God LIED!

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Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#101
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#101
Budman said:
Good post, and so very true.

It has always amazed me, from my time being here, how those who hammer people so hard by telling them they cannot have any sin in their lives or they will lose their salvation, or were probably never saved to begin with, never acknowledge the fact that they themselves still sin - every single day.

They know it. They simply won't admit it. They are the living embodiment of the Pharisees.

And when confronted with that fact, they either scurry away or double down and ignore the fact they are colossal hypocrites.

Being willfully blind is a terrible thing.
Click to expand...
Amen...whatsoever is not of faith is sin James said. But thank God the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin in our daily walk in the Lord. His blood speaks of better things and built upon better promises. Jesus' one time sacrifice is enough and more than sufficient - He has sat down on the right hand of the Father.

The more we get this truth cemented into our minds - the more we will manifest outwardly His life in and through us.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#102
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#102
Budman said:
Okay, now that I have your attention....

One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.

I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in any way, then that makes God a liar.

Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall never perish, and that no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will perish, and we will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that we have been sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then there is no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus will never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus has left and forsaken us.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says Jesus always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we are sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

If we can lose our salvation, then we are not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that He will lose none of us, but will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)

If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus will, in fact, lose some of us, and will not raise us up on the last day.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that believers will never come into judgment, and have passed from death into life. (John 5:24)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will go back under judgment, and pass from life back into death.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our calling is irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)

If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed revocable.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says salvation is a gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is not a gift, but a wage to be earned.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings) can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)

If we can lose our salvation, then something can indeed separate us from the love of God.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)

If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work will not be completed.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says we have been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are not perfected for all time.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says our inheritance is imperishable, can never spoil, and is unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)

If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance will perish, will spoil, and will fade.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will indeed be thirsty again.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says God will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.

Verdict: God LIED.

The Bible says that our debt to God has been canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)

If we can lose our salvation, our debt has not truly been canceled.

Verdict: God LIED.

Jesus said that those who are His will never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)

If we can lose our salvation, then we will again hunger and thirst.

Verdict: God LIED.



So, what is your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
Click to expand...

[1]No one can snatch us out of God's hand, But we can walk away.
[2]We can unseal ourselves.
[3]Jesus will never leave us, But we can leave Him.
[4]The gift of salvation can be rejected.
[5]God can complete the work that He has begun in us, If we let Him.
[6]You know very well that a lot of Christians aren't perfected .

God didn't lie, You just half quoted the Bible, and looked at it from God's point, Because on God's part, He will never take salvation away from us, But on our part, we can walk away from salvation. See Heb 6: 4--6. Heb 10: 26--31.
Also remember the five foolish virgins. Matt 25: 1--13.
Are you a Calvinist or one of those false grace teachers, [The grace revaluation teachers].
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#103
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#103
God4me said:
[1]No one can snatch us out of God's hand, But we can walk away.
[2]We can unseal ourselves.
[3]Jesus will never leave us, But we can leave Him.
[4]The gift of salvation can be rejected.
[5]God can complete the work that He has begun in us, If we let Him.
[6]You know very well that a lot of Christians aren't perfected .

God didn't lie, You just half quoted the Bible, and looked at it from God's point, Because on God's part, He will never take salvation away from us, But on our part, we can walk away from salvation. See Heb 6: 4--6. Heb 10: 26--31.
Also remember the five foolish virgins. Matt 25: 1--13.
Are you a Calvinist or one of those false grace teachers, [The grace revaluation teachers].
Click to expand...
I didn't "half-quote" anything. Everything quoted are specific promises of God.

And by saying "false-grace teachers" I already see what you are. Yet another work-for-salvation task masters.

Salvation is a gift. It has always been a gift. It will always be a gift.

No matter how much you hate the idea.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#104
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#104
jb1616 said:
Hmm...... well i'm curious what you do with all those scriptures that contain phrases like,'endure to the end', 'remaining steadfast' and other similar phrases? Also, have you given any thought to the possibility of 'everlasting', 'eternal' may actually not begin for us until we die. Once we are dead it's set in stone, there are no more chances and everything from that point is everlasting and eternal one way or the other. just a thought.
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They only give us part of the Bible, they don't give us scriptures like "Enduring to the end to be saved", Or Heb 6: 4-6.
Heb 10: 26--31.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#105
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#105
Budman said:
I didn't "half-quote" anything. Everything quoted are specific promises of God.

And by saying "false-grace teachers" I already see what you are. Yet another work-for-salvation task masters.

Salvation is a gift. It has always been a gift. It will always be a gift.

No matter how much you hate the idea.
Click to expand...

You only quoted scriptures from God's point of view, You never gave one scripture that shows us that we have to do our part.

