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The Holy Spirit convicts of sin
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I am not catholic, and also, I give most everything you post no credit , so we are even there!!!!
A
Ariel82
Guest
Totally agree, no condemnation...but it illustrates the shell,game that throws red flags for me....
The topic is convict not condemn, yet the article says God does not convict and lists all the people who may condemn the person...lies mixed with truth....
God does convict but never condemns unlike the rest of the world, including ourselves.
Who's he gonna preach to, but SOMEONE... (that would be, "them") What on Earth do you think that whole passage is talking about? It's the Holy spirit interacting with PEOPLE.......... not simply just "existing."
This article might help some people out on this subject.
Conviction vs Correction
What I say: “God never convicts us of our sins.”
What they hear: “God is oblivious to our sins. He never corrects us nor rebukes us.”
What they think: Hebrews 12 says otherwise so Paul is in error.
This issue of conviction of sins is fast becoming an unnecessary shibboleth among Christians. Sincere believers are dividing themselves along one of two lines:
1. “God never convicts us and if you think he does you are sin-conscious and need to become Christ-conscious.”
2. “God convicts me in a positive way as a loving father and if you say otherwise you need to read your Bible.”
This is a most unfortunate and unnecessary division! It is the result of two truths hammering the same nail – namely, how does God deal with our present sins and shortcomings? Does he convict us? Does he correct us? Is there a difference?
My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; (Heb 12:5 NKJV)
God both chastens and rebukes us but in this post I want to focus on the word rebuke. (Chastening simply means training.)
God trains us as a Father; he does not chastise us with punishment, sickness and definitely not scourging (see v.6). God trains us primarily through scripture and the revelation of his Holy Spirit (2 Tim 3:16-17, John 16:13).)
The word for “rebuke” in Hebrews 12:5, elegchō, is the same word which is translated “convict” in John 16:8.
And (the Helper), when he comes, will convict (elegchō) the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. (John 16:8-11, NASB)
It is also closely related to word Jude uses when he quotes Enoch:
See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict (exelegchō) all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jud 1:14-15)
Put it altogether and you have a recipe for confusion: The ungodly are convicted and the sons of God are convicted! But the confusion may be all in our English-reading heads.
Lost in translation
Consider the meaning of the English word “convict”:
Verb: Declare someone to be guilty of a criminal offense by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law.
Noun: A person found guilty of a criminal offense and serving a sentence of imprisonment.
Does the Holy Spirit ever declare the righteous guilty? Of course not. If he did, it would be like saying Christ’s redemptive work was an insufficient remedy for your sin. Since you have been justified by his grace (Rom 3:24), you cannot be convicted for your sin. Not now, not ever.
“But Paul, I’ve got some serious sin.” That may be, but he has some serious grace and his grace is greater than your sin (Rom 5:20).
When I talk like that, I am accused of diminishing sin. I am not. Sin is destructive. It has consequences. I am not diminishing sin. I am emphasizing the only thing that can deliver you from the power of sin: his grace.
What’s wrong with a little conviction?
The word convict has become so churchified that we sound like fools when we talk to outsiders.
I used to do prison ministry. If I told the inmates that the Holy Spirit had convicted me of sin they would think, “He busted you! You were caught red-handed you bad, bad sinner.”
What a slanderous portrayal of the Holy Spirit’s life-giving ministry. I have made out that he is like the Law or worse, the Accuser. The Holy Spirit is nothing like that!
But it certainly doesn’t help when we have translations like the NIV adding words to scripture:
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin… (NIV)
The word guilt is not in the original Greek. (Check it out in a literal translation.) It was added in the 1970s by translators working for the International Bible Society. Their other Bible, the 20-year old NIrV, is even worse:
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will prove that the world’s people are guilty. (NIrV)
Sheesh. It makes you wonder why God wasted 14 centuries with the law-keeping covenant. If his plan was to condemn us with the Holy Spirit, what purpose does the law serve?
I hope you can see that “convict” and “guilt” are terrible words to associate with the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit and guilt go together like the devil and love.
He’s the Spirit of grace, not the spirit of guilt (Heb 10:29).
As long as you’re rewriting the Bible, why not go the whole way and call Jesus the Condemner of the world?
What a dis-grace.
Conviction vs. correction
I hope you can see the Holy Spirit never, ever convicts (assigns guilt) you of your sin. In fact, he has gone on record saying, “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more” (Heb 10:17).
