Dinosaurs Never Existed!

[GaryA]

Are any of you in the practice of reading Dake's Bible? It's like a commentary Bible, they propose the very much possiblity of a Pre-Adamic era in which man was not present and various creatures and demons and so on roamed this earth possibly alongside the dinosaurs. And those fossils are not fake, billions of fossils, really? But more importantly, what has not been revealed to us in the Bible is not for us. It's just that simple, we can ask Jesus when we get to heaven. And while on earth we humans looove speculating, conspiring and all that fun stuff but it won't get us anywhere really, it won't change the truth. And the truth whatever it is needs to be left alone until it is revealed to us.

Geez, go invest all your brains and intelligence and time into discovering something like sustainable fuel or something.

The Bible teaches us that there was no death on the earth until Adam and Eve sinned. This means that nothing could have lived - and died - on the earth - before Adam and Eve.

The truth does not need to be "left alone" - it needs to be "searched out"...

And, it all starts with:


Genesis 1:

[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Ugh. What non-biblical nonsense. Anything to make use of those billions of years found in so-called 'science'.

I'm younger than you but even I know that this isn't the proper ettiqute to talk to someone or behave on a public interface. Be open to debate and respect other people.

"He means no disrespect to you --- he only disrespects your information..."

 

[GaryA]

You must be joking. Illustrate for me in your words: how fossilization works; how strata form; and in scientific vernacular, how evolutionists have concluded that fossil distribution in the strata makes evolution necessary.

Then, refute in your own terms.

If you are not able to demonstrate a sound understanding of the nuance and complexity of the argument FOR evolution, then any arguments you have formed against it are frankly ill informed and should be totally disregarded.

Prove to me that you understand from an evolutionist's perspective why they believe the distribution of specific fossils in the strata demandsthat evolution be true, and then I will consider your counterargument one by one and we can discuss them.

Sorry, the joke is on you --- "Thus saith the Lord GOD" trumps "you have to prove to me that you fully and completely understand every detail of my point of view" every single time...

 

[Ingerlund]

Sorry, the joke is on you --- "Thus saith the Lord GOD" trumps "you have to prove to me that you fully and completely understand every detail of my point of view" every single time...

Yea it's my point of view. My point of view like rocks are grey, the sky is blue, the Earth is round, the sea has water, salt is salty, grass is green, plants use chlorophyll, water, CO2 and sunlight for energy; and fossil distribution in geological strata shows a divergence of lifeforms over extremely long periods of time.

 

[mikeysaurus]

The Bible teaches us that there was no death on the earth until Adam and Eve sinned. This means that nothing could have lived - and died - on the earth - before Adam and Eve.

The truth does not need to be "left alone" - it needs to be "searched out"...

And, it all starts with:


Genesis 1:

[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.




"He means no disrespect to you --- he only disrespects your information..."

Disrespect in general isn't a good thing, you should respect and 'disagree'. And who said they were dead? Isn't it known that demons tend to sometimes take on animallistic forms or mutated, strange forms in our dreams and visions? It's a fact, and this proves that they were disembodied and cast to the abyss as a punishment. They are now very much here. And you also need to know that death is another name for sin or the father of sin, it always isn't literal death. Just because we die doesn't mean death has a hold on us, so what the Bible is trying to say is that death of the spirit entered the earth, the real kind of death, for the wages of sin is death.

 

[Ingerlund]

But you won't, or genuinely can't, understand the concepts you need to in order to recognize that evolution happened. Just because it is too complicated for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work! Just because you won't or can't understand it, doesn't make it false!

I don't understand weight distribution and atmospheric pressure equations that provide balance during trans-atmospheric jet propulsions, but rockets DO go into space.

 

[mikeysaurus]

The Bible teaches us that there was no death on the earth until Adam and Eve sinned. This means that nothing could have lived - and died - on the earth - before Adam and Eve.

