God LIED!

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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#61
What you said is not biblical. Luke 12:42-47 Christ gives us the story of the servant who was put in charge by his master. This servant became forgetful of his masters return and began doing things he knew he shouldnt be doing, and on the masters return he was cut up and given a place with the unbelievers. There are other verses in the bible about His followers being given a place with the unbelievers as well. So yes, Christ does teach us that those who go back to living in sin can be cast away from Him.

Did Jesus pay for every single sin or not?

If so, your whole argument falls apart.

If Jesus paid for all sin, there is nothing left to atone for.

Nothing.

You say Jesus taught that those who live in sin can lose their salvation.

How many sins will damn a person?

One, single sin.

So, if you commit even one sin after conversion, you've lost your salvation.

Now tell me....how many times a day do you lose and regain your salvation?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
So yes, Christ does teach us that those who go back to living in sin can be cast away from Him.
1 John 3:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Is it me, or does that statement conflict with the apostle John? What am I missing?
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#63
Hmm...... well i'm curious what you do with all those scriptures that contain phrases like,'endure to the end', 'remaining steadfast' and other similar phrases? Also, have you given any thought to the possibility of 'everlasting', 'eternal' may actually not begin for us until we die. Once we are dead it's set in stone, there are no more chances and everything from that point is everlasting and eternal one way or the other. just a thought.


[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal [G166] life. (from 1 Jn. 2)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Strong's G166 - aiōnios

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

Eternal life is not our life made longer, or life added on after death, it's actually the gift of Christ's ETERNAL LIFE - without beginning and end - given to us.

20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. (from Gal. 2)

Again, I marvel at how some are so determined to disqualify those whom God has qualified in Christ. Being steadfast and enduring comes through learning to trust God, and that can take a lifetime for some.

-JGIG
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
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#64
Did Jesus pay for every single sin or not?

If so, your whole argument falls apart.

If Jesus paid for all sin, there is nothing left to atone for.

Nothing.

You say Jesus taught that those who live in sin can lose their salvation.

How many sins will damn a person?

One, single sin.

So, if you commit even one sin after conversion, you've lost your salvation.

Now tell me....how many times a day do you lose and regain your salvation?
If Jesus paid for everyones sin, who would be cast away from Him? Im pretty sure He paid for those who will come to Him.

2Peter 1:5-12 "For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith; goodness, and to goodness; knowledge, and to knowledge; self control, and to self control; perseverance, and to perseverance; Godliness, and to Godliness; mutual affection, and to mutual affection; love. For if you posses these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive of your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting they have been cleansed from their past sins.
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ"

2Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escape the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter is worse with them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#65
If Jesus paid for everyones sin, who would be cast away from Him? Im pretty sure He paid for those who will come to Him.
1 John 2:2 says Jesus is "...the propitiation for our sins; And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
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#66
1 John 2:2 says Jesus is "...the propitiation for our sins; And not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
So all of man will be saved?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
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#67
So all of man will be saved?
A pardon is offered to all. But it's only as good as it's acceptance.

Like when a man is on death row, and receives a pardon by the governor. As far as the Law is concerned, his offenses are forgiven. But the man can refuse the pardon, and thus be put to death.
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
3,632
175
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#68
A pardon is offered to all. But it's only as good as it's acceptance.

Like when a man is on death row, and receives a pardon by the governor. As far as the Law is concerned, his offenses are forgiven. But the man can refuse the pardon, and thus be put to death.
Meaning the sacrifice goes to those who accept it, yes. And if we accept Him, then we must come to Him. And if we come to Him, we must be willing to obey Him as our Lord. Repent of our sins, and turn from them and seek Him.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#69
Meaning the sacrifice goes to those who accept it, yes. And if we accept Him, then we must come to Him. And if we come to Him, we must be willing to obey Him as our Lord. Repent of our sins, and turn from them and seek Him.

It goes deeper than that. Since you've accepted God's pardon, every single offense you have committed, or will ever commit, is forgiven. That's the very reason why you cannot lose your salvation due to your actions. You cannot "turn away" from what has been swept away - as far as the east is from the west.

There is nothing left for you to pay for, because you could never pay for it to begin with.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#70
Are you saying its ok to sin all we want and not care who we hurt lor cause to stumle? How exactly does that work?