How can he declare you guilty of sins he chooses not to remembers?
“But Paul, you are speaking of conviction in a negative sense. There is also such a thing as positive conviction and I have experienced it.”
No, you are confused about the meaning of words. There is no such thing as positive guilt or positive condemnation. That old line about the devil condemning and the Holy Spirit convicting is a big fat lie. Say it often enough and people will believe it but it’s not found anywhere in the Bible.
What you have actually experienced is a life-giving correction.
https://escapetoreality.org/2013/02/28/conviction-vs-correction/
Conviction vs Correction
What I say: “God never convicts us of our sins.”
What they hear: “God is oblivious to our sins. He never corrects us nor rebukes us.”
What they think: Hebrews 12 says otherwise so Paul is in error.
This issue of conviction of sins is fast becoming an unnecessary shibboleth among Christians. Sincere believers are dividing themselves along one of two lines:
1. “God never convicts us and if you think he does you are sin-conscious and need to become Christ-conscious.”
2. “God convicts me in a positive way as a loving father and if you say otherwise you need to read your Bible.”
This is a most unfortunate and unnecessary division! It is the result of two truths hammering the same nail – namely, how does God deal with our present sins and shortcomings? Does he convict us? Does he correct us? Is there a difference?
My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; (Heb 12:5 NKJV)
God both chastens and rebukes us but in this post I want to focus on the word rebuke. (Chastening simply means training.)
God trains us as a Father; he does not chastise us with punishment, sickness and definitely not scourging (see v.6). God trains us primarily through scripture and the revelation of his Holy Spirit (2 Tim 3:16-17, John 16:13).)
The word for “rebuke” in Hebrews 12:5, elegchō, is the same word which is translated “convict” in John 16:8.
And (the Helper), when he comes, will convict (elegchō) the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. (John 16:8-11, NASB)
It is also closely related to word Jude uses when he quotes Enoch:
See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict (exelegchō) all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jud 1:14-15)
Put it altogether and you have a recipe for confusion: The ungodly are convicted and the sons of God are convicted! But the confusion may be all in our English-reading heads.
Lost in translation
Consider the meaning of the English word “convict”:
Verb: Declare someone to be guilty of a criminal offense by the verdict of a jury or the decision of a judge in a court of law.
Noun: A person found guilty of a criminal offense and serving a sentence of imprisonment.
Does the Holy Spirit ever declare the righteous guilty? Of course not. If he did, it would be like saying Christ’s redemptive work was an insufficient remedy for your sin. Since you have been justified by his grace (Rom 3:24), you cannot be convicted for your sin. Not now, not ever.
“But Paul, I’ve got some serious sin.” That may be, but he has some serious grace and his grace is greater than your sin (Rom 5:20).
When I talk like that, I am accused of diminishing sin. I am not. Sin is destructive. It has consequences. I am not diminishing sin. I am emphasizing the only thing that can deliver you from the power of sin: his grace.
What’s wrong with a little conviction?
The word convict has become so churchified that we sound like fools when we talk to outsiders.
I used to do prison ministry. If I told the inmates that the Holy Spirit had convicted me of sin they would think, “He busted you! You were caught red-handed you bad, bad sinner.”
What a slanderous portrayal of the Holy Spirit’s life-giving ministry. I have made out that he is like the Law or worse, the Accuser. The Holy Spirit is nothing like that!
But it certainly doesn’t help when we have translations like the NIV adding words to scripture:
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin… (NIV)
The word guilt is not in the original Greek. (Check it out in a literal translation.) It was added in the 1970s by translators working for the International Bible Society. Their other Bible, the 20-year old NIrV, is even worse:
Joh 16:8 When he comes, he will prove that the world’s people are guilty. (NIrV)
Sheesh. It makes you wonder why God wasted 14 centuries with the law-keeping covenant. If his plan was to condemn us with the Holy Spirit, what purpose does the law serve?
I hope you can see that “convict” and “guilt” are terrible words to associate with the Holy Spirit! The Holy Spirit and guilt go together like the devil and love.
He’s the Spirit of grace, not the spirit of guilt (Heb 10:29).
As long as you’re rewriting the Bible, why not go the whole way and call Jesus the Condemner of the world?
What a dis-grace.