The truth does not need to be "left alone" - it needs to be "searched out"...

And, it all starts with:


Genesis 1:

[SUP]1[/SUP] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.




"He means no disrespect to you --- he only disrespects your information..."

Are you trying to tell me that what isn't revealed to us in the Bible needs to still be sought out? There is a reason it's not in the Bible! And that's because we don't need that knowledge, God advices us not to be lost in fantasies and imaginations and not to become slaves to knowledge. How great are we to forcibly aqquire the knowledge that is not meant for us? We are mere specs, servants of the Lord.

And I want you to consider this, it is said 'in the begining' and that means in the begining, how are we to determine when that was? There is nothing solid connecting verses one and two.

 

[posthuman]

not saying what i believe or don't -- but the common young-earth-creationism (YEC) explanation of the fossil record is that all these animals lived simultaneously on earth and that the fossilization can all be accounted for by the flood. they will point at evidence that fossilization can take place very rapidly under certain conditions, and appeal to the flood also to explain geographical features that appear to have been caused by many ages of erosion.

they will say that there was no death on the earth of any kind before Adam & Eve & the earth were cursed because of sin, and point to the Genesis curse where God says they will die, and that the earth is cursed on their account, and they will point at Romans 5:12-17 where Paul says death entered the world (kosmos - a somewhat ambiguous term that can refer to the earth, specifically to the system of human thought & government etc, the entire universe, or to a limited construct of spiritual influence), that death reigned 'from Adam until Moses' (though death was by no means 'eradicated' by Moses) and that death, the result of sin, spread to all men through Adam.
they will point at a logical question, asking how could God look at all His creation and call it "very good" if plants and animals died & even became extinct for millions of years before man was placed in the garden?
from all this, they will say "therefore there was no death before Adam & Eve sinned. this is when all animals and plants first died or began to decay."

but though God does say that the earth is cursed for man's sake, He doesn't say that no plants or animals ever died before this, or that there was no such thing as decay. and Paul is definitely talking about mankind, not about every living creature -- so there's a lot of extrapolating in those arguments from scripture.
and -- the scripture is very clear that sin results in death: and also clear that Satan was a liar from the beginning -- so we have the serpent committing sin before the earth was cursed, and before death entered "the kosmos" through Adam -- so was this sinful serpent death-less? there are also cogent arguments to be made supporting that what the Bible si saying about death is addressing mankind, not the whole animal kingdom.
and of plants -- Jesus Himself said

Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
​

so, did when we read in Genesis that God created the grasses of the field and caused them to cover the earth, should we believe that none of them reproduced at all? that every single plant was miraculously placed? because here Christ explains plant reproduction necessitates the "death" of the seed. hey -- maybe it is the case that that this is how God covered the earth in vegetation. maybe when Adam & Eve ate fruit, the fruit remained alive inside them even while they digested it. i frankly do not know. but it's maybe something to think about -- and as soon as you say 'death' didn't apply to plants, just men and animals, then you have to wonder why it should apply to animals too, or if the scripture is only commenting on mankind after all. it is a book written for humans, not plants, and not animals. maybe they have a different book we don't know about

yet all creation groans in anticipation of His redemption, and all the earth was 'subjected to frustration' not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who made it -- in hope for liberation. ((Romans 8:22-25)) when did He subject it? that's the question.

 

[GaryA]

Yea it's my point of view. My point of view like rocks are grey, the sky is blue, the Earth is round, the sea has water, salt is salty, grass is green, plants use chlorophyll, water, CO2 and sunlight for energy; and fossil distribution in geological strata shows a divergence of lifeforms over extremely long periods of time.

What if the 'geological strata' were all laid down at once -- say, during a world-wide flood?

What say you about the S-shaped "folds" of 'geological strata' that exist in places on the earth?

What say you about the petrified trees found running through multiple layers of that 'geological strata'?

How does the Biblical flood fit into your view? How extensively did it affect change of the surface of the earth?

