Is Socialism biblical?

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coby2

Guest
#21
#21
Jesus4ever said:


And doesn´t Socialism promote laziness too? When you expect the state to support your needs...! We´re both European, sister. I guess we know well what´s Socialism all about. :) You´d be surprised to see how many people live at the expense of at the state, without doing anything, or just for being from ethnically "needy".


I beg to differ again. Men is evil and selfish, not capitalism. In my opinion, Capitalism is more just and freer than Socialism or Communism.

On this we agree, brother! But we must do it to serve God and by our initiative, not by coercion. There´s no morality in Socialism or Communism. You are forced, on the penalty of being punished, if you do not give your money to help others. Plus, what´s your, it´s yours. Private property is clearly biblical. You should pay your taxes and give to God what you want (in this case, serving Him by helping the needed).
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We have a mix here. In the seventies you could just hang around and go fishing and get paid quite good. But because people are selfish that got a bit too expensive LOL. They do force you to work if you can and if someone does no effort, they have to apply for jobs all the time, they get less and it's not much.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#22
#22
Angela53510 said:
First, socialism and communism are NOT the same thing! Not even close.

Canada has a mixed economy, which means we have social systems to help people that are paid for by taxpayers. This includes things like education, police, fire, infrastructure and roads. It also includes free health care for all. That is our highest value in the country our health care system, and Christians support this, too. I have a friend from seminary who is American, now pastoring in a small community in northern Alberta, and he thinks socialized medicine is the best thing ever. And baby bonus checks - which they seem to be doing differently these days. Even though he and his wife and children are American, he lives on a very small wage, and is eligible for the child tax benefits and monthly child benefits too. Of course, the work he does in the community is invaluable, to say nothing of his missionary and evangelical heart.

We also have a lot of free enterprise - from small businesses to large multinational corporations. They pay their share of taxes, invest in the economy, create jobs and generally the whole country benefits from private enterprise. That works well for Canada, too.

I do think we need to care for the poor and needy and that is Biblical. An "every man for himself" type of country is not Biblical. A government that only looks after the rich, by say, bailing out banks and rich corporations, but doesn't help the poor and needy, or a medical system that bankrupts people every day is not a godly system.

I always remember reading one of CS Lewis' books. He talks about socialism and the Bible - he concludes, by saying, most Americans won't agree with him, but he thinks that the Bible's ideal of a perfect society is a socialist one, and I tend to agree with him.

So the country you live in and the propaganda you hear are things which generally influence our perception of the most Biblical system of government. I prefer to live in a country that takes a little more, and know that everyone is being taken care of, because I certainly cannot with my "mite" take care of everyone!
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I say this ... anyone promoting socialism does not understand the intention of the American constitution that's main focus was to limit government ... and socialism is completely contrary to sound biblical doctrine and the intentions of a spiritual life in Christ.
 
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coby2

Guest
#23
#23
John146 said:
I understand what you're saying, but giving to support others should not be forced by a government. It should be a free will act of love and only to those who can't help themselves. The Church should lead the way.
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Yes that would be ideal. Lol but the Dutch are so stingy, churches have no money, so the govt had to force them.
 
Jesus4ever

Jesus4ever

Senior Member
#24
May 18, 2015
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#24
trofimus said:
In some socialistic countries like Sweden (well, its almost a dictature now) you MUST give into state welfare system so much, that you cant make any real savings and must live in a whole-life dependence on government.


Biblical socialism was a free giving, they were not forced to give so much, that all are equally poor like in state socialism. And Paul said "who does not want to work let him not eat too".
That is what I would call "socialism that could actually work - biblical pattern for socialism" - to give freely as much as you want to a charity, but nothing to them who do not want to work or actively change their situation.
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That´s the whole idea of the Left, brother. Everything has to be controlled by the state. And you are forced to do the whole "wealth distribution". How´s that for liberty or morality?

I´m sorry, brother, but that´s not Socialism. Socialism resumes, overall to "wealth distribution" to the welfare of all. It´s about the community. Both Israel authorities and disciples only help the ones in need! There wasn´t any kind of wealth distribution. That´s exactly what the Right defends: - Only those in really need are helped. Others will live with what they have/God gives and will work harder to find better conditions to have better incomes.
 
