Okay, now that I have your attention....
One of the main things that is troublesome to my soul, are those who believe one must strive to live the "Christian life" in order to remain saved. They believe that if you sin too much after your conversion, you can lose your salvation. Or they believe you can "give" your salvation back to God and walk away. Or, they'll say, if you don't live and act in a Christian "manner" it proves you were never saved at all.
I wanted to point out, that if one can lose their salvation, based on their performance in
any way, then that makes God a
liar.
Yes I agree with this, if my intention is to earn my way through to the kingdom it will not work, my passage has been paid for on a lump of wood 2000 years ago.
Jesus said that He gives us eternal life, and that we shall
never perish, and that
no one can snatch us out of His, or the Father's hand. (John 3:16, 10: 28-29)
Yep.
If we can lose our salvation, then we
will perish, and we
will indeed be snatched out of the hands of Jesus and the Father.
This statement is not correct If we could/can, then why do you say we will perish or Will indeed be snatched out of His hands. You take a word that is conjecture and make it a certainty, this is what is not correct. It is subtle though, therefore your verdict is misplaced.
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says that we have been
sealed by the Holy Spirit which is a
pledge guaranteeing our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 5:5)
We are, we live in a world that is given to satan to rule. The only bit of it guaranteed not to be in His control is where the Spirit of God is, in us as individuals.
If we can lose our salvation, then there is
no guarantee of our inheritance and the seal of the Holy Spirit is conditional.
I do hear what you say, and I know this is a run up to this "works" stuff. I have asked God about this and he has given me this;
Heb 12
12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth
so easily beset us, and let us
run with patience the race that is set before us,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,
despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself,
lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
This comes down to living the life choices we make. We are told to "Keep ourselves pure", to "run from sin" "that so easily besets us". Why do you think this is? The Holy Spirit on more than one occasion in my life has warned me about something and I have not listened, He gets fainter every time. I have a prompt to interpret and don't I get another and still don't then I don't get another one and it is too quiet. I get a prompt to speak out, tongue or not and I don't eventually the prompting goes and all is silent. We are told to not let sin rule in our bodies, why is this? Because God can not look on sin let alone live where sin is. The parable of the prodigal son shows that to God we can be dead, the servants and the talents, shows that they were servants and include "weeping and gnashing of teeth".
The verdict here should be we have free will.
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says Jesus will
never leave us or forsake us. (Hebrews 13:5)
No he will never, and to this I/we hold IF this is the choice we make Jesus will never let us down. And just for those who will jump on this "we make" bit, the choice to serve Jesus is a choice we all have to make and does not involve doing works to secure our salvation.
If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus
has left and forsaken us.
Your doing it again, making a possibility into a certainty, you cant keep doing this it is not correct.
The verdict is not valid
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says Jesus
always lives to make intercession for us. (Hebrews 7:25)
Yes He does, Praise Him!
If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus
will not always make intercession for us - only while we remain saved.
This is your interpretation and I disagree with it most strongly. I never stopped loving my Eldest daughter until the day she died, she was never far from my thoughts even when she plied herself on the streets for her next fix. We may walk away and turn to our own ways but we always have an intercessor. Besides my daughter I myself have needed Jesus intercession and am grateful for it. But the love of a parent within me lets me know, AND IS confirmed by the Holy Spirit, that this concern and love is never taken away from us.
The verdict is them made unprofitable.
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says we are
sealed for the Day of Redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
This should be taken with the rest of the chapter, it is talking about those things that will separate us from the gift we have in Jesus; V1
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
V 12
For the perfecting of the saints
V 17-18
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, [SUP]18 [/SUP]Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Surly then walking in this way brings about ignorance and blindness of heart.
V 27
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts.
"Put off" is not working works to salvation, it is so we can, as he said in the previous verses V 23 and 24 it is to;
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
And the part you missed in V 30;
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God . . .
If we can lose our salvation, then we are
not sealed until the Day of Redemption, but only up until we are lost again.
The worst thing about this is it is your perception of the whole thing and it brings dissension. It brings brother against brother and takes our eyes of Jesus and puts them on ourselves and others. Showing what others have been led to in Christ shows a weak Christ and He is anything but. You are His and if you squander His works so you can live your life as you want with no consequence then you will have a rude awakening.
Verdict: God
LIED.????
Jesus said that He will lose
none of us, but
will raise us up on the last day. (John 6:39)
Amen to this
If we can lose our salvation, then Jesus
will, in fact, lose some of us, and
will not raise us up on the last day.
What you say is true, I have felt the grief of the Holy Spirit for some who have died and I include my daughter in this, I also include my youngest daughter in this, she has not died yet and I know she met with the Lord as a child, but since she left home over 12 years ago I have noticed I do not know her any more, I still love her deeply and pray for her.