 

[GaryA]

Disrespect in general isn't a good thing, you should respect and 'disagree'.

Yes, but your skin should be thick enough so that every little remark someone makes - that you disagree with - does not "hurt your feelings" and make you whine about it.

Grow up!

Accept the fact that other people's posts are simply their opinion. If something someone writes "just really 'chews you up and spits you out'..." --- does that not mean that there is something to what they have said? ( Perhaps the Holy Spirit may be trying to get you to let go of the worldly CRAP that you have been taught to believe - and listen to what He is trying to tell you in the Word of God? )

Yes, it is important that we be 'civil' towards each other. Yes, to "agree to disagree agreeably" is the best solution if a better one cannot be had. Yes, we should stand up for truth and protect the sanctity of a wholesome society.

However, there needs to be a "balance" also -- whereby "we can take it" if someone happens to disagree with us.

"Sometimes, you need to 'just accept it and move on'..."

It can destroy a discussion in-a-heart-beat to obsess over such little things as a difference of opinion. If you want to "stay true" to the discussion, then try to "stay with" what is being discussed - and "steer clear" of the emotional-effects-on-you of what other people have to say in their posts.

Do you realize that - if you get "bent all out of shape" at something someone says in a post - you are allowing them - in a psychological sense - to control and influence you? And, you are allowing the demons to "play with you"...? ( Read your Bible... 'anger', 'resentment', etc. do not come from the Holy Spirit. )

And who said they were dead? Isn't it known that demons tend to sometimes take on animallistic forms or mutated, strange forms in our dreams and visions? It's a fact, and this proves that they were disembodied and cast to the abyss as a punishment. They are now very much here. And you also need to know that death is another name for sin or the father of sin, it always isn't literal death. Just because we die doesn't mean death has a hold on us, so what the Bible is trying to say is that death of the spirit entered the earth, the real kind of death, for the wages of sin is death.

All of this is moot.

Death is death - 'physical' or 'spiritual'. Death - 'physical' nor 'spiritual' - existed before sin came into the world. Whether death has a hold on anyone or anything or not is beside the point; the fact that something dies is what we are talking about. And, the Bible teaches us that there was no death before sin.

Is that where all of the fossils ( proof of dead things? ) came from - demons?

( "Man --- some people with twist everything in existence so that they can believe what they want to believe..." )

 

[GaryA]

But you won't, or genuinely can't, understand the concepts you need to in order to recognize that evolution happened. Just because it is too complicated for you, doesn't mean it doesn't work! Just because you won't or can't understand it, doesn't make it false!

I don't understand weight distribution and atmospheric pressure equations that provide balance during trans-atmospheric jet propulsions, but rockets DO go into space.

I understand "plenty" about evolution - and its foundation. I just simply do not believe it. Why? Because I also understand "plenty" about some other things, too -- including what the Word of God says...

 

[BeyondET]

Yes, but your skin should be thick enough so that every little remark someone makes - that you disagree with - does not "hurt your feelings" and make you whine about it.

Grow up!

Accept the fact that other people's posts are simply their opinion. If something someone writes "just really 'chews you up and spits you out'..." --- does that not mean that there is something to what they have said? ( Perhaps the Holy Spirit may be trying to get you to let go of the worldly CRAP that you have been taught to believe - and listen to what He is trying to tell you in the Word of God? )

Yes, it is important that we be 'civil' towards each other. Yes, to "agree to disagree agreeably" is the best solution if a better one cannot be had. Yes, we should stand up for truth and protect the sanctity of a wholesome society.

However, there needs to be a "balance" also -- whereby "we can take it" if someone happens to disagree with us.

"Sometimes, you need to 'just accept it and move on'..."

It can destroy a discussion in-a-heart-beat to obsess over such little things as a difference of opinion. If you want to "stay true" to the discussion, then try to "stay with" what is being discussed - and "steer clear" of the emotional-effects-on-you of what other people have to say in their posts.

