Who are the friends or enemies of the Living God?

[PeterJens]

Turin shroud? Don't get the reference.

The turin shroud could be the actual image of christs transformed body.
It is such a crazy notion, but it fits 100% his injuries and humanity.
We find it so hard to see Jesus in our world so we can touch Him because that
is so intimate. We often think of Jesus as very much other and concerned with
bigger things but Jesus even is concerned about cooking and cleaning.

This is why I do not dismiss what is before me, or where I am, because the Lord
is everywhere and His love expressed in all aspects of His creation.

 

[PeterJens]

Not true. Grace + works is a false dichotomy. I promote faith + works = obedience. It's a good formula because only the obedient are saved.

Faith if real will produce a changed heart which through obedience leads to transformation.
To divide this formula destroys meaning.
If you have faith, you will obey, but you may not continue or overcome.
Though we do not earn salvation, its goal is transformation. If we do not transform we are
not people of faith. It is like how can a loving parent not feed and protect their children.
No feeding and protection then they are not loving.
But which comes first, the love or the action? They are the same thing.

 

[Billyd]

Actually that's not true....some disobedient folks are saved too, just really immature.


Salvation is by grace..., we don't earn it or deserve it.

God gives us a measure of faith so we can confess that Jesus died for our sins, rose again and ascended into heaven.

We are to die to ourselves and sin, become born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit...and will be ressurected in New bodies upon Jesus return.

However that is not the end...faith is given to us so that we might grow mature in Christ and walk with His holy Spirit displaying the fruit of love, joy, peace, gentleness, patience and self control.

We add to our faith, virtue, wisdom, self control, perservance, brotherly kindness and love...

Works can not save us, but it can help us do what God wants for us to do in this life.


There are some who only have faith and even that not very strong faith that God really does love them...they lack knowledge and self control but God still loves them and calls them His.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It is not the faith that he gave or gives us. By God's grace, we are saved through our faith in him. It is not grace that God gives us. It is salvation.

 

[John146]

Faith if real will produce a changed heart which through obedience leads to transformation.
To divide this formula destroys meaning.
If you have faith, you will obey, but you may not continue or overcome.
Though we do not earn salvation, its goal is transformation. If we do not transform we are
not people of faith. It is like how can a loving parent not feed and protect their children.
No feeding and protection then they are not loving.
But which comes first, the love or the action? They are the same thing.

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Until my flesh matches my redeemed inner man, I will not be able to be completely obedient. My inner man is "in Christ" not my flesh. All things about my inner man has become new, not my flesh. The battle with the flesh will remain until death or the rapture, which ever one comes first.

 

[Ariel82]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It is not the faith that he gave or gives us. By God's grace, we are saved through our faith in him. It is not grace that God gives us. It is salvation.

*For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


******I was thinking of the above verse but like the rest too.**********


*For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, *so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. *Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; *or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; *he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.*Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. *Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; *not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; *rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; *distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.*Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. *Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. *Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.*Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. *If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. - Romans 12:3-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:3-18&version=NKJV

 

[Billyd]

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Until my flesh matches my redeemed inner man, I will not be able to be completely obedient. My inner man is "in Christ" not my flesh. All things about my inner man has become new, not my flesh. The battle with the flesh will remain until death or the rapture, which ever one comes first.

I agree that we are not able to be completely obedient, but as we grow in Christ our obedience to him also grows, and the battle with the flesh becomes less significant.

 

[PeterJens]

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Until my flesh matches my redeemed inner man, I will not be able to be completely obedient. My inner man is "in Christ" not my flesh. All things about my inner man has become new, not my flesh. The battle with the flesh will remain until death or the rapture, which ever one comes first.

This is an interesting language. Flesh can mean the carnal nature or our physical bodies. Some take it to mean anything that relates to self.

The idea the flesh is not redeemed or washed is an area of debate. Some groups have taken the body as being unholy and the cause of original sin. The more extreme view is to say sexual desire is original sin. So marriage is by this view sinful.
I take the view the body is neutral as Jesus says it is from the heart that we are polluted not from what we eat or what we put into bodies. It strikes me the emphasis is on choice of the heart, what we dwell on, how we handle what is given to us.

Being saved we are washed clean, purified, set as righteous. We then have a choice to continue or fall back into our old ways. I work from Jesus died to set us free from sin, here and now, not to stay bounded or in bondage. If this is not so, how can be trust what we have is real or true?

There are those who resolve the issue by saying it is not us who are deemed righteous but Jesus.
Sanctification in my view is the process of working through the issues from our lives that lead to sin and temptation. It takes both obedience and learning, putting into practice Gods gifts to us. Only when you start to forgive do you begin to understand what it is to be forgiven. The spiritual connections grow as we walk and change.