Verdict: God
LIED. Your opinion.
Jesus said that believers will
never come into judgment, and have
passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
Yes isn't it wonderful, those who believe and walk in His way have passed from death to life. I did not understand this until earlier this year, The Holy spirit showed me a truth and I shared it on here in CC. Grace 777x70 commented on it.
If we can lose our salvation, then we
will go back under judgment, and
pass from life back into death.
Again, this is repetitive, you take an uncertainty and make it a certainty;
Gal 4
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, where unto ye desire again to be in bondage?
and
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Verdict annulled
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says our calling is
irrevocable. (Roman 11:29)
[SUP]29 [/SUP]For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
You must have a different bible to me, the word irrevocable is used in the NIV but Paul is talking about the restoration of Israel not our gentile individual calling.
If we can lose our salvation, then our calling is indeed
revocable.
????
Verdict: God
LIED.????
The Bible says salvation is a
gift from God. (Ephesians 2:8)
Yep
If we can lose our salvation, then salvation is
not a gift, but a
wage to be
earned.
This is your conjecture, salvation can never be earned, just chosen, and as a birthday gift can be thrown into the bin so can Gods gifts be squandered and thrown out with the trash. Why does everyone who agree with you think that everything is earned by works, this is used as a club to brow beat people into submission, not me!
Verdict: God
LIED. Verdict invalid.
The Bible says
nothing in all creation (that includes us as created beings)
can separate us from the love of God. (Romans 8:38-39)
Again I disagree with you, yes we are created things, but our own free will is not under the control of God or Jesus or the angels or satan, it is under my, your, our control. if we want to stay chosen there is nothing we can come up against that will change that, nothing.
If we can lose our salvation, then something
can indeed separate us from the love of God.
Yes US!
Verdict invalid
Verdict: God
LIED.
The Bible says God will
complete the good work that He began in us. (Philippians 1:6)
Yes, (this record is stuck again) if we chose to be chosen.
If we can lose our salvation, then God's good work
will not be completed.
Ha ha! I think youv'e got it!
Verdict: God
LIED. May be not, verdict invalid.
The Bible says we have
been perfected for all time. (Hebrews 10:14)
Yes as long as we remain chosen
If we can lose our salvation, then we certainly are
not perfected for all time.
No we are not, see you are getting good at this
Verdict: God
LIED. Here we go again, may be not . verdict invalid.
The Bible says our inheritance is
imperishable, can
never spoil, and is
unfading, guarded by God's power. (1 Peter 1:3-5)
Yes, hallelujah! we will receive our reward YAY!
If we can lose our salvation, then our inheritance
will perish, will
spoil, and
will fade.
NO, but here we have the servant relationship (that's us folks) here again;
Luke 19
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Why then didn’t you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?’ [SUP]24 [/SUP]“Then he said to those standing by, ‘Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.’
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“‘Sir,’ they said, ‘he already has ten!’
[SUP]26 [/SUP]“He replied, ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what they have will be taken away. [SUP]27 [/SUP]But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”
Verdict: God
LIED. Verdict invalid
The Bible says if we drink from the living water that is Christ, we will
never be thirsty again. (John 4:14)
Hallelujah! this is because we have the well spring living in us, the Holy Spirit.
If we can lose our salvation, then
we will indeed be thirsty again.
Yep, and there is/will be, no longer a sacrifice that will cover our sin should the master of the house return as a thief (as in a time not known to us), read the scriptures they are plain "there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth".
Verdict: God
LIED. Verdict invalid
The Bible says God
will sustain us to the end, guiltless in the day of the Lord Jesus. (1 Corinthians 1:8)
Yes he sort of is, but Paul is giving thanks for the things he has heard of the Corinthians, and telling them that keeping the faith will lead to God sustaining them.
If we can lose our salvation, then we
will not be sustained until the day of the Lord.
Now you seem to be getting it, if we loose our salvation we certainly will not be sustained and face that day with terror, but if we give thanks and accept Christ's sacrifice as a covering for our sin/turning away we will regain that sustainment.
Verdict: God
LIED.Verdict invalid.
The Bible says that our debt to God has been
canceled through Christ Jesus. (Colossians 2:13-14)
Yes.
If we can lose our salvation, our debt
has not truly been canceled.
You are wrong in this statement, what has been thrown in to the deepest parts of the sea will stay there, God will not rake up our past misdemeanours, but the offence we would make turning our backs on Him is unfathomable.
Verdict: God
LIED.Verdict invalid
Jesus said that those who are His will
never hunger nor thirst again. (John 6:35)
Amen.
If we can lose our salvation, then we
will again hunger and thirst.
Yep
Verdict: God
LIED. Verdict invalid
So, what is
your verdict? Did God lie to us when He made all of those promises, or is our salvation indeed eternal and irrevocable?