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coby2

Guest
#25
#25
Mitspa said:
I say this ... anyone promoting socialism does not understand the intention of the American constitution that's main focus was to limit government ... and socialism is completely contrary to sound biblical doctrine and the intentions of a spiritual life in Christ.
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Israel had to take care of the poor.
Too much govt power is evil but letting people die while you live in luxury is also evil, Lazarus and the rich man. My ex's aunt lived in the States before Obama care. She had cancer. Not enough money for morphine, well bad luck, she screamed through the hospital from pain. Her husband moved to Holland when she died, just in case. Or that guy I spoke on a forum who wanted to commit suicide because he lost his job and now he would be homeless. What??? And the tv pastors buy a new swimming pool. That's also evil. What's bad about forcing those?
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#26
#26
coby2 said:
Israel had to take care of the poor.
Too much govt power is evil but letting people die while you live in luxury is also evil, Lazarus and the rich man. My ex's aunt lived in the States before Obama care. She had cancer. Not enough money for morphine, well bad luck, she screamed through the hospital from pain. Her husband moved to Holland when she died, just in case. Or that guy I spoke on a forum who wanted to commit suicide because he lost his job and now he would be homeless. What??? And the tv pastors buy a new swimming pool. That's also evil. What's bad about forcing those?
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Not sure any point you made relates to anything I said? Biblical Israel was not a socialist state..thats silly and as far as someone not getting morphine until Obama care ? I find that doubtful as well and more people have been harmed by Obamacare than helped ..that is evident
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#27
Jan 24, 2011
11,784
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#27
Mitspa said:
I say this ... anyone promoting socialism does not understand the intention of the American constitution that's main focus was to limit government ... and socialism is completely contrary to sound biblical doctrine and the intentions of a spiritual life in Christ.
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I prefer to understand the intention of the Canadian constitution. Try and look at the flag next to my name, before you post such absurd nonsense. The USA is not the only country in the world, and it certainly has some real deficits that have been produced by a system which only donors money, not God. I really don't care what the US constitution says - I just see it has produced a whack load of problems, and it is not a document authored by God, or even Christians.

Socialism, caring for the people of the country you live in, is a much more sound Biblical doctrine.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#28
#28
socialism is unbiblical, un-American and unconstitutional
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#29
#29
Angela53510 said:
I prefer to understand the intention of the Canadian constitution. Try and look at the flag next to my name, before you post such absurd nonsense. The USA is not the only country in the world, and it certainly has some real deficits that have been produced by a system which only donors money, not God. I really don't care what the US constitution says - I just see it has produced a whack load of problems, and it is not a document authored by God, or even Christians.

Socialism, caring for the people of the country you live in, is a much more sound Biblical doctrine.
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Keep your socialism and we will keep our freedom..and if you believe socialism is biblical? It just proves your biblical ignorance
 
Jesus4ever

Jesus4ever

Senior Member
#30
May 18, 2015
783
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#30
coby2 said:
Israel had to take care of the poor.
Too much govt power is evil but letting people die while you live in luxury is also evil, Lazarus and the rich man. My ex's aunt lived in the States before Obama care. She had cancer. Not enough money for morphine, well bad luck, she screamed through the hospital from pain. Her husband moved to Holland when she died, just in case. Or that guy I spoke on a forum who wanted to commit suicide because he lost his job and now he would be homeless. What??? And the tv pastors buy a new swimming pool. That's also evil. What's bad about forcing those?
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I´m sorry to know that, sister. But that´s wrong! A state should help those in need, but only those! That´s exactly what the Israeli authorities did. No country should reject helping those who really need. No person should stay without health treatment just because of being poor (and by poor I mean having real difficulties).

But there´s a difference between helping only those who need and having a society forced to live in Socialism and Communism. You can have a Capitalist country that help those who need.
 
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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#31
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
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#31
Socialism is built on envy...
capitalism is built on greed.
Neither will work without a biblical base.
 
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mpaper345

Banned
#32
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
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#32
Jesus4ever said:
I´ve been thinking about this subject very much. From what I´ve seen, there are different opinions about it. Some state the Socialism is biblical, other that only Capitalism is shown in the Bible. Others, say that Acts 2:44-46 supports Communism. Personally I tend to agree that Socialism is wrong and not biblical, and least of all Communism.


What´s your opinion? Do you think Socialism/Communism is biblical and/or pleases God?


God bless you!
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so·cial·ism


[ˈsōSHəˌlizəm]


[h=4]NOUN[/h]

  • a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

    The early Church in Acts sold all they had,and gave to the saints as each person had need,and had all things common,which means they shared everything,and God said He wants equality among the saints,so those that had a lot,had nothing left over,and those who had a little,did not lack.

    So I would suppose that it could be kind of like socialism,but God's way works out better,and people will prosper better,because God will see to it,where the system of man can falter,and stumble,and some may do without.

    But the Communistic trait is not good,in that it is atheist,and Russia caused a great deal to spread concerning atheism,but they do take away the classes,and everybody is basically on the same level,which is good,for it cuts down on fighting,and God said He wants equality among the saints.