For some reason people call this idea a lie, and actually we are always sinning to the day we die. An example provided is if we think for a moment on ourselves, that is breaking the first commandment. In this world what matters is to ignore failure and accept success of Christ. It presupposes there is nothing to resolve in our lives because we are forever sinners.

I am told continually this is a lie, yet this is what I am told is real morality. It sounds to me like a copout.
If in christ all things are new, then sin has been left behind.

 

[John146]

I agree that we are not able to be completely obedient, but as we grow in Christ our obedience to him also grows, and the battle with the flesh becomes less significant.

Agree, but unfortunately there are some who remain babes in Christ and never show much growth.

 

[Billyd]

*For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


******I was thinking of the above verse but like the rest too.**********


*For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, *so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. *Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; *or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; *he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.*Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good. *Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; *not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord; *rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer; *distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality.*Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. *Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep. *Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.*Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. *If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. - Romans 12:3-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:3-18&version=NKJV

Amen, sister. What a blessing we receive, when we put the gifts that God has so gracefully gives us to work for him.

I like verse 18 (ESV) If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

 

[Billyd]

Agree, but unfortunately there are some who remain babes in Christ and never show much growth.

Herein lies the problem. Until we swallow the milk, and feast on the meat of the scriptures, we will continue to be friends and enemies (mostly enemies) of God. Swallow the milk now, and become adult sons and daughters of God.

 

[Ariel82]

This is an interesting language. Flesh can mean the carnal nature or our physical bodies. Some take it to mean anything that relates to self.

The idea the flesh is not redeemed or washed is an area of debate. Some groups have taken the body as being unholy and the cause of original sin. The more extreme view is to say sexual desire is original sin. So marriage is by this view sinful.
I take the view the body is neutral as Jesus says it is from the heart that we are polluted not from what we eat or what we put into bodies. It strikes me the emphasis is on choice of the heart, what we dwell on, how we handle what is given to us.

Being saved we are washed clean, purified, set as righteous. We then have a choice to continue or fall back into our old ways. I work from Jesus died to set us free from sin, here and now, not to stay bounded or in bondage. If this is not so, how can be trust what we have is real or true?

There are those who resolve the issue by saying it is not us who are deemed righteous but Jesus.
Sanctification in my view is the process of working through the issues from our lives that lead to sin and temptation. It takes both obedience and learning, putting into practice Gods gifts to us. Only when you start to forgive do you begin to understand what it is to be forgiven. The spiritual connections grow as we walk and change.

For some reason people call this idea a lie, and actually we are always sinning to the day we die. An example provided is if we think for a moment on ourselves, that is breaking the first commandment. In this world what matters is to ignore failure and accept success of Christ. It presupposes there is nothing to resolve in our lives because we are forever sinners.

I am told continually this is a lie, yet this is what I am told is real morality. It sounds to me like a copout.
If in christ all things are new, then sin has been left behind.

I think I see what you are trying to convey.

Gnostics do believe that the body is totally evil and since the flesh is totally evil, then Jesus was not born in the flesh.

Some also speak against marriage which is why the Shakers died out.

Neither is founded in scripture.

Our bodies are to be holy temples,cleansed and purified to God's service.

Yet we suffer disease, illness and many other things for these bodies will,die and we will be given new bodies upon ressurection.

 

[ladylynn]

Deception. When you first meet someone, do you assume things about them or leave it as an empty sheet you fill in?

It has struck me many here because of their conspiracy ideas about who is evil and who is good, think unless you have the right boxes ticked you are evil. This language is shown in ideas like

"Only christians can do things acceptable to God"
"Everyone can be possessed by evil spirits even with the Holy Spirit present in them"
"Religion has brain washed the world into rules following"
"Satan has control of many christian congregations"
"The church is a people called to rule the world with wealth and power"
"Our teachers are Gods mouth piece and never fall away"
"Any criticism is evil of satan in a christians life"

All these statements are wrong in some fundamental ways.
The fruit of these teachings are sin, destructive behaviour and letting evil prosper.
None of them are founded on scripture or truth, but on paranoia and superstition.

Our whole culture is founded on the salt and light of love working in the individual to transform them into a functioning loving individual who puts the needs of others alongside or above their own. This is the life blood of any community, and without which we as a society will cease to function. It is also the heartbeat of our faith and life in Christ, yet these very fundamentals are being denied and destroyed by some who claim they have the revelation of Christ and wish to condemn and destroy those who are faithful to the Lord.

In a way, so has the battle been from the beginning of time. But we are called as men and women of God to shine the light and call His people to take heart and carry on in the Kingdom, knowing the enemy can never overcome that which God is part of, but as faithful friends life is given through encouragement.

