Is Socialism biblical?

[BenFTW]

I don't see capitalism as evil, or for example, the position of salesman. It is quite honorable, in fact. There is a problem of which you offer a solution. Supply and demand. The parties make a transaction of which both parties win. Its called a "win-win scenario." Its fair trade. That you offer a solution at a price is not immoral, it is simply fair trade so that the world may go round.

You wouldn't offer a tribal Indian a painting for some fur coats. You might possibly trade him a gun so that he may continue to get more fur and thereby continue his business. In this way the trade is fair, and beneficial to both parties. No one is being taken advantage of and both individuals win.

Capitalism is good, but it must be done with integrity.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

2 minute video. One aspect of the debate.

[video=youtube;g-o0kD9f6wo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-o0kD9f6wo[/video]

 

[CS1]

2 minute video. One aspect of the debate.

[video=youtube;g-o0kD9f6wo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-o0kD9f6wo[/video]

yep well said

 

[Jesus4ever]

Capitalism is good, but it must be done with integrity.

Capitalism is way fairer than Socialism. Man is evil, not Capitalism. You can have a million dollars and do God´s work, feeding, clothing and helping all those how need, and you can have $1000, be stingy and care only about making fortunes, despising all those in need.

1 Tim 10:6 is clear!

 

[jaybird88]

Capitalism is good, but it must be done with integrity.

Capitalism is way fairer than Socialism.

the driving forces of capitalism are greed and accumulation of wealth. that is the polar opposite of fairness.

how much integrity did enron have? the difference between enron and the rest of them on wall street, enron got caught.

accumulation of wealth is also something Jesus taught specifically against.

 

[coby2]

Capitalism is way fairer than Socialism. Man is evil, not Capitalism. You can have a million dollars and do God´s work, feeding, clothing and helping all those how need, and you can have $1000, be stingy and care only about making fortunes, despising all those in need.

1 Tim 10:6 is clear!

That's why you put the socialist elements in and force them LOL. If they didn't have that here almost noone would give to some stranger.

 

[jaybird88]

That's why you put the socialist elements in and force them LOL. If they didn't have that here almost noone would give to some stranger.

we used to have those social element here in the usa back in the 40s, 50s and 60s, workers had more rights, municipal housing,water/power, etc. the corporations infected our government and they have been rolling back these social programs ever since.

 

[kaylagrl]

Socialism is built on envy...
capitalism is built on greed.
Neither will work without a biblical base.

True capitalism is not based on greed, crony capitalism is,thats the difference.

 

[Jesus4ever]

the driving forces of capitalism are greed and accumulation of wealth. that is the polar opposite of fairness.

how much integrity did enron have? the difference between enron and the rest of them on wall street, enron got caught.

accumulation of wealth is also something Jesus taught specifically against.

I beg to differ, dear brother:

1) Greed is not a driving force of Capitalism, at least it´s in the ideological aspect. Greed is part of the human nature, leads to corruption and ends up. Greed is not particular to Capitalism. Do you believe there´s greed in Socialist countries?

2) Accumulation of wealth was not the problem to Jesus. The love of money it´s the whole problem! You can make a lot of money and not love it and love it an never be able to make it. Does the Bible prohibits rich people? What to say about Abraham, David, Job and Joseph of Arimateha, then? The problem is to being rich or accumulate wealth, brother. Man´s heart is.

 

[jamie26301]

2) Accumulation of wealth was not the problem to Jesus. The love of money it´s the whole problem! You can make a lot of money and not love it and love it an never be able to make it. Does the Bible prohibits rich people? What to say about Abraham, David, Job and Joseph of Arimateha, then? The problem is to being rich or accumulate wealth, brother. Man´s heart is.

Jesus taught that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. That's not to say impossible (cultural/language context) but that it is highly unlikely. As we build wealth, we build delusions of trust in it, because the higher quality the lock, the harder it is to pick. See how that works? As you can afford more and more security, you're likely to lose trust in God because of the tangible security you think you have.

But being poor, or working hard for very little, can break the spirit and cause one to curse God. Working hard, only to have food on the table and barely pay the rent, AND THEN seeing those with far more security and income seemingly not doing much, or have inherited, or such, the unfairness can make one bitter.

The writer of Proverbs prayed "allow me to have enough, not too little, not too much" (paraphrase) There was a reason that he didn't want poverty, OR to be rich. He was wise about his own psychology, and his natural dispositions as a sinner to certain circumstances.

 

[Jesus4ever]

That's why you put the socialist elements in and force them LOL. If they didn't have that here almost noone would give to some stranger.

That´s the whole key to Socialism, sister: coercion!

Something like: "Guy A went to a store to buy clothes and shoes. Guy B is outside the store, with no shoes, nor a sweater. Guy A buys all he needs, with the money he earned by his hard work. He then goes outside the store. As soon as he leaves, Guy C approaches him, riding a horse. He then says to Guy A:

- "You must give your shoes and sweater to Guy B, because he doens´t have them. If you don´t, we´ll pay the consequences of that.".

Neither Guy B is entitled to that, neither Guy A gave it of his free will, neither Guy C respects Guy´s A property/freedom.

 

[jaybird88]

I beg to differ, dear brother:

1) Greed is not a driving force of Capitalism, at least it´s in the ideological aspect. Greed is part of the human nature, leads to corruption and ends up. Greed is not particular to Capitalism. Do you believe there´s greed in Socialist countries?

when people work an extra 10 hours to buy something they dont even need, yes this is greed. and what is the root cause of the greed? why does a brain scientist make more money working for a marketing company than he ever could for a university? this is what capitalism leads to.
yes there is greed in socialist countries. like i said b4, socialism is no better.