I don't work for salvation, no one can as it's a free gift, But there is a difference between working for salvation, and working as a saved person. [Working out our salvation].
You should concentrate on the scriptures that tell what we should be doing. AND DO THEM.
Your teaching are like the false grace teachers. The same teachings as the Nicolaitans, which Jesus and the Church of Ephesus hated.
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#106
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,041
113
77
#106
Sirk said:
Any relationship based on fear is no relationship at all.
Click to expand...
Our relationship with God depends on how we view ourselves. In a household a slaves had no rights they saw the head of the Household as their Master. A son saw him as their Father. Both served in the household but only the son had an inheritance. We have the choice to see ourselves as a Slave or a Son (or Daughter) of God. What we choose will
reflect on what kind of life we experience.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#107
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#107
God4me said:
You only quoted scriptures from God's point of view, You never gave one scripture that shows us that we have to do our part.

I don't work for salvation, no one can as it's a free gift, But there is a difference between working for salvation, and working as a saved person. [Working out our salvation].
You should concentrate on the scriptures that tell what we should be doing. AND DO THEM.
Your teaching are like the false grace teachers. The same teachings as the Nicolaitans, which Jesus and the Church of Ephesus hated.
Click to expand...

God's point of view is the only one that matters. If He said He's going to do something, He's going to do it. What you say or believe has absolutely nothing to do with it. God isn't going to break a promise based on your actions in any way.

Jesus Himself said nothing in ALL CREATION can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hands. Are you a created being? Then not even you yourself can do it by theoretically "walking away" or any other way.

Salvation is a gift that cannot be returned by you, because it's not based on you in any way. Our salvation is based on the finished work of Christ. Grace is unmerited. You can't work to get it, nor can you work to keep it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#108
#108
Budman said:
Good post, and so very true.

It has always amazed me, from my time being here, how those who hammer people so hard by telling them they cannot have any sin in their lives or they will lose their salvation, or were probably never saved to begin with, never acknowledge the fact that they themselves still sin - every single day.

They know it. They simply won't admit it. They are the living embodiment of the Pharisees.

And when confronted with that fact, they either scurry away or double down and ignore the fact they are colossal hypocrites.

Being willfully blind is a terrible thing.
Click to expand...
It is why in reality, the tables are turned, they say we use grace as an excuse to sin, When in reality, we acknowledge our sin, They use their religion to excuse their sin, and never even admit it (well maybe every now and then they make a mistake, or an oopise.. and repent every time, so its ok)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#109
#109
God4me said:
You only quoted scriptures from God's point of view, You never gave one scripture that shows us that we have to do our part.

I don't work for salvation, no one can as it's a free gift, But there is a difference between working for salvation, and working as a saved person. [Working out our salvation].
You should concentrate on the scriptures that tell what we should be doing. AND DO THEM.
Your teaching are like the false grace teachers. The same teachings as the Nicolaitans, which Jesus and the Church of Ephesus hated.
Click to expand...
I am confused.

You say you do not have to work to earn salvation, But then say you have to work to keep salvation, Is that not the same?
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#110
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#110
tanakh said:
Our relationship with God depends on how we view ourselves. In a household a slaves had no rights they saw the head of the Household as their Master. A son saw him as their Father. Both served in the household but only the son had an inheritance. We have the choice to see ourselves as a Slave or a Son (or Daughter) of God. What we choose will
reflect on what kind of life we experience.
Click to expand...
Amen...well said brother! It's in knowing who we are in our Lord because we are in Christ and that releases His life in and through us...(Sorry I couldn't rep you as it said I need to spread it around more.)
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#111
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#111
Budman said:
God's point of view is the only one that matters. If He said He's going to do something, He's going to do it. What you say or believe has absolutely nothing to do with it. God isn't going to break a promise based on your actions in any way.

Jesus Himself said nothing in ALL CREATION can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hands. Are you a created being? Then not even you yourself can do it by theoretically "walking away" or any other way.

Salvation is a gift that cannot be returned by you, because it's not based on you in any way. Our salvation is based on the finished work of Christ. Grace is unmerited. You can't work to get it, nor can you work to keep it.
Click to expand...
Amen...we can no more "un-birth" ourselves as humans by an act of our will then we can "un-birth ourselves" from being one with Christ. We can however have our minds unrenewed to the truth and act out in the flesh but it doesn't change the fact that we are sons now in the Lord Jesus. ( it just mean we are spiritual babies and carnal in our thinking and behaving )
 
G

God4me

Banned
#112
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#112
Budman said:
God's point of view is the only one that matters. If He said He's going to do something, He's going to do it. What you say or believe has absolutely nothing to do with it. God isn't going to break a promise based on your actions in any way.