​Words fail me at this time..

 

[Grace777x70]

Believers in Christ are not enemies of God.

Romans 5:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Colossians 1:21-22 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,

[SUP]22 [/SUP] yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—

Phil 3:18 talks about those that now walk as enemies of the cross but in context Paul is talking about the Jewish people that were trying to get believers back into doing works of the law - self-effort.

Philippians 3:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision;

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

 

[Grace777x70]

I think I see what you are trying to convey.

Gnostics do believe that the body is totally evil and since the flesh is totally evil, then Jesus was not born in the flesh.

Some also speak against marriage which is why the Shakers died out.

Neither is founded in scripture.

Our bodies are to be holy temples,cleansed and purified to God's service.

Yet we suffer disease, illness and many other things for these bodies will,die and we will be given new bodies upon ressurection.

Early gnostic thought and who we are in Christ in our inner man in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness are miles apart in reality. They look similar to the natural mind because the natural mind cannot understand the new creation in Christ.

The new creation has been circumcised from the flesh which is when the Holy Spirit sealed us in Christ in our inner man.

Colossians called it the circumcision of Christ and the heart. Our spirit where the Holy Spirit dwells is cut away from the body of flesh.

Colossians 2:10-13 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

[SUP]12 [/SUP] having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP] When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Um, no, HRFTD, that's not the case.

EG did not say that doing the will of God is impossible, but that being PERFECT AS God is PERFECT is impossible.

Big difference.

And if you believe that it is possible to be perfect **though what you do or do not do** as God is perfect, then you have swallowed the same lie that the Serpent told Eve in the Garden: "And you shall be like God . . . "

The Serpent pointed her to the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil to achieve that goal.

The Gospel points us to the Tree of Life, Christ, for our perfection, and in Christ, we are perfect, based on Who He is and on His Work. Read Hebrews 10.

In Matthew 5, Christ was preaching the Law to those under the Law, before the Cross, and raising the bar to an unattainable height. He did so in order to point them to the Cross, so that when His Work was done there they would recognize it and receive HIM.

Think about it.

-JGIG

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to JGIG again.

 

[PeterJens]

I think I see what you are trying to convey.

Gnostics do believe that the body is totally evil and since the flesh is totally evil, then Jesus was not born in the flesh.

Some also speak against marriage which is why the Shakers died out.

Neither is founded in scripture.

Our bodies are to be holy temples,cleansed and purified to God's service.

Yet we suffer disease, illness and many other things for these bodies will,die and we will be given new bodies upon ressurection.

After spending years talking to muslims, the core point is love through Christ works. It changes people and brings heaven to earth. Jesus talks about love being the sign of the presence of the Holy Spirit and His gospel.

I have lived in christian communities so I know how hard this is. I have changed my views on what being in the world and not of it, and how this works. If Jesus means nothing at a life social level, what is the gospel.

Put simply Jesus set us free to walk as children of the light. It is such a gift, yet so elusive to so many.

 

[Ariel82]

I think the problem is many people don't understand God's selfless love for us...

The world's love is selfish and self serving, but God's love is so much more.

God loves enough to,chastens His children.

He loves us enough to comfort us when we weep...to give the cloak off our backs...to go the extra mile...to bless those who curse us....to feed the hungry...to comfort the grieving...to rejoice with the joyful...to visit widows and orphans...to pray with those weak in faith.

 

[Ariel82]

People don't understand that kind of love...it doesn't make sense to worldly people. However for God's children it is as natural as the blood flowing in our veins.

To the world the Gospel is foolishness and a stumbling block but to us who are saved it is the sweet fragrance of Life.

 

[Ariel82]

*For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. *For it is written:“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”*Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? *For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. *For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; *but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, *but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. *Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians1:18-25&version=NIV

 

[PeterJens]

JGIG quote "Be perfect as you heavenly Father is perfect"

Jesus was talking about loving your enemy, not an impossible goal.

If you want to extend Jesus's words about perfect, you also have to say following Jesus is being perfect.

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matt 19:21

Following Jesus is being perfect. But because this does not fit the theology of failure people reject it.
The law was given as both a guide and a measure of success. Jesus commanded us to uphold it and go further, to love each other as he loved us.

Now believers who can barely love themselves let alone their friends and family, find this last thing beyond their reach.
It is no wonder they give up hope and look for alternatives. But Jesus intended us to realise the power of love working in us and to walk with this love flowing through our lives. This is the power of salvation. I remember asking someone about deep down rejoicing I am loved and known, he looked at me as if I was an alien. To those who know so little love and so much betrayal, it is hard to grasp what God is saying. But He is saying you can by His Spirit be different. The cross is the power to eternity.