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BeyondET
Guest
Didn't even bother reading it because it was so long. But to answer your question, NO we cannot lose our salvation. Once you're saved, you're saved.
i know, right.....
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i know, right.....
False doctrine. Those who have come to Christ are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. We are saved and the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are saved.Hello all. You have to read all in order to understand what I wanted to say. I didn't bring up a question. That was just a title. I already have the answer. You cannot lose your salvation because you don't have it yet. You are just born again and your whole life is a process of sanctification, and after death you will receive the salvation of you soul and body as renewal of both! Please read
We are in the process of sanctification which will only be complete when we are with our Redeemer in glory. If you are not saved today you are not saved period. God as you might know operates outside of time in that God inhabits eternity. From God's perspective He sees us as saved in Christ even though we abide here in this world. We are in the world but not of the world.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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BeyondET
Guest
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BuMiRo
Guest
I know what you say, but have you read all that I said there? In order to invalidate my ideas extracted from the Bible you have to comment on the verses I placed there. You cannot bring a verse out of the context without contrarguments to the written ideas by me! Read carefully. I just want to help. I don't want to say somebody is wrong. I just read the Bible and wrote some things.
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BuMiRo
Guest
You are totally wrong. Those who accept Jesus in THIS lifetime are saved. Once you're dead, there's no chance to accept Him. We are born again, sanctified AND saved in this earthly lifetime. The salvation of our soul happens the moment we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
What about this then?
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[TD="class: vn"] [/TD]
[TD="class: v en"]1 Peter 1:9 "For so you have the true end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."[/TD]
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Ariel82
Guest
I read it all and I disagree with your conclusions but have no desire to "prove you wrong".
God is able to convict and teach His children.
If you want to,discuss scripture and pray, I am willing.
If this is a debate to "prove" rightness, I will pass.
Let all men be wrong and God right.
God is able to convict and teach His children.
If you want to,discuss scripture and pray, I am willing.
If this is a debate to "prove" rightness, I will pass.
Let all men be wrong and God right.
So, in context you can see that Matthew 7:15-23 is talking about false prophets.
In Matt 7:23..Jesus said "I never knew you "...these people were not believers.....
Everyone when they see Jesus will call Him Lord.....Jesus is Lord whether they receive Him as such or not but when they do see Him...they will all call Him Lord!
John 10:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine
As far as doing the will of God:
Jesus did the "will of God"...and delivered us from this present evil world
Galatians 1:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
It is God in us that gives us the will and the ability to do His will.
Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
The Will of the Father is to believe on Jesus.
1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23[/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The good works we do are from "being in Christ"..being lead by the Holy Spirit. Notice God has prepared them for us. We walk them out as we life our lives dependent on Him.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
So what about it? How does your understanding of it fit with the whole of scripture?
Faith is how we wrestle with our doubts.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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BuMiRo
Guest
Well I hear you! And I understand but what about those verses I posted? How can they be interpretated? Yes we are saved because He saves us from our sins. Saving can be used in various meanings. In my language saving is "salvare" and salvation as in afterlife is "mantuire", like two different concepts. I don't want to teach a false doctrine, so hear me God. So you are saved as in 'a new being' meeting with the great Christ and His cross and all that He has done for us, and then you will receive at the final of your days 'faith' the salvation of your souls. It's black on white written in the Bible. The Bible says that christian life is a fight. When You say you are 'sealed' take some verses out of the main story you have pretext, and You expect God to o everything. You have free will...
And I say this to : for the cause of Christ, very nice said
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BuMiRo
Guest
In my Bible it's translated this way: ' So you will receive, at the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls.'
verse 5 :"Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day." WHICH WILL BE SEEN AT THE LAST DAY.
Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant. A mediator is a go-between for two parties. Just like Moses. GOD made the old covenant with Israel, not Moses, who was the mediator.
Mediator
G3316 μεσίτης mesites (mes-ee'-tace) n.
1. a go-between
Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator [Moses]. Galatians 3:19
For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5
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BuMiRo
Guest
Amin! I don't want to be wrong in saying what I said, because I know how the friends of Job ended in the eyes of God because they talked without knowing. Please let's be kind and not jump to conclusions. I am not here to force someone to believe what I believe. Well you don't want to make me find the truth "prove me wrong" but you want to discuss Scripture, that doesn't contradict itself? I want to hear your opinion. We are all christians and believers let's act that way. please
Grace reigns or rules in righteousness and we are saved by grace through faith when we received Christ. We have Christ's righteousness now because we are in Him and thus we have His grace as well.
Romans 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Have been saved - is in the perfect tense and passive voice
Perfect tense means that it was an event that happened in the past and it's full effect is ongoing in the present continuously happening - (In other words it's a sealed and done deal)
Passive = means that something happened to you - you did not do it
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BuMiRo
Guest
i know, right.....
Well I wrote that much because I didn't want for anyone to say that I constructed my arguments on 'wind', but on the wors of God!
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BeyondET
Guest
In my Bible it's translated this way: ' So you will receive, at the end of your faith, the salvation of your souls.'
verse 5 :"Who, by the power of God are kept, through faith, for that salvation, which will be seen at the last day." WHICH WILL BE SEEN AT THE LAST DAY.
Thats pretty much common sense, the living can receive salvation through Jesus and is continued in the after life by means of citizenship in Heaven.
Yes...of course Jesus as "the man" is our mediator...that's the whole point....and who died in our place?..who stands before God for us? Jesus does but the covenant itself is between the Father and "the Son"....and thus He is both the mediator ( Man - Christ Jesus ) and the other party ( Son of God ) at the same time.
The Bible calls Jesus a mediator, a go-between. A mediator’s purpose is to get two parties to relate positively to each other. His work is what causes the barriers to come down and the relationship to bear positive fruit. Jesus was the greatest diplomat, the brilliant negotiator of the greatest covenant, or agreement, in human history.
Jesus could do that because he was both God and human. He was not only able to represent both parties, he was able to be both parties. As God, he did what only God could do: forgive us. As a human, he did what humanity was supposed to do: respond perfectly. Just as his death counts for all humanity, so does his perfect response.
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BeyondET
Guest
Well I wrote that much because I didn't want for anyone to say that I constructed my arguments on 'wind', but on the wors of God!
I agree though keeping it kind of short and sweet and building upon that foundation of milk to solid food is a good way to prosper more fruit. not saying it needs to be just a few words but many upon many upon even more upon more can be drawn out and the attention you wish to obtain from others can be lost quickly.
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Tessy
Guest
And THIS is why it is IMPERATIVE you know who Jesus is talking to! Rightly divide the word of truth. Understanding the different dispensations!! This statement is NOT said to you and I under grace. This is when Jesus comes back to rule and reign on earth after the dispensation of Grace is over with. The bride of Christ ( all under the grace covenant) will have already been before the Lord Jesus at the Judgement seat of Christ... and on a side note.... The Lord Jesus responds to these people who claim to have done works in his name like this: Mathew 7:23 and then I will profess unto them, I NEVER knew you, depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Get that? He NEVER knew these people, they were never part of his church, they never had a relationship with him...it doesn't say I Knew you once but you had to live your own way so I dropped ya. just sayin
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Tessy
Guest
HUH? yeah it is! Jesus took all of our sins on the cross and we are imputed with all of his righteousness after we believe, you can't be imputed with his righteousness and not be saved.