    Capitalism is not good,in that they allow people to heap money,and material things,with no limit,which causes people to not like each other as much,because they become self exalting,not caring for those around them,which the attitude becomes you do not care about me,I do not care about you,and they drift apart as a society more as time goes,which Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall grow cold.

    Also America allows many worldly,and fleshy pleasures,that causes many hypocrites concerning the Church,and people to not want to embrace Christianity,which is dangerous,but good that the Christians are protected from persecution,unlike some nations.

    Russia might have some good points,and bad points,and America might have some good points,and bad points,and as well as other nations.

    With what it boils down to is this.No government,and operation of a nation,set up by people,without God in control,is going to have faults.It may have some good points,but it will have faults,because people setting up a government,and operating in a nation,is incapable of providing a perfect system that benefits people the best.

    Only God can do that,which Jesus will prove God can do that,in the millennial reign of Christ,which will be a perfect system of operating on earth.

    There has not been a nation that has allowed God to completely control it,and have His way in that nation,without them interfering,and injecting some of their own ways in to that system,except Israel when they were in the truth concerning God,and the Old Testament ordinances,but they messed up at times,injecting their own ways in to that system.

    Not even America,that claims to be a Christian nation,allows God to completely control it,and have His way,without injecting some of their own ways in to that system,for they allow so many things that God is against in to that system.

    Like I said,no nation has allowed God to completely control it,and have His way in that system,without them injecting some of their own ways in to that system,except Israel when they were in the truth.

    Any system that man tries to create,to operate in their nation,that God is not in complete control,will have it's flaws,and the people will not completely benefit from that system,like God wants them to benefit,for they are incapable of providing such a system,unless they let God completely control it,which God said He made man upright,but they sought out many inventions.

    All people's systems will fail eventually,without God in complete control,which the beast kingdom will cause the failing of all Gentile governments,when they try to achieve peace on earth,by their own methods.




 
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John146

Senior Member
#33
Jan 13, 2016
16,930
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#33
It's not biblical if its forced. No system of government is good when dealing with immoral people.

Angela53510 said:
I prefer to understand the intention of the Canadian constitution. Try and look at the flag next to my name, before you post such absurd nonsense. The USA is not the only country in the world, and it certainly has some real deficits that have been produced by a system which only donors money, not God. I really don't care what the US constitution says - I just see it has produced a whack load of problems, and it is not a document authored by God, or even Christians.

Socialism, caring for the people of the country you live in, is a much more sound Biblical doctrine.
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hornetguy

hornetguy

Senior Member
#34
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
1,561
113
#34
coby2 said:
Israel had to take care of the poor.
Too much govt power is evil but letting people die while you live in luxury is also evil, Lazarus and the rich man. My ex's aunt lived in the States before Obama care. She had cancer. Not enough money for morphine, well bad luck, she screamed through the hospital from pain. Her husband moved to Holland when she died, just in case. Or that guy I spoke on a forum who wanted to commit suicide because he lost his job and now he would be homeless. What??? And the tv pastors buy a new swimming pool. That's also evil. What's bad about forcing those?
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Ok, so how would you "force" those? There is no way to do it, other than to simply take it away from them. That's theft.

The current buzz-phrase is "income equality".... so, tell me... how would you accomplish that?

If I go to school, sacrifice to get a degree so that I can make a good income, how is it "fair" to take away a large percentage of that to give to those that CHOOSE to not go to school, not improve themselves, and not work hard?

Or, a business owner that has sacrificed his time, his income, risking financial failure, and has become a smashing success..... now all of a sudden, he's evil, because he makes a lot of money? Come on....

Taking away money from those who earned it, to give it to those that WON'T work, is a horrible DIS-incentive. It stifles the spirit, and stops research, innovation, and business success.
 
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psalm6819

Guest
#36
#36
Mitspa said:
Keep your socialism and we will keep our freedom..and if you believe socialism is biblical? It just proves your biblical ignorance
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count to ten.........be kind to our neighbors to the north and be kind to Angela, she doesn't just talk the talk she walks the walk.
 
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skylove7

Guest
#38
#38
crossnote said:
Socialism is built on envy...
capitalism is built on greed.
Neither will work without a biblical base.
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Good one Crossnote!
I don't follow politics
But I just pray!

Lol
Prayer is cool! Lol
 
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Mitspa

Guest
#39
#39
psalm6819 said:
count to ten.........be kind to our neighbors to the north and be kind to Angela, she doesn't just talk the talk she walks the walk.
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I know who I am and my walk before the Lord and I know real biblical doctrine .. I think her comment towards me was something about "absurd nonsense".. so ... let her finish the fights she starts and when she needs a sharp rebuke ... I will give it as I see fit.
 
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