Jesus Himself said nothing in ALL CREATION can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hands. Are you a created being? Then not even you yourself can do it by theoretically "walking away" or any other way.

Salvation is a gift that cannot be returned by you, because it's not based on you in any way. Our salvation is based on the finished work of Christ. Grace is unmerited. You can't work to get it, nor can you work to keep it.
Click to expand...

God can only do something if His people let Him, He didn't create us robots, He gave us free will.
You need to see how many times God tells us to do things, Like, "present our bodies, Be holy, walk no after the flesh, Walk in the Spirit, be Spirit minded, come out from among them and be separate and cleans ourselves".

Your teachings can mislead people, Just like the false grace teachers mislead people.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#113
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#113
eternally-gratefull said:
I am confused.

You say you do not have to work to earn salvation, But then say you have to work to keep salvation, Is that not the same?
Click to expand...


We are saved by grace through faith, Not by works, But once we are saved, we have to obey the scriptures, such as, Be holy, Present our bodies a living sacrifice, walk in the Spirit, not the flesh, Don't be like the people of the world, but be set apart unto God. All these things are what God expects from us.
You can either agree, or disagree, but you'll never change the facts of what God requires from us.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#114
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#114
God can only do something if His people let Him
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That is the most biblically untrue statement I think I have ever read.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#115
#115
God4me said:
God can only do something if His people let Him, He didn't create us robots, He gave us free will.
You need to see how many times God tells us to do things, Like, "present our bodies, Be holy, walk no after the flesh, Walk in the Spirit, be Spirit minded, come out from among them and be separate and cleans ourselves".

Your teachings can mislead people, Just like the false grace teachers mislead people.
Click to expand...
God never tells us to do those things as a requirement to be saved, He tells us to do those things because we are saved, and they are a way to a better life.
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#116
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#116
God4me said:
We are saved by grace through faith, Not by works, But once we are saved, we have to obey the scriptures, such as, Be holy, Present our bodies a living sacrifice, walk in the Spirit, not the flesh, Don't be like the people of the world, but be set apart unto God. All these things are what God expects from us.
You can either agree, or disagree, but you'll never change the facts of what God requires from us.
Click to expand...

You leave out the part that says we are to be as perfect as God is perfect. And to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, and spirit.

The Bible also says those born of God will not sin - nor can they.

How are you doing on those?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#117
#117
God4me said:
We are saved by grace through faith, Not by works, But once we are saved, we have to obey the scriptures, such as, Be holy, Present our bodies a living sacrifice, walk in the Spirit, not the flesh, Don't be like the people of the world, but be set apart unto God. All these things are what God expects from us.
You can either agree, or disagree, but you'll never change the facts of what God requires from us.
Click to expand...
I do agree with What God wants us to do.

But I will agree with paul when it comes to your teachings.

Galatians 3:3
Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

We are saved by grace, which means we have to continue to be saved by grace, or our salvation was never of grace, it was always of works.. You can not have it any other way.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#118
May 26, 2016
828
7
0
#118
Grace777x70 said:
Amen...we can no more "un-birth" ourselves as humans by an act of our will then we can "un-birth ourselves" from being one with Christ. We can however have our minds unrenewed to the truth and act out in the flesh but it doesn't change the fact that we are sons now in the Lord Jesus. ( it just mean we are spiritual babies and carnal in our thinking and behaving )
Click to expand...

So what do you do with, Heb 6: 4--6. Heb 10: 26--31. 1 Cor 16: 22. [Accursed estrangement from Jesus and salvation]. And those who love Jesus, will want to keep His commandments.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#119
#119
God4me said:
So what do you do with, Heb 6: 4--6. Heb 10: 26--31. 1 Cor 16: 22. [Accursed estrangement from Jesus and salvation]. And those who love Jesus, will want to keep His commandments.
Click to expand...
1. Yes, those who are saved will want to obey Jesus so you answered your own question.
2. As for the passages, Interpret them in a way in which they do not contradict other aspects of scripture.
 
G

God4me

Banned
#120
May 26, 2016
828
7
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#120
Budman said:
That is the most biblically untrue statement I think I have ever read.
Click to expand...

You must be a Calvinist, they think God can do what He wants to. God has given His people authority and power to heal the sick, cast out devils and do miracles, all through the name of Jesus, But He can't make anyone do those things if they chose not to. God tells us to be holy, But He can't make those who don't want to live holy lives.
Jesus couldn't heal some people because they didn't have faith, If God could do anything, why doesn't He make people give tithes, fast, pray all night or a good while before dawn, spend more time with Him.
 
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