You Are A New Creation!

[InSpiritInTruth]

Well, you are claiming sinless perfection for yourself, are you not?

This is what I preach....1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

If you do not like those words, take it up with the Lord.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is what I preach....1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

If you do not like those words, take it up with the Lord.

I'll take that as a yes then, you preach sinless perfection. Noted.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I'll take that as a yes then, you preach sinless perfection. Noted.

I preach this->>>>>Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If you do not like those words, take it up with the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'll take that as a yes then, you preach sinless perfection. Noted.

Funny how he got on you for asking him, And now all he does is prove you were right..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It really seems to me as the months go by here and HRFTD posts., he is obsessed with the Gnostics and their teaching. And he seems to continually have a difficult time seeing anything done in the Spirit as being anything but "Gnostic" Because he keeps upholding Gnosticism, he misses the truth of grace and the new birth in Christ. Those of us who uphold the gospel that Jesus brought of grace and truth are somehow confused with this Gnostic thing he has laid hold of. He needs to lay hold of Christ and put off this other manner of a belief system.

Now that's not being honest. I mention gnosticism in the context of hyper grace, and only you and a few others here follow that doctrine.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When I first came to these forums I spoke out against ongoing sin in those who claimed to be "in Christ" and was constantly attacked for preaching one can in fact truly be set free from ongoing sin by faith in Jesus Christ. The mob rule of OSAS followers at the time confessed they sinned every day, and that sin cannot effect their eternal security. Many of the hyper grace camp had at first confessed to the same, even to willful sin, though Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant of sin abides not in the house forever.

Now we have many of the same group now saying they believe are new creations in Christ, so something is amiss here. Either you have been born again and made a new creation in Christ, AND SET FREE FROM THE BONDAGE OF SIN, or you have not.

Imagining yourself as being "in Christ" and set free from sin, WHEN YOU ARE NOT, is just self justification and wishful thinking. Prove your own selves if Christ is truly in you.

It's like them claiming that they have been made the righteousness of GOD in Christ, yet they can't do righteousness.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Being born again of the Spirit is done by God, as we cannot give birth to ourselves. Just as the faith to believe is also a gift from God. But the proof of a true conversion will be in ones words and actions if they are truly walking in the Spirit.

I never implied what you suggested. Also, true conversion is not the same thing as new birth.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I preach this->>>>>Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If you do not like those words, take it up with the Lord.

I like those words very much. And when I finally understood why Jesus was saying that, it changed my life forever. But, before that, it was what kept me from Him.

If those words of His don't bury you, then nothing will.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

John 1:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You are given the right, by receiving him.

which takes humility, because you have to admit, your lost..

The word right in John 1:12 means authority. We have received the authority to overcome sin and thereby become sons of GOD.

 

[Cee]

We do not war against the flesh.

Romans 7 which you are referring to, which happens to be in the middle of Romans 6 and 8, is explaining the need for a Savior. That's why Paul says who will save me from this body of death? And then opens Roman 8 with THEREFORE there is no condemnation to those in Christ.

Romans 7 showed people there IS condemnation to those NOT in Christ. Romans 8 showed them how to be set free of it.

If you want I can go through all 3 chapters and show you how they tie together, so you can be free of this "war" that Christ won for you. As Christians we do not fight FOR victory, we fight FROM victory. Greater is He in us than is in the world. But to some people they have been taught greater is sin's lure than God's freedom.

Didn't Christ say whom the Son sets free IS free indeed?

So why isn't it taught to agree with Him? Those are red letters right?

As far as fighting against the flesh:

Ephesians 6:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age,[SUP][a][/SUP] against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

We fight a spiritual battle, which is casting down thoughts and arguments that disagree with the knowledge of God.

You know those lofty arguments and speculations that somehow we are not actually free even though He says we are. We cast those down.

C.

I do not consider myself greater than the apostle Paul ... who declared that he was at war with his flesh ... for I do what i do not want to do, and do not do what i want to do. Paul made many references to a Christian as a soldier at war ...

We do war against the flesh and against principalities ...

We should take care that we do not consciously deny that this struggle is real and happening lest we fall into complacency?

Fight the good fight until your last breath.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It's like them claiming that they have been made the righteousness of GOD in Christ, yet they can't do righteousness.

That is the "something is amiss" part I was talking about. LOL

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The word right in John 1:12 means authority. We have received the authority to overcome sin and thereby become sons of GOD.

Nope it does not say that. The word overcome sin is not anywhere in the passage, your adding to the word of god.

It says plainly.

Whoever received Jesus is given the authority to be a child of God.. Not by any other means but that they are BORN OF GOD.

Obedience comes because one is a child of God. You have it backwards

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is the "something is amiss" part I was talking about. LOL

except HRFTD is wrong in what he said, so the only thing amiss, is HRFTD's view of what we believe. Because we believe we not only can, but WILL do righteousness.. He is the one who claims one may not do any righteousness, This lose salvation, because they turned, Not us..