2) Accumulation of wealth was not the problem to Jesus. The love of money it´s the whole problem! You can make a lot of money and not love it and love it an never be able to make it. Does the Bible prohibits rich people? What to say about Abraham, David, Job and Joseph of Arimateha, then? The problem is to being rich or accumulate wealth, brother. Man´s heart is.

why in the world would anyone devote so much time and effort to making lots of money if they did not love money?

Matthew 6:19-21
Treasures in Heaven(A) 19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth,(B) where moths and vermin destroy,(C) and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven,(D) where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.(E) 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.(F)

 

[kaylagrl]

I´ve been thinking about this subject very much. From what I´ve seen, there are different opinions about it. Some state the Socialism is biblical, other that only Capitalism is shown in the Bible. Others, say that Acts 2:44-46 supports Communism. Personally I tend to agree that Socialism is wrong and not biblical, and least of all Communism.


What´s your opinion? Do you think Socialism/Communism is biblical and/or pleases God?


God bless you!

 

[Mitspa]

Nothing more pathetic than a socialist than one that tries to use Christ to justify it.

 

[Jesus4ever]

Jesus taught that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. That's not to say impossible (cultural/language context) but that it is highly unlikely. As we build wealth, we build delusions of trust in it, because the higher quality the lock, the harder it is to pick. See how that works? As you can afford more and more security, you're likely to lose trust in God because of the tangible security you think you have.

But being poor, or working hard for very little, can break the spirit and cause one to curse God. Working hard, only to have food on the table and barely pay the rent, AND THEN seeing those with far more security and income seemingly not doing much, or have inherited, or such, the unfairness can make one bitter.

The writer of Proverbs prayed "allow me to have enough, not too little, not too much" (paraphrase) There was a reason that he didn't want poverty, OR to be rich. He was wise about his own psychology, and his natural dispositions as a sinner to certain circumstances.

I can see your point, sister. However, Matt 19:24 does not refer to rich people as a whole. If you read it in a literal way you may conclude that. Why did Jesus said that? Because He saw the heart of that man and his love of money and lack of compassion for the poor! It´s quite a different thing.

I think God provides and gives to each one of us in different ways. Some have more than others. Some have many, others little! Some of those who have many do not do God´s work, refusing to help those in need. Other´s with little do it. And vice-versa. Man should not distribute wealth by coercive ways!

 

[kaylagrl]

I can see your point, sister. However, Matt 19:24 does not refer to rich people as a whole. If you read it in a literal way you may conclude that. Why did Jesus said that? Because He saw the heart of that man and his love of money and lack of compassion for the poor! It´s quite a different thing.

I think God provides and gives to each one of us in different ways. Some have more than others. Some have many, others little! Some of those who have many do not do God´s work, refusing to help those in need. Other´s with little do it. And vice-versa. Man should not distribute wealth by coercive ways!

Exactly, Job had wealth, lost it all and gained back all he had and more. If being rich was a sin God would not have given Job back his riches.

 

[Jesus4ever]

when people work an extra 10 hours to buy something they dont even need, yes this is greed. and what is the root cause of the greed? why does a brain scientist make more money working for a marketing company than he ever could for a university? this is what capitalism leads to.
yes there is greed in socialist countries. like i said b4, socialism is no better.


why in the world would anyone devote so much time and effort to making lots of money if they did not love money?

Matthew 6:19-21
Treasures in Heaven(A) 19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth,(B) where moths and vermin destroy,(C) and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven,(D) where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.(E) 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.(F)

Do you consider that greed, bother? I have more than one shirt. Only one would be sufficient, then, since I have only one body. Is it greed wanting to have 3 more shirts, with different colors? I think buying something we really don´t need it may be a wasted of money, and in some cases it may be greed based, but not all situations are like that.


I most cases yes, people worship money and want more and more and more. But saying all people how make lost of money love it, is an assumption I do not make. It´s the same saying all rich people worship money and not God.

Again, Matt 19-21 also relates to the love of money and its worship instead of God´s. And again, it´s all about human heart, not how much money you have.

 

[Jesus4ever]

Exactly, Job had wealth, lost it all and gained back all he had and more. If being rich was a sin God would not have given Job back his riches.

That´s the whole point, sister! God gives and what He gives (be it much or little) shoudn´t be taken to give others. We should give our money back to the Kingdom and therefore to God, by our own will and by the amount we want.

 

[jaybird88]

I think God provides and gives to each one of us in different ways. Some have more than others. Some have many, others little! Some of those who have many do not do God´s work, refusing to help those in need. Other´s with little do it. And vice-versa. Man should not distribute wealth by coercive ways!

when you have lots of wealth and possessions, you do not need what our Lord provides.

i have riches, 2 kids, a family that gave me lots of love when i was a kid, lots of awesome friends here on CC. and these riches cost nothing.

 

[jaybird88]

Do you consider that greed, bother? I have more than one shirt. Only one would be sufficient, then, since I have only one body. Is it greed wanting to have 3 more shirts, with different colors? I think buying something we really don´t need it may be a wasted of money, and in some cases it may be greed based, but not all situations are like that.


I most cases yes, people worship money and want more and more and more. But saying all people how make lost of money love it, is an assumption I do not make. It´s the same saying all rich people worship money and not God.

Again, Matt 19-21 also relates to the love of money and its worship instead of God´s. And again, it´s all about human heart, not how much money you have.

when our Lord made the earth "it was good" and our Lord stopped. mankind can not do this. when we make something we do not sit back and say "this is good" and make the most of it, we try and make it better. how can we ever enjoy anything when we always think there is something better. there has to be balance.