Do you realize that - if you get "bent all out of shape" at something someone says in a post - you are allowing them - in a psychological sense - to control and influence you? And, you are allowing the demons to "play with you"...? ( Read your Bible... 'anger', 'resentment', etc. do not come from the Holy Spirit. )



All of this is moot.

Death is death - 'physical' or 'spiritual'. Death - 'physical' nor 'spiritual' - existed before sin came into the world. Whether death has a hold on anyone or anything or not is beside the point; the fact that something dies is what we are talking about. And, the Bible teaches us that there was no death before sin.

Is that where all of the fossils ( proof of dead things? ) came from - demons?

( "Man --- some people with twist everything in existence so that they can believe what they want to believe..." )

well of sin is according to what happened in the beginning of man and woman, animals aren't judged for their sins, yes animals die because of mans sin but the bird in the wild doesn't die because of sin.

Scripture doesn't say animals are accountable for sin, Yes verses talk about the serpent in the tree but scripture doesn't say that all animals are under the law of sin. A lot of what verses say is of spiritual death but all physical living creation, until I read or shown from the bible about that I'm inclined to disagree about animals too.

 

[GaryA]

Are you trying to tell me that what isn't revealed to us in the Bible needs to still be sought out?

No, that is not what I am saying. There are some things that we are to "leave alone" -- the 'seven thunders' is a good example that comes to mind right now...

I am speaking in a more general sense -- i.e. - to search out and understand what God is trying to tell us - and is wanting us to know -- about Him, us, our existence, etc.

There is a reason it's not in the Bible! And that's because we don't need that knowledge, God advices us not to be lost in fantasies and imaginations and not to become slaves to knowledge.

Yet - that is exactly what evolutionists have done.

How great are we to forcibly aqquire the knowledge that is not meant for us? We are mere specs, servants of the Lord.

I am saying that we should aquire the knowledge that is meant for us.

And I want you to consider this, it is said 'in the begining' and that means in the begining, how are we to determine when that was?

Where - and when - I come from -- saying something like this would be considered a rebellious in-their-face show of disrespect toward an elder...

Where - and when - I come from -- "respecting your elders" was a big thing.

Oh -- don't worry -- it does not hurt my feelings a bit. I can handle it. I understand the context. In a context like this, all 'members' - "as members" - are "technically" - "in effect" - "on 'equal' ground" with regard to posting in a thread. However, what a person shows toward what they take another member to be is "over and beyond" the simple technicality of forum rules. My point to you is this:

"Who are you such that you think you have a lock on what is and is not considered to be 'respect' or 'disrespect'...?"

I say this to get you to think. I am not angry. I am not trying to "shove it down your throat", or any such similar thing.

A lot has changed in the past 50 years.

If you are only 23, you should not be telling quite-a-bit-older-than-you folks what 'respect' and 'disrespect' are. You should give them a-bit-of-room for possibly knowing and understanding some things that you do not. To do otherwise suggests that you think you-know-it-all at the wise-age-and-experience-of-23. Well --- ( "I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but..." ) --- there is a lot that was before your time. And, there is a lot of 'disrespect' in the younger generations today.

And - "guess what" -- God was before it all. His wisdom is above it all.

I would like to suggest to you - and admonish you - and encourage you - to listen to what He says -- above everyone else. Listen to Him "above and before" -- all of the opinions of men ( speaking here of mankind; i.e. - "humans", male and female ) - all 'science' - all 'literature' -- all things created, produced, promulgated, or otherwise put forth by anyone other than the Creator Himself. And, if you believe the Bible to be the [ true ] Word of God -- well then, ... Now you know what to put "above and before" all else...

If any 'opinion' disagrees with what God says -- it is "worthless", excepting that it is a proof of the ability of Satan to deceive...

From "the 'wisdom' of the experience of my age" -- that is the best advice I can give you. Please consider it...

