiful.
I am glad you are cautious as well.
I think that it is not about saying anything about the person, evil, corrupt etc,. etc., (God will make that judgement), it just about exposing their words and doctrine. These are the true fruits we are to look for, their words, Jesus said so Himself!

Nice to have you back posting....missed your posts!

I actually have seen a flyer from world harvest for a prayer gathering, It says if you give so much money, He (Pastor Rod Parsley) will guarantee an answer to prayer. no matter what the prayer is (is, if you give this much, one pray will be answered, that much, 2 prayers etc etc)

These people are evil.. Especially when the pastor lives such an extravagant lifestyle..

 

[UnderGrace]

So So sad for so many reasons.

Sometimes, when I try to talk about Jesus to people, I always get these false teachers thrown in my face, do they do so much damage to our witness.

The other more subtle workers of deceit make me sad too because they create a lot of discord within the church and sometimes reveal themselves for the ravenous wolves they are and cause people to fall.

I actually have seen a flyer from world harvest for a prayer gathering, It says if you give so much money, He (Pastor Rod Parsley) will guarantee an answer to prayer. no matter what the prayer is (is, if you give this much, one pray will be answered, that much, 2 prayers etc etc)

These people are evil.. Especially when the pastor lives such an extravagant lifestyle..

 

[Willie-T]

Grace777x70 I will PM you directly.

Willie-T, you do not know me, therefore do not assume to know me or what I think or what I know.

Yet, I am not surprised you would employ the counsel of Gamaliel.

But then again I respect freedom of speech so use your words to attack if you believe you must.

Aw, poor lil' puppy, she got her feelings hurt.

 

[UnderGrace]

Aw, poor lil' puppy, she got her feelings hurt.

Willie-T, nope you are the one with hurt feelings because you feel the need to attack. And I am a kitten by the way!

If I do post here, it will be because I care about some of the lurkers that may be around, cause your mind is made up.

I was there once too, so I know about being defensive. Yup Truth hurts.

I will pray for you too!