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (from Rom. 6)

Are you saying that the believer must be perfect and never sin again, hurt another, or cause another to stumble or they lose their salvation?

How is it that the Good News is only Good News if you're not saved, but after you're saved the news is all bad?

How exactly does that work?

-JGIG
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
167
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#71
It is because of love and concern for you, and those like you, that we keep presenting the truth of God's unmerited favor.

You are confusing what we could do and what we should do. No one is advocating a sinful lifestyle, but what we are saying is true: Salvation is not dependent on how we behave. The reason? It's not based on us - it's based on Christ. To say that our actions determine whether we lose our salvation, is to say that the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross did not pay for every single sin.


The ones that are truly weak are those who don't trust God enough to believe salvation is truly a gift that cannot be earned.

Yes!

And the counter-intuitive reality is that the more secure we become in understanding the Truths of our (God's for us) salvation, the LESS power sin has in our lives!

Oh, that all believers could SEE it! Oh that all believers WOULD see it!

-JGIG
 

Yeraza_Bats

Senior Member
Dec 11, 2014
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#72
Titus 2:11-14 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works"

Titus 1:16 "The profess that they know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#73
Titus 2:11-14 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men. Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and Godly in this present world. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works"

Titus 1:16 "The profess that they know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
Those don't disprove any of what I wrote. Yes, there certainly are people who claim to be Christians and are not. Matthew 7:21-23 speaks of those.

But again, for those who are born again, there is nothing to atone for. Our actions have no bearing on our eternal security. Our walk with God may suffer, as He will chastise us, but we can never be lost.

Our salvation is based on what Christ did. As long as He lives, so shall the permanence of our salvation be.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#74
We chose salvation, we can choose to stop living in it.. it's us leaving him.. ex18, heb6, heb10..
People confuse the gift with an all expenses paid lay back and enjoy.. The Bible is full of instructions that are our part to do after salvation.. Salvation is being reconciled to God, not an easy pass to Heaven.. We live for a King in a Kingdom.. If you don't follow His ways, you don't enter.. Many parables of this truth can be read..
 
S

Scriptureplz

Guest
#75
If Jesus paid for everyones sin, who would be cast away from Him? Im pretty sure He paid for those who will come to Him.

2Peter 1:5-12 "For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith; goodness, and to goodness; knowledge, and to knowledge; self control, and to self control; perseverance, and to perseverance; Godliness, and to Godliness; mutual affection, and to mutual affection; love. For if you posses these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive of your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting they have been cleansed from their past sins.
Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ"

2Peter 2:20-22 "For if after they have escape the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter is worse with them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than after they have known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."
"Who would be cast away from Him"?

UNBELIEVERS

John 3:36 (KJV)

[SUP]36 [/SUP]He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.




To believe means that you know there is nothing to be added to the finished work of Christ and trust Him alone to save you unconditionally. That is called faith, and if you believe your contribution is needed, you have not believed in His work alone, and are in fact an "unbeliever".
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#76
We chose salvation, we can choose to stop living in it.. it's us leaving him.. ex18, heb6, heb10..
People confuse the gift with an all expenses paid lay back and enjoy.. The Bible is full of instructions that are our part to do after salvation.. Salvation is being reconciled to God, not an easy pass to Heaven.. We live for a King in a Kingdom.. If you don't follow His ways, you don't enter.. Many parables of this truth can be read..
It is a gift. That means it can not ever be earned

We can not save ourselves. the bible says God must save us.

God reconciled us to himself. we did not and can not reconcile ourselves to god.

This is what seperates legalism, from grace..
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
#77
We chose salvation, we can choose to stop living in it.. it's us leaving him.. ex18, heb6, heb10..
People confuse the gift with an all expenses paid lay back and enjoy.. The Bible is full of instructions that are our part to do after salvation.. Salvation is being reconciled to God, not an easy pass to Heaven.. We live for a King in a Kingdom.. If you don't follow His ways, you don't enter.. Many parables of this truth can be read..

Jesus said: "This is the work that God requires; to believe in the one He has sent." (John 6:29)

That's it, and that's all.
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#78
Paying for all sin is man taught doctrine.. heb 10 says quite different...
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#79
If you believe you'll follow His commands.. come on. Link scripts and then come back
 
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HisHolly

Guest
#80
People want an easy ride..