B
Well I wrote that much because I didn't want for anyone to say that I constructed my arguments on 'wind', but on the wors of God! 
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on a side note if you think people won't construct a argument about a statement you make that would be a mistake no matter how long it is. Since man has walked on earth that has been the case what did Adam say about Eve after they both dined on the tree.
E
I will make it easy.
Salvation can not be earned, It can only be given (by grace)
thus, Since it can ot be earned, it can never be lost. If it could be lost, then it had to be earned to begin with, and was never a grace gift. God lied. and we are all sitting her today following a God who is a liar, and does not keep his word
Salvation can not be earned, It can only be given (by grace)
thus, Since it can ot be earned, it can never be lost. If it could be lost, then it had to be earned to begin with, and was never a grace gift. God lied. and we are all sitting her today following a God who is a liar, and does not keep his word
T
In Romans we are told that by one man's( Adam) disobedience many were made sinners. Then it says by one man's ( Jesus )obedience many are made righteous. It also says in Romans that what the Last Adam ( Jesus ) did was MUCH MORE than the first Adam. There is not one single solitary thing a man can do ON HIS OWN to no longer be under Adam. Nothing. He is born that way! Only Jesus can take you out of that system. How can a person do anything to lose his place under the last Adam? HE CANNOT and to say he CAN makes the first Adam's work greater. poppycock! The Lord Jesus did a perfect work and it cannot be undone by some boneheaded thing we do or do not do once we are saved.
B
[FONT="]Philippians 2:12 :"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
What does it mean to 'work out'=[/FONT] Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something
So you have to work for it, and only at the end of your work you receive payment (salvation). We all are/were employees.
And the verses from Ephesians 2:8-9 :[TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: v en"]Because by grace you have salvation through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is given by God:[TABLE="width: 468"]
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[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]For by his act we were given existence in Christ Jesus to do those good works which God before made ready for us so that we might do them."
In this translation I read "you have salvation"now or in future. You can say both. And in verse 8 with your translation you can say " by grace you have been saved through faith" as in God already sealed this through Christ, as in a promise "you have been saved through Jesus Christ" and I will not take this away ever, if you remain with me. Maybe this is a little bit forced but what is your opinion about verses from 1 Peter 1:4-9 ? and Romans 8:23-24?
I hope I don't upset you with anything. It's just my way of finding the truth. I am waiting for your reply! With sincere and respect, Miriam.
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Anyone who says we can lose our salvation doesn't really understand what occurs when one is saved. The dead spirit we all inherited from adam is made alive and combined with the spirit of Jesus. That can never, ever be undone. We are sealed with a promise and redeemed. There are so many verses and in fact the whole gospel of Jesus given to paul to support this but sadly none are so blind as they who refuse to see.
Philippians 2:12 :"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
What does it mean to 'work out'= Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something
So you have to work for it, and only at the end of your work you receive payment (salvation). We all are/were employees.
And the verses from Ephesians 2:8-9 :[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: v en"]Because by grace you have salvation through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is given by God:[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]For by his act we were given existence in Christ Jesus to do those good works which God before made ready for us so that we might do them."
In this translation I read "you have salvation"now or in future. You can say both. And in verse 8 with your translation you can say " by grace you have been saved through faith" as in God already sealed this through Christ, as in a promise "you have been saved through Jesus Christ" and I will not take this away ever, if you remain with me. Maybe this is a little bit forced but what is your opinion about verses from 1 Peter 1:4-9 ? and Romans 8:23-24?
I hope I don't upset you with anything. It's just my way of finding the truth. I am waiting for your reply! With sincere and respect, Miriam.
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Whenever we quote Phil 2:12 we need to go further on in the next verse as it shows how this is being done.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
It is God inside of us that is working out what is already in us because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. He gives us both the "will" and the "to work" part. He gives us the capability.
We can rest in Him and trust Him to lead us in this great salvation that is ours in Christ.
B
You are saying right. That is written in Romans. But nowhere says you can do whatever you want to do. Romans 5: 20-21: "And the law came in addition, to make wrongdoing worse; but where there was much sin, there was much more grace:That, as sin had power in death, so grace might have power through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:1: "What may we say, then? are we to go on in sin so that there may be more grace?"
Of course we can fail sometimes, but by mistake not with knowledge, like premeditated, because we are humans and we have what Paul says in Romans 7 'there is a law within me that fights the law received by my mind.' this was a paraphrase
B
Hmm nicely put. But in Philippians 2:13 of course God gives you the will/desire to do something good, and in my language 'work' is defined by accomplishment, and through His power you finish that work. Yes and that is so, because you cannot without Him do anything to accomplishment, maybe you can, but not that perfect. If you just say what you said that means we don't have free will, and everything is manipulated by God. But I have seen in my life, that if I don't do my part of work God cannot force me. What I mean by 'my work' is "a work done through Him but willingly'. Like preparing for an exam. You can pray all you want, if you don't study He cannot do magic, He can but He chooses not to. Some people experienced this but only if they couldn't learn by objective reasons, and once in a lifetime. So you have to learn, to do your part of deal. What you say is rather sad. We are not puppets, God's love gave us chances to choose.
In other words He gives you the will and desire, because He puts good deeds in you, but you have to engage. And He finishes the 'deeds' but only if you do your part.
You haven't reply to my other question. Thank you for your ideas
I am waiting.