There is nothing solid connecting verses one and two.

"Oh, but there is --- it is called 'grammar'..."

The first word of verse 2 - 'And' - defines it as a continuation of verse 1 -- thus, connecting it with the 'beginning' of verse 1, by virtue of the word 'earth' in both verses - which is the same in the Hebrew.

Grammatically, there is a direct "connection and flow" from verse 1 to verse 2.

Believe-it-or-not!

"Believe what you will..."

 

[GaryA]

not saying what i believe or don't -- but the common young-earth-creationism (YEC) explanation of the fossil record is that all these animals lived simultaneously on earth and that the fossilization can all be accounted for by the flood. they will point at evidence that fossilization can take place very rapidly under certain conditions, and appeal to the flood also to explain geographical features that appear to have been caused by many ages of erosion.

they will say that there was no death on the earth of any kind before Adam & Eve & the earth were cursed because of sin, and point to the Genesis curse where God says they will die, and that the earth is cursed on their account, and they will point at Romans 5:12-17 where Paul says death entered the world (kosmos - a somewhat ambiguous term that can refer to the earth, specifically to the system of human thought & government etc, the entire universe, or to a limited construct of spiritual influence), that death reigned 'from Adam until Moses' (though death was by no means 'eradicated' by Moses) and that death, the result of sin, spread to all men through Adam.
they will point at a logical question, asking how could God look at all His creation and call it "very good" if plants and animals died & even became extinct for millions of years before man was placed in the garden?
from all this, they will say "therefore there was no death before Adam & Eve sinned. this is when all animals and plants first died or began to decay."

but though God does say that the earth is cursed for man's sake, He doesn't say that no plants or animals ever died before this, or that there was no such thing as decay. and Paul is definitely talking about mankind, not about every living creature -- so there's a lot of extrapolating in those arguments from scripture.
and -- the scripture is very clear that sin results in death: and also clear that Satan was a liar from the beginning -- so we have the serpent committing sin before the earth was cursed, and before death entered "the kosmos" through Adam -- so was this sinful serpent death-less? there are also cogent arguments to be made supporting that what the Bible si saying about death is addressing mankind, not the whole animal kingdom.
and of plants -- Jesus Himself said

Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.
​

so, did when we read in Genesis that God created the grasses of the field and caused them to cover the earth, should we believe that none of them reproduced at all? that every single plant was miraculously placed? because here Christ explains plant reproduction necessitates the "death" of the seed. hey -- maybe it is the case that that this is how God covered the earth in vegetation. maybe when Adam & Eve ate fruit, the fruit remained alive inside them even while they digested it. i frankly do not know. but it's maybe something to think about -- and as soon as you say 'death' didn't apply to plants, just men and animals, then you have to wonder why it should apply to animals too, or if the scripture is only commenting on mankind after all. it is a book written for humans, not plants, and not animals. maybe they have a different book we don't know about

yet all creation groans in anticipation of His redemption, and all the earth was 'subjected to frustration' not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who made it -- in hope for liberation. ((Romans 8:22-25)) when did He subject it? that's the question.

"I will have to try to get to this later..."

However, the use of the word 'die' in John 12:24 is very interesting -- especially considering that the Bible generally teaches that plants 'wither' rather than 'die' -- i.e. - from a biblical perspective, plants are not "alive" in the same sense that "things with blood" are:


Leviticus 17:

[SUP]11[/SUP] For the life of the flesh is in the blood: ...


"Time for an English-and-Greek language study..."

 

[GaryA]

well of sin is according to what happened in the beginning of man and woman, animals aren't judged for their sins, yes animals die because of mans sin but the bird in the wild doesn't die because of sin.

Scripture doesn't say animals are accountable for sin, Yes verses talk about the serpent in the tree but scripture doesn't say that all animals are under the law of sin. A lot of what verses say is of spiritual death but all physical living creation, until I read or shown from the bible about that I'm inclined to disagree about animals too.