Conviction vs. correction
I hope you can see the Holy Spirit never, ever convicts (assigns guilt) you of your sin. In fact, he has gone on record saying, “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more” (Heb 10:17).
How can he declare you guilty of sins he chooses not to remembers?
“But Paul, you are speaking of conviction in a negative sense. There is also such a thing as positive conviction and I have experienced it.”
No, you are confused about the meaning of words. There is no such thing as positive guilt or positive condemnation. That old line about the devil condemning and the Holy Spirit convicting is a big fat lie. Say it often enough and people will believe it but it’s not found anywhere in the Bible.
What you have actually experienced is a life-giving correction.
https://escapetoreality.org/2013/02/28/conviction-vs-correction/
Why do you have to continually do this proselytizing with copy/pastes from that website? Why don't you communicate from what's inside you?
no, I never was. I am not hyper-grace either. I just believe that we are not saved or maintained by works.
A
Ariel82
Guest
A
Ariel82
Guest
Yes it would be...if only I had more time, but here is a fast search...
Strong's Concordance
elegchó: to expose, convict, reprove
Original Word: ἐλέγχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Short Definition: I rebuke, expose
Definition: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.
HELPS Word-studies
1651 elégxō – properly, to convince with solid, compelling evidence, especially to expose (prove wrong, connect).
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. verb
Definition
to expose, convict, reprove
NASB Translation
convict (2), convicted (2), convicts (1), expose (1), exposed (2), rebuke (1), refute (1), reprimanded (1), reprove (4), reproved (1), show...fault (1).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 1651: ἐλέγχω
ἐλέγχω; future ἐλέγξω; 1 aorist infinitive ἐλέγξαι, imperative ἔλεγξον; (passive, present ἐλέγχομαι; 1 aorist ἐλεγχθην); the Sept. for הוכִיחַ;
1. to convict, refute, confute, generally with a suggestion of the shame of the person convicted ("ἐλέγχεινhateigentlichnichtdieBedeutung 'tadeln,schmähen,zurechtweisen,'welcheihmdieLexikazuschreiben,sondernbedeutetnichtsalsüberführen (Schmidt, chapter 4: § 12)): τινα, of crime, fault, or error; of sin, 1 Corinthians 14:24; ἐλεγχόμενοι ὑπό τοῦ νόμου ὡς παραβάται, James 2:9; ὑπό τῆς συνειδήσεως, John 8:9 R G (Philo, Works, ii., p. 649 (ed. Mang., vi. 203, Richter edition, fragment περί ἀναστάσεως καί κρίσεως) τό συνειδός ἔλεγχος ἀδέκαστος καί πάντων ἀψευδεστατος); followed by περί with the genitive of thing, John 8:46; John 16:8, and L T Tr WH in Jude 1:15 (Aristophanes, Plutarch, 574); contextually, by conviction to bring to light, to expose: τί, John 3:20, cf. 21; Ephesians 5:11, 13 (Aristophanes ecclesiastical 485; τά κρυπτά, Artemidorus Daldianus, oneir. 1, 68; ἐπιστάμενος, ὡς εἰ καί λαθοι ἡ ἐπιβουλή καί μή ἐλεγχθειη, Herodian, 3, 12, 11 (4th edition, Bekker); others); used of the exposure and confutation of false teachers of Christianity, Titus 1:9, 13; ταῦτα ἔλεγχε, utter these things by way of refutation, Titus 2:15.
2. to find fault with, correct;
a. by word; to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove: Jude 1:22 L T Tr text; 1 Timothy 5:20; 2 Timothy 4:2; τινα περί τίνος, Luke 3:19; contextually, to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation: τινα, from someone, Matthew 18:15.
b. by deed; to chasten, punish (according to the translation of the Hebrew הוכִיחַ, Psalm 37:2 (), etc.; Wis. 12:2): Hebrews 12:5 (from Proverbs 3:11); Revelation 3:19. (On this word cf. J. C. Hare, The Mission of the Comforter, note L; Trench, § iv. Compare: ἐξελέγχω, διακατελεγχὡ(μαἰ.)
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
convict, convince, rebuke, reprove.
Of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish -- convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
A
Ariel82
Guest
Why don't we do it here. I've got an epic library of lexicons.
Synonyms of the New Testament, 9th ed.