B
Hello! Thank you very much for your prayers. Well I believe that I am forgiven I have said it in my text, past, present, future sins. I am saved if I remain on the path. What meaning do you have for 1 PEter 1:4-9 and Romans 8-23-25? Of course I think I have been saved, but the actual salvation is afterlife. It's very nicely put that "spiritual sense" but salvation in my language "mantuire" as in salvation of the soul an body forever, means more than saving( in my language (salvare/rascumparare) as in saving from sins, I believe they are different concepts. Please check those verses.
A
Amin! I don't want to be wrong in saying what I said, because I know how the friends of Job ended in the eyes of God because they talked without knowing. Please let's be kind and not jump to conclusions. I am not here to force someone to believe what I believe. Well you don't want to make me find the truth "prove me wrong" but you want to discuss Scripture, that doesn't contradict itself? I want to hear your opinion. We are all christians and believers let's act that way. please
"Let's act that way, please"?
It implies that I am not acting like a Christian or believer.
Which I will accept as true because I refuse pretend and "act like a believer".
I simply a child of God talking to her siblings, no act or show.
You misunderstand my words and that is why you think there is a contradiction...I do want you to learn truth. I just know it's not in my power to reveal it to you.
I can talk about scriptures but God will convict and reveal His wisdom through His power.
I can pray with people but it is God who answers prayers.
I refuse to debate because without God's power its all just empty words.
A
[FONT="]Philippians 2:12 :"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
What does it mean to 'work out'=[/FONT] Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something
So you have to work for it, and only at the end of your work you receive payment (salvation). We all are/were employees.
And the verses from Ephesians 2:8-9 :[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: v en"]Because by grace you have salvation through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is given by God:[TABLE="width: 468"]
[TR]
[TD="class: vn"][/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]For by his act we were given existence in Christ Jesus to do those good works which God before made ready for us so that we might do them."
In this translation I read "you have salvation"now or in future. You can say both. And in verse 8 with your translation you can say " by grace you have been saved through faith" as in God already sealed this through Christ, as in a promise "you have been saved through Jesus Christ" and I will not take this away ever, if you remain with me. Maybe this is a little bit forced but what is your opinion about verses from 1 Peter 1:4-9 ? and Romans 8:23-24?
I hope I don't upset you with anything. It's just my way of finding the truth. I am waiting for your reply! With sincere and respect, Miriam.
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Of course you can lose salvation, by doing the complete opposite of what you did to gain salvation. Just have a change of heart, deny Christ as your Savior, and walk away. The OSAS crowd believe you can be a hypocrite and sin all you want, while claiming Christ saves us no matter what. But I believe that intentionally doing the opposite of everything Jesus lived and died for, while simultaneously claiming to be saved, is tantamount to mocking God/Christ. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matthew 7:23). While Jesus will never forsake a true believer, nor withhold eternal life from those who earnestly follow his example & teachings, its a misnomer to presume that a Christian can't fall from grace by forsaking Christ. King Saul and Judas Iscariot are examples of that. A Christian must keep the faith and finish the race. As long as we have free will, we have the choice of surrendering salvation, just as we had the choice of accepting it.
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[TD]Rom 8:38
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[TD]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
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Rom 8:39
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[TD]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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[TD]Rom 8:38
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[TD]For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
[/TD]
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[TD]
[/TD]
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[/TD]
[TD]Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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E
I think John said it best.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
context. People who claimed to have faith in christ, and was in the church, Who left and because against Christ, even denying him.
So when people say you can turn around and do the opposite (deny christ) to lose salvation. John would say otherwise. I would listen to the apostle.
As for "sin all you want" strawman.. Legalists water down the law. So they sin all the want, and excuse it.. As long s they do not do certain sins they are ok.. So please do not buy into the sin all you want nonsense..
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
context. People who claimed to have faith in christ, and was in the church, Who left and because against Christ, even denying him.
So when people say you can turn around and do the opposite (deny christ) to lose salvation. John would say otherwise. I would listen to the apostle.
As for "sin all you want" strawman.. Legalists water down the law. So they sin all the want, and excuse it.. As long s they do not do certain sins they are ok.. So please do not buy into the sin all you want nonsense..
Hmm nicely put. But in Philippians 2:13 of course God gives you the will/desire to do something good, and in my language 'work' is defined by accomplishment, and through His power you finish that work. Yes and that is so, because you cannot without Him do anything to accomplishment, maybe you can, but not that perfect. If you just say what you said that means we don't have free will, and everything is manipulated by God. But I have seen in my life, that if I don't do my part of work God cannot force me. What I mean by 'my work' is "a work done through Him but willingly'. Like preparing for an exam. You can pray all you want, if you don't study He cannot do magic, He can but He chooses not to. Some people experienced this but only if they couldn't learn by objective reasons, and once in a lifetime. So you have to learn, to do your part of deal. What you say is rather sad. We are not puppets, God's love gave us chances to choose.
In other words He gives you the will and desire, because He puts good deeds in you, but you have to engage. And He finishes the 'deeds' but only if you do your part.
You haven't reply to my other question. Thank you for your ideas
I am waiting.
In other words He gives you the will and desire, because He puts good deeds in you, but you have to engage. And He finishes the 'deeds' but only if you do your part.
You haven't reply to my other question. Thank you for your ideas
I am waiting.
What is the other question? I must have missed it.
John 14:27 Peace I leave you my peace I give you. Not as the world gives give I unto you. Let your hearts not be troubled neither let them be afraid.
The words Jesus said the most while He walked the earth...DONT BE AFRAID. Sadly until we come to a realization of our true identity in Christ we will always be afraid.
The words Jesus said the most while He walked the earth...DONT BE AFRAID. Sadly until we come to a realization of our true identity in Christ we will always be afraid.