The sin of man "tainted" the whole earth.

Everything that is 'alive' ( please understand the context, based on my earlier 'wither' vs 'die' statement ) - that dies - dies because of the sin of man. It has nothing to do with being "under the law"; it has to do with being "touched" by the curse of sin. Even the ground is cursed:


Genesis 3:

[SUP]17[/SUP] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Genesis 5:

[SUP]29[/SUP] And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

Genesis 8:

[SUP]21[/SUP] And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

 

[BeyondET]

The sin of man "tainted" the whole earth.

Everything that is 'alive' ( please understand the context, based on my earlier 'wither' vs 'die' statement ) - that dies - dies because of the sin of man. It has nothing to do with being "under the law"; it has to do with being "touched" by the curse of sin. Even the ground is cursed:


Genesis 3:

[SUP]17[/SUP] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Genesis 5:

[SUP]29[/SUP] And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.

Genesis 8:

[SUP]21[/SUP] And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Yes the ground the dust man come from, but scripture doesn't say animals thats what I believe,, so surely this disagreement in views isn't going to bare any fruit between us on that issue only.. but I'm not saying you don't have that right also to your view most surely you do Sir.. And I've enjoyed our conversation indeed.

 

[posthuman]

Genesis 3:

[SUP]17[/SUP] And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

if we look at the whole context, it gives some details of that curse the earth fell under.
that the earth will bring thorns and thistles when Adam works to eat from it. it will no longer simply provide food for him as it had previously in the garden, i presume: he will now eat bread by the sweat of his brow (where previously, he ate of the fruit of the garden - no mention of bread until now. does that mean bread didn't exist? lol who knows, who knows.)

that every creature and plant will now or the first time ever see decay and death? well, that's not specifically mentioned here. that's extrapolation. it may be true; it may not be. what i know is true is that the ground was cursed through sin, that Adam was the first man to sin, after Eve the first human, and that there was already a sinful serpent before that.
other details aren't provided. the scripture concerns itself with the relationship between God & man and leaves off explaining the entire universe. maybe for the sake of brevity

And to Adam he said,
“Because you have listened to the voice of your wife
and have eaten of the tree
of which I commanded you,
‘You shall not eat of it,’
cursed is the ground because of you;
in pain you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you;
and you shall eat the plants of the field.
By the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread,
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
for you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”
(Genesis 3:17-19)
​

 

[Reconciled2Yahweh]

The Bible speaks of the leviathan in Job 41 and its description would suggest it to be what we have been told is a dinosaur. I believe God created amazing animals at Creation. But as it says in Genesis 6 and other extra-biblical texts, all things became evil and corrupt. From the searching I have done it seems, the rebellious angels came and impregnated the women, which resulted in super-human beings that God never intended to be; and then those beings then bore "children" and they (all man) were not satisfied with just this, they then wanted to manipulate animal dna. I believe that the "dino's" that God created were gentle and plant eaters. Then with the genetic manipulation, they became evil, intent on only destruction of others. Im not say the t-rex looked like it did, if ever, but these imaginations of man's mind has to be influenced by something. And the greatest lies have 99% truth and 1% false. As for the flat earth...well that's another whole study. Yahweh bless.

 

[mikeysaurus]

[QI=GaryA;2646135]Yes, but your skin should be thick enough so that every little remark someone makes - that you disagree with - does not "hurt your feelings" and make you whine about it.

Grow up!

Accept the fact that other people's posts are simply their opinion. If something someone writes "just really 'chews you up and spits you out'..." --- does that not mean that there is something to what they have said? ( Perhaps the Holy Spirit may be trying to get you to let go of the worldly CRAP that you have been taught to believe - and listen to what He is trying to tell you in the Word of God? )

Yes, it is important that we be 'civil' towards each other. Yes, to "agree to disagree agreeably" is the best solution if a better one cannot be had. Yes, we should stand up for truth and protect the sanctity of a wholesome society.

