You Are A New Creation!

[PeterJens]

Phrase like "our lenses" is non biblical ideas.
There is a concept that the law was created to give failure, rather than
the law was a guide to new life, sacrifices to resolving failure and relationship
with God to provide righteousness.

So a hyper-legalism is created to justify failure and then guarantee the impossibility
of real victory. Embedded here is just a failure of a good relationship or understanding
of the Lord. And those most vocal are disappointed ex-legalists who find relationships
hard and do not know good emotional balance.

But why such a defeatest look from those who know love working in their hearts,
the Holy Spirit who overcomes all the desires of this world. It suggests to me actually
these two realities are not at work in them at all, but rather are trying to justify
their failure to resolve their sin with their faith.

 

[Grace777x70]

I will speak for myself on the issue of living holy in the Lord. I have up the scripture Titus 2:11-12 at least over 50x times. I say preach the grace of God as it is the only thing that teaches how to live godly in this present world.

I have said this about 20x times at least about sin.

Sin changes our perspective on things and causes us to not look at our Father in the right light of who He truly is. ( The same as Adam and Eve did when they hid from Him even though He was still coming to visit with them and He still took care of them )

Sin also affects our ability to have harmonious relationships with others and it is a bad witness for the Lord Jesus.

Sin is destructive as it deceives us and it distorts our view of God, our selves and of others. The only way to overcome sin is through the knowledge of what Christ has done for us in His finished work.

We chose to live holy lives because we are just being who we truly are in Christ - not to maintain right standing with God. This living good holy lives creates right relationships with people, it will not give our enemy an influence in our lives and it is a good witness to the world.

I have also put up this about living holy in our behavior at least 50x times too.

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us in Christ..in our inner man..the new creation.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior outwardly to reflect our true self in the Lord now. It's definitely a process!.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."


The question remains..is it us doing it by our own self-effort?..or the life of Christ with His fruit bearing in and through our lives as we participate with the Holy Spirit as He transforms us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Show us where the Greek says "it has become new"...show us the "it" part that you have "added".

3rd person singular

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Phrase like "our lenses" is non biblical ideas.
There is a concept that the law was created to give failure, rather than
the law was a guide to new life, sacrifices to resolving failure and relationship
with God to provide righteousness.

Dead giveaway for hyper grace. Prince started it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

3rd person singular

View attachment 155419

Full verse

 

[Grace777x70]

3rd person singular

View attachment 155419

There is no Greek translation that says "it has become". It is talking about the new things that have come anyway.

I just checked 30 translation and not one of them has your "it" in that verse.

Is the inner man in Christ which is the new creation and "it" too?

What is your real reason for deviating from 30 translations to try to make the new creation "appear" to be an "it"? ( the "have become" is referring to the new things anyway )

 

[Grace777x70]

Full verse

View attachment 155420

Could you show me this source please as the 2 sources I looked - they did not have your "it has become"

 

[Grace777x70]

Dead giveaway for hyper grace. Prince started it.

nonsense - the use of the term lens just means the way one looks at something. You can read the scriptures through the lens of the old covenant or through the finished work of Christ.


Lens definition in contempary usage

Contemporary Examples

• As often happens, people on this side of the Atlantic view this through the lens of our own policy debates.
  
  Those accomplishments are mostly viewed through the lens of education or social policy.

 

[Cee]

I actually like HRFTD's input. He has a different outlook on things.

Now I could be wrong, but I believe what he is saying is that we do not become saved by looking at ourselves, but looking and keep our focus on Christ.

Thus the translation he is showing is that the "new creation" is not individual, but jointly in Christ. So the new creation is not talking about each of us becoming a new man, but jointly all of us being a new man in Christ?

I have trouble with this because of a few reasons.

God said He would write the law on our heart and minds. And we would desire His ways.

But HRFTD said that we don't have a new mind. But we also have Scripture that says we have a new mind in Christ. Now this could be pointing us to the Holy Spirit as our new mind and basically we are taking orders from Him. Which I think is an interesting idea to explore.

From what I can gather HRFTD does believe in salvation, us being joined with His Spirit, but where he disagrees is that the focus on who we are in Christ, but more who Christ is (as He is the new man).

The Scripture that comes to me about the Lord telling us who we are is this one:

Matt 16:15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock[SUP]b[/SUP] I will build my church, and the gates of hell[SUP]c[/SUP] shall not prevail against it.