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Interesting....I know that my old nature was crucified with Christ. I know it, I know it...it is IN my brain and my heart. BUT Is it appropriate to say we no longer have one? Oh how I wish it were true.

It is the truth. Why would it not be appropriate to say so?

Because we still sin. If it isn't the sin nature doing it, who is it? Can't be my new nature!

Before,you trusted In what you could see In a physical mirror,based off of sense knowledge,now you should look at the spiritual mirror( the WORD of GOD)(the bible) based on faith.

Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)

1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Or it might be that they have been born of the spirit, but their own words and actions prove that they are not sons of GOD.

WOW..........what going on.

Where in the world do you get these strange beliefs? Believers born of the Spirit are not children of God now?

Just by using the term "born' means being birthed. When you were born...were you someone's son?

The son does remain forever in the house. We are children of God.


John 8:35-36 (NASB)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.

[SUP]36 [/SUP] "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Once we are in Christ - we become sons/daughters of God.

Galatians 3:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.


1 John 3:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1[/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

I encourage us to start to believe in the gospel of the grace of Christ. It is "good news".

If we see ourselves as children of God we will walk as children of our Father and our true nature in our new creation will transform our minds to reflect that nature outwardly in our behavior powered by the Spirit of God inside of us.

 

[Grace777x70]

I never implied what you suggested. Also, true conversion is not the same thing as new birth.

What?....so there is something called conversion which is separate from the new birth? It's no wonder everything about the new creation in Christ is a mystery to you and it is all "gnostic" thoughts.

I'm going to believe scripture that we are born again by the Holy Spirit of God.

Jesus said you need to be born again before you can even see the kingdom of God.

John 3:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus said "don't marvel that you need to be born again"

John 3:6-7 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[SUP]4 [/SUP] to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

 

[PeterJens]

We do not war against the flesh.
Ephesians 6:[SUP]12 [/SUP]For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood

The above quote illustrates the problem with the word flesh. It is used to me our physical body, and also carnal desires and also sinful behaviour. You only know what the writer is meaning by looking at the context and how it all hangs together.

The above verse is clearly talking about we are not fighting a physical war with physical beings but spiritual issues.

So to see this used in terms of wrestling with carnal desires and issues of the heart, appears to be a miss quote.
We all know we do wrestle with our hearts and its desires, temptations for money, sex and power, so to claim this has no hold on believers is also very naive and not biblical. Time and again Paul complains of christians caught up with selfish ambition.

So such interpretations illustrates the poor biblical interpretation and poor life awareness.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is what I have found that scripture has said about "the flesh".

The term "flesh" is used 3 different ways in the NT.

1) the carnal ways of thinking and actions left over from the prior manner of living from the old man which has been crucified with Christ on the cross ( Gal. 2:20; Romans 6:6 ) - this is where renewing our minds to the new creation in Christ in our inner man comes in ( Eph. 4:24 and many others like Galatians 5:19 )

2) it is used when talking about self-effort ( Romans 4:1-6 ; Phil. 3:3-9 )

3) and sometimes it just means the "fleshly-meat - the body" itself ( many places in scripture it is used in this manner)...there is even a food called chili con carne which means with meat.

Context will determine which "flesh" is being spoken of in the scripture.

The body itself is not evil - just what is in it - namely the flesh and the law of sin which functions like a parasite in the flesh ( Romans 7: 17-22 ). Jesus had a natural body too and it was not evil.

 

[PeterJens]

Romans 4:1-4
Flesh here is ancestory of Jews from Abraham - not self effort, just a descendant
Phil 3:3
Flesh here is physical circumcision as a sign of being part of Israel

Now this is not condemnation of people because of circumcision or ancestory but rather
should have faith reconned as righteousness.

 

[PeterJens]

Born again

Jesus is probably just saying no one can have faith in Jesus unless they are born of the Spirit of God.
So rather than making this a mystical creation, this is saying just having faith in Jesus as the Son of God, who died to save you, is an indication of the Holy Spirit at work in your heart. He is raising up this work in His people to the supernatural, rather than making it a mystical experience, once done never lost.

The foundation of this salvation are the words of Christ himself. In the parable of the seed and the sower, it is the word of God that is the seed. Jesus backs this up

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
John 6:63

The word in the heart brings life to the believer. Now the mystics discount Jesus's words, the life they bring, the commands He has given, the fruit they bear in the heart of the believer.

The mystics cry is not love in the heart matters, but miracles and prophecy, words of power, creative command authority.
Yet Jesus condemned those whose foundation was on this very thing and not doing the will of God, evil doers.

But they have no fear, because they believe the people from before are all legalists, and they are the power people of the latter rain, destined to bring the church to dominate the world. But strangely Christ warned there is no future in domination only in walking in love, showing the work Jesus has done in our hearts, turning the other cheek.

So I still stand amazed at how this argument continues even though we have clearly demonstrated God is only interested in people who can walk in righteousness, purity and love. Now if they agreed with this position I would no longer be opposed and told I need something more, but rather we would talk about how we can realise the victory the cross promises in our hearts.