... ἐλέγχειν is a much more pregnant word; it is so to rebuke another, with such effectual wielding of the victorious arms of the truth, as to bring him, if not always to a confession, yet at least to a conviction, of his sin (Job 5:17; Prov. 19:25), just as in juristic Greek, ἐλέγχειν is not merely to reply to, but to refute, an opponent.
... ἔλεγχος implies not merely the charge, but the truth of the charge, and further the manifestation of the truth of the charge; nay more than all this, very often also the acknowledgment, if not outward, yet inward, of its truth on the part of the accused; it being the glorious prerogative of the truth in its highest operation not merely to assert itself, and to silence the adversary, but to silence him by convincing him of his error.
The holy spirit convicts the world of sin
Jesus through the holy spirit convicts believers of their sin
Reprove and rebuke in the verses above are the same word. Sometimes it's translated convict, convince...
Reprove/Rebuke
G1651 ἐλέγχω elegcho (el-eng'-kho) v.
1. to confute, admonish
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8
Jesus through the holy spirit convicts believers of their sin
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Revelation 3:19
Reprove and rebuke in the verses above are the same word. Sometimes it's translated convict, convince...
Reprove/Rebuke
G1651 ἐλέγχω elegcho (el-eng'-kho) v.
1. to confute, admonish
It is possible to often end bickering over a word if you listen to how someone defines the word, in their own words.
If I wear a pretty dress and you tell me I look very gay today, bickering can be averted if I listen to how you define the word gay.
Not all of us study the gree,k but get our understanding from the Spirit. He helps us understand the concept but doesn't exactly define words...
If I say the Holy Spirit shows me when I am sinning inside and being dishonest about it, and I say this is Him convincing me of my sin (my refusal to walk in the truth), or I say this is Him convicting me, shouldn't it be plain what my intent and understanding are in what I say?
It gets tiring to be bickering over one word.
If I wear a pretty dress and you tell me I look very gay today, bickering can be averted if I listen to how you define the word gay.
Not all of us study the gree,k but get our understanding from the Spirit. He helps us understand the concept but doesn't exactly define words...
If I say the Holy Spirit shows me when I am sinning inside and being dishonest about it, and I say this is Him convincing me of my sin (my refusal to walk in the truth), or I say this is Him convicting me, shouldn't it be plain what my intent and understanding are in what I say?
It gets tiring to be bickering over one word.
Your wish is my command.
Matt 18:15 …thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him …
…shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he …
Luke 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip’s …
John 3:20 …neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved .
John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one …
John 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say …
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of …
1 Cor 14:24 …in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: …
Eph 5:11 …with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: …
1 Tim 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear. …
2 Tim 4:2 …word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. …
Titus 1:9 …able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound …
Titus 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise …
Heb 12:5 …thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
James 2:9 …ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. …
Anyway - there is tons of information concerning the role of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life verses the unbeliever and for those that will really read what has been posted - I believe it will change your life and you will fall deeper in love with the Lord as we see His complete wondrous salvation.
These articles and comments from various people will answer the remarks made by the OP.
I really encourage people to study into the righteousness that God gives to us believers that are in Christ. It will absolutely change your life and we will grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus.
Here is a video series about righteousness and the Holy Spirit revealing the "things" of Jesus to us. This teacher has a whole series that you can watch on youtube if you are interested. Here is the first one.
The understanding of us being the righteousness of God in Christ now because of what Jesus did will bless you beyond believe and when Jesus said "Come unto Me and you will find rest". - this truth will finally be real to us.
[video=youtube;t_xs2RwU9MU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xs2RwU9MU[/video]
These articles and comments from various people will answer the remarks made by the OP.
I really encourage people to study into the righteousness that God gives to us believers that are in Christ. It will absolutely change your life and we will grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus.
Here is a video series about righteousness and the Holy Spirit revealing the "things" of Jesus to us. This teacher has a whole series that you can watch on youtube if you are interested. Here is the first one.
The understanding of us being the righteousness of God in Christ now because of what Jesus did will bless you beyond believe and when Jesus said "Come unto Me and you will find rest". - this truth will finally be real to us.
[video=youtube;t_xs2RwU9MU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_xs2RwU9MU[/video]
But it's not talking about their righteousness. The holy spirit convinces of Christ's righteousness (because I go to the father and you see me no more).