However, there needs to be a "balance" also -- whereby "we can take it" if someone happens to disagree with us.

"Sometimes, you need to 'just accept it and move on'..."

It can destroy a discussion in-a-heart-beat to obsess over such little things as a difference of opinion. If you want to "stay true" to the discussion, then try to "stay with" what is being discussed - and "steer clear" of the emotional-effects-on-you of what other people have to say in their posts.

Do you realize that - if you get "bent all out of shape" at something someone says in a post - you are allowing them - in a psychological sense - to control and influence you? And, you are allowing the demons to "play with you"...? ( Read your Bible... 'anger', 'resentment', etc. do not come from the Holy Spirit. )



All of this is moot.

Death is death - 'physical' or 'spiritual'. Death - 'physical' nor 'spiritual' - existed before sin came into the world. Whether death has a hold on anyone or anything or not is beside the point; the fact that something dies is what we are talking about. And, the Bible teaches us that there was no death before sin.

Is that where all of the fossils ( proof of dead things? ) came from - demons?

( "Man --- some people with twist everything in existence so that they can believe what they want to believe..." )

[/QUOTE]

Do NOT use the winky face or happy smilies when you are participating in such a debate, it shows mockery - like when you called my knowledge 'CRAP'? Yeah, not cool man.

I can't believe the shallowness of your thinking, God is said to have shown anger and wrath many times in the Old Testament when his people sinned and what about when Jesus was at the temple market? All anger is not from the evil one, you're a human being too, don't be a hypocrite, we are all works in progress. And you say I've missed the substance that is discussion by my one line telling someone to respect other people while here you are with a nice long paragraph telling me how truth is important while at the same time I need to agree with something that I know is not true, this is the Word and when I see it being misunderstood or misinterpreted I will not stand it, call me adamant or anything. And then you go on to completely call my point moot and give not so much as a few sentences in defence of your view point.

Lets be done with this okay? But in the sportiveness of a constructive debate let me leave on this note. Do you meditate on what you read in the Bible? What is physical death? It's a lie, we will exist in our glorified bodies, our physical bodies matter not, they are prone to decay and sin. Physical death is so negligible to those of us that know the truth! To live is Christ and to die is gain, right? Then according to you why does Paul say this physical death is a gain for him? He certainly doesn't mean he's going to die in his spirit, he's in heaven.

What do you fear more? Physical death or dying in your spirit by condemnation? Death crept in as a penalty for our sins, and why is it a penalty if Paul calls it a gain? That's because after Adam and Eve sinned the wages of sin became death of the spirit, eternal death.

 

[GaryA]

 

[mikeysaurus]

Where - and when - I come from -- "respecting your elders" was a big thing.

If you are only 23

"Oh, but there is --- it is called 'grammar'..."

The first word of verse 2 - 'And' - defines it as a continuation of verse 1 -- thus, connecting it with the 'beginning' of verse 1, by virtue of the word 'earth' in both verses - which is the same in the Hebrew.

Grammatically, there is a direct "connection and flow" from verse 1 to verse 2.

Believe-it-or-not!

"Believe what you will..."

Where I come from we call those older than us uncle and aunty so uncle, I really thank you for the advice you have for me and I will accept it because that's the only thing I agree with you on.

And reading more than one translation of the Bible is a very good practice - it's just a suggestion, I don't want to offend you again uncle - and I mean such as the Amplified Bible, even maybe Bibles in different languages. As I have noticed in our more popular English translations (such as NIV and KJV) and as many can observe some things are missing which in other versions are given better. In my state we have our language called Kannada and this Bible is many times closer to the original Bible than English is. Thoelogists usually refer many sources before coming up with any theories. And in many translations of the Bible 'And' isn't even there or it's 'now'.

It's a good thing I'm not 23 then.