Ok look,
I''ve given you the key to finding out the subject of this verse, but you dont seem to want to use it, or cant see it.
So im gunna try to lay it out for you and Why I feel this is the true subject of this verse.
And No, it wouldnt be "meet Jesus in thebreathing hard"
And I don't appreciate you being patronizing in a logical theological discussion.
I feel I presented my case to you with rasonable evidence that this verse isn't refering to the subject you are refering to"A rapture" As you seem to think it means.
The way it should be translated is just as I've staed it before.........
Could it be that Paul was saing that at the last trump "we who are alive and remain will be caught up in a crowd of others to meet whith Him in the breath of life"oor spirit.
Now heres why I think this could mean this
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Notice how the texts say that God Breathed into Adams' nostrils The breath of life.
Which is the exact thing that Paul sais in the verse we,re discussing at this very moment ,Translated AIR
I apologized if you feel I was being patronizing. I can assure you that I was not and I would not have done that to you or anybody else. I have read your previous posts and they contained more the pasting of geek definition than what you actually thought. Had you been cleared, at least in my opinion, I would not have even asked you to rephrase the text. It was hard for me to see what you actually meant. It was hard for me to even present an argument because I could not see what you were trying to convey from giving the definitions.
Now that you've made it clear (
we who are alive and remain will be caught up in a crowd of others to meet whith Him in the breath of life) I get a clear understand of what you are saying.
Although this seems like a nice interpretation, it is inconsistent with the text. It seems that this interpretation derived solely from a misunderstanding of two words: 1) Clouds and 2) Air.
First, the Greek word
nephelē that is used here makes absolutely no reference to crowd. There is no inference in any shape or form of a multitude. You must not confuse nephele with nephos (the root of nephele). The Greek word that is used in 1 Thessalonian 4 is nephele and not nephos. Its definition is straightly a cloud as we know it to be. In fact, in all of its 26 usage throughout the whole new testament has been used to represent a cloud. (Mat 17:5, Mat 24:30, Mat 26:64, Mar 9:7, Mar 13:26, Mar 14:62, Luk 9:34, Luk 9:35, Luk 12:54, Luk 21:27, Act 1:9, 1Cr 10:1, 1Cr 10:2, 1Th 4:17, 2Pe 2:17, Jud 1:12, Rev 1:7, Rev 10:1, Rev 11:12, Rev 14:14, Rev 14:15, Rev 14:16)
Second, when you go back to the old testament, the Hebrew word used for "breathed" there is
nĕshamah which literally means breath or spirit (breath of GOd, breath of man, spirit, or every breathing thing). There is a Greek word that would convey this meaning that Paul could have used if this is indeed what he meant to say. The Greek word is pneuma and here is what it means:
1) the third person of the triune God, the Holy Spirit, coequal, coeternal with the Father and the Son
a) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his personality and character (the "Holy" Spirit)
b) sometimes referred to in a way which emphasises his work and power (the Spirit of "Truth")
c) never referred to as a depersonalised force
2) the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated
a) the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides
b) the soul
3) a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
a) a life giving spirit
b) a human soul that has left the body
c) a spirit higher than man but lower than God, i.e. an angel
1) used of demons, or evil spirits, who were conceived as inhabiting the bodies of men
2) the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels and equal to God, the divine nature of Christ
4) the disposition or influence which fills and governs the soul of any one
a) the efficient source of any power, affection, emotion, desire, etc.
5) a movement of air (a gentle blast)
a) of the wind, hence the wind itself
b) breath of nostrils or mouth
Paul used this word here to represent this spirit: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Lastly, the Greek word that is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 for air is aer, Greek code G109, and it means:
1) the air, particularly the lower and denser air as distinguished from the higher and rarer air
2) the atmospheric region
As you can see, one of the two direct definition of the word itself means "the atmospheric region." Furthermore, the usage of that word itself has always been used to describe the atmospheric region. Here are the 7 verses in the New Testament where this word appears and not even a single one of them even imply the interpretation you conclude.
Acts 22:23 - Then, as they cried out and tore off [their] clothes and threw dust into the
air,
1 Corinthians 9:26 - Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as [one who] beats the
air.
1 Corinthians 14:9 - So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the
air.
Ephesians 2:2 - in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the
air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
Revelation 9:2 - And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the
air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.
Revelation 16:17 - Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the
air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!"
It seems that to arrive to the conclusion that you have, you have to make a very long stretch that is inconsistent with the context of the scripture, the Greek words, and the usage of the words throughout the New Testament.
P.S. Where are you getting the Greek definitions from?
Again, I apologize if it seemed that I was being patronizing.