My question is, if we are looking at Him, and He decides to tell us who we are in His eyes and by His grace. Who are we to disagree?

 

[LaurenTM]

Originally Posted by LaurenTM

have you seen where people here are denying that they sin? I am not making some of the connections you appear to make but I think we need to be careful of guilt by association

Lets row back on some of this theology. Most people experience the Lord daily, in their walk without working out what it actually means or verbalising.

My goal is simple. To talk about purity and righteousness. This is about does
the cross mean we can find this place. It is something I realised I had stopped
thinking about or morality or standards.

With some believers to even raise this question was to bring about condemnation.
To talk about the sermon on the mount was only bringing guilt to people.
I had not come across this before. And everytime I have raised this question
EG, grace7 etc have jumped in as antagonists selling a story this is legalism.

This is not following Pauls encouragement of Timothy to live a pure, blameless,
righteous life. This is not legalism put the picture of freedom from sin and
being overcomers.

This gives me the impression there are two different faiths here.

I can't answer for someone else but I can't say I have got the impression anyone here, including people you mention, think it's ok to sin or think sin has no consequence

there is nothing wrong with questioning certainly

there is no forgiveness of sins without accepting that Jesus died on our behalf, so that is the faith that counts

how we live from day to day is probably quite different among different groups and even person to person

I believe that God sorts it all out as He alone can look on the intents and thoughts that we have

 

[Cee]

My thoughts:

Jesus was actually crucified by the religious of His time. People who believed beyond a shadow of a doubt they were correct. But I think today we have held "theology and doctrine" above the simple command to love each other. And it is those WITH this fruit, that know Him. We have justified what "love looks like" when 1 Co 13 and the fruit of the Spirit are crystal clear.

Remember how Jesus said you hypocrite you point out the SPECK in your brother's eye, but forget the LOG in your own.

Looking to find faults in people (a speck) is a far greater sin (a log) than most realize. And if we truly do want to help our brother remove his specks, we should check our own eyes first for logs so we can help him.

Something I think I did myself in these forums a few times. Sorry about that.

I've realized the attitude of thinking we are wise actually makes us fools. And then if we ignore the simple commands of Jesus to love one another because of this self-perceived wisdom. This is what the Bible calls demonic wisdom. Because wisdom that comes from above is "peaceable". And bears every good fruit. I think the idea is wisdom without fruit = demonic.

At the end of the day, Jesus didn't tell me to simply teach, He told me to make disciples and I think that happens by impacting people with my life. Showing the Kingdom with my life and then helping others walk like Christ through my personal life examples. Just as Jesus did.

And I think that's what fruit looks like. Any wisdom/knowledge that takes away from actually living out the commands of Christ, I think we should be wary of.

If our theology, be it hyper, mega, or whatever grace actually produces fruit that looks like love, then amen. And if it doesn't, if it produces works of the flesh like attacking, rage, division, well then maybe we should honor those around us so we can receive their breakthrough.

No matter how smart I am, how powerful I am, or even how much I give of my life, without love it's all empty.

C.

 

[disciplemike]

My thoughts:

Jesus was actually crucified by the religious of His time. People who believed beyond a shadow of a doubt they were correct. But I think today we have held "theology and doctrine" above the simple command to love each other. And it is those WITH this fruit, that know Him. We have justified what "love looks like" when 1 Co 13 and the fruit of the Spirit are crystal clear.

Remember how Jesus said you hypocrite you point out the SPECK in your brother's eye, but forget the LOG in your own.

just a little speck to point out. and of course I have my own speck or log in my eye, (probably). You are correct in saying, each man thinks his own doctrine is the correct one. It is human nature. But humans let emotions get in the way. And about that passage, something most people miss. He does say get the speck out of my own eye first, but THEN I can see clearly help my brother get the log out of his eye - not to ignore either my speck or his log. not posting to argue, just to add a little input. have a good day.

 

[Cee]

Thanks for the comment,

Here's the Scripture:

Matthew 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

My post is regarding:

It's a plank in our eye to try to remove specks out of our brothers' eyes without checking ourselves first.

It's better to have a "speck" than a "plank".

But yeah I agree, we are to help each other out, but also to make sure we are open ourselves to receiving feedback. It doesn't only go one way, right? Lol.

And at the end of the day, it's really all about the intention of our heart to love. And only Holy Spirit knows that.