getting dates about a young earth

[4enlightment]

The flood was referred to as ancient in the Sumerian king lists.




Lol they could not. They did not know about the globe,. They merely said that they were widespread,



Many written BEFORE 2400 BC






an ice age unrecorded in history?


but history can't be changed and that goes back well beyond 6000 years.

The Bible doesn't infer it. YOU infer it.

[video]https://youtu.be/bmjzE9wHBUU[/video]


Theory means assumption and which evolution is an theory not facts. When measuring something, they uses a method of measuring the present decaying of material without using the possibility that things were different at time, that atmospheric changes has taking place that can hinder the flow of things and how it decay. The face cloth of Jesus and the shroud of Turin were given two different dates that are centuries apart from each other but proven that the blood stain image has taken place at the same time. The dating method that they uses is built on the assumptions that the majority has agreed upon how old a certain material is and uses that material as an ruler to measure everything else but that ruler might not be accurate.

 

[BeyondET]

[video]https://youtu.be/bmjzE9wHBUU[/video]


Theory means assumption and which evolution is an theory not facts. When measuring something, they uses a method of measuring the present decaying of material without using the possibility that things were different at time, that atmospheric changes has taking place that can hinder the flow of things and how it decay. The face cloth of Jesus and the shroud of Turin were given two different dates that are centuries apart from each other but proven that the blood stain image has taken place at the same time. The dating method that they uses is built on the assumptions that the majority has agreed upon how old a certain material is and uses that material as an ruler to measure everything else but that ruler might not be accurate.

Choice.......

 

[Dan_473]

Lol they could not. They did not know about the globe,. They merely said that they were widespread.

in your view, does the bible talk about a flood such that all the high mountains under the heavens were covered? a worldwide flood?

what's your take on what mainstream science has to say about a global flood?

 

[Dan_473]

something I've always found interesting about the flood account in genesis.

chapter 7 says, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open".

if we want to match the story up with mainstream science, what would those fountains be?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

something I've always found interesting about the flood account in genesis.

chapter 7 says, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open".

if we want to match the story up with mainstream science, what would those fountains be?

How do you interpret Gen 1: 6

The firmanent (plate) that separated the waters from the waters, What was it?

 

[JesusIsAll]

There is so many logical issues with some of these arguments.

Example: billions of years? Where is the evidence? You have weird dating methods that are continually discredited. But even more importantly where are the BONES? If you look at the last 100 years of life we have so many scattered bones from people and animals dying, yet in BILLIONS of years very little do you have any comprehension of how much time that is? If you look at a 1% reproduction rate of humans in under a hundred thousand years we would fill the planet all the way up to the moon. And the 1% reproduction rate is so we can survive.

And here's the biggest issue: Scripture is completely contrary to evolution.

1. Death entered the world through man. Man did not enter the world through death and "natural selection".
2. Species take after their own kind. That means animals didn't change into new species either.

Which makes perfect sense when you look at OBSERVABLE evidence. You have to add billions on to some of these theories for them to hold any water. When the arguments make no logical sense the reply is well it took time, billions of years.

You might be thinking well an old Earth doesn't have anything to do with evolution. Well it does because if you have humans on Earth from the beginning with the old Earth model you have a lot of issues. Scripture tells us animals were created for man. And man named them. So from a Scripture stand point man is the focus of everything.

Yet people think Earth was just sitting around for billions of years without man and animals? Okay so let's think of this. Why were trees given (Genesis) for food. But if there are no humankind or animalkind what food are they for?

If you think the Creation Days are millions or billions of years apart you have another issue.

Day 3: Vegetation is created.
Day 4: Sun is created.

Vegetation, trees, etc need sunlight. If it's not a literal day you have a huge issue of the green things surviving.

Day 6 man is created. And God says the following...

28God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

All the fish, birds, every living creature was created for man to rule over. Why? Because God rules over everything. And we are made in His image.

29Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

All the seed bearing plants are given for man to have food. Later this was changed into eating animals.

30And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

And now all the beasts, birds, and creatures are to eat the green plants for food. If this isn't literal days you have HUGE problems.

1. You don't have sun for green plants.
2. You don't have man to name the animals.
3. It's not until the 6th day that it "became so" which means animals weren't eating green plants yet.

31God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day.

Notice God is stressing ALL He made. He's not stressing what He made in the 6th day. It was built as a package deal. And all of these takes away the idea of Day 1, 2, 3 etc were not literally very short periods (not millions, billions of years between). Unless God did it supernaturally and made animals that didn't need green plants etc until it was the 6th "epoch". But if you're going to believe that why not believe that God made it in 6 days like His readers, Jesus, and the calendar all imply! Consider for instance we have 24 literal days and it stresses (morning and evening). Hence the same as we have. Why say morning and evening if it's not morning and evening? Kinda ridiculous. But if you're going to believe all that why not believe God is well able to do it all in 6 days and man is wrong right now in his understanding of dating?

C.

Very well said. The "evening and morning" is a good example of the Bible being literal, where many Christians will part company. The "evening and morning" phrase has a clear intent to frame the day in precise terms man can understand as an ordinary day. The fact is, though, many deny the real power of God, what He can really do in a day's work, as if they don't realize He need not fabricate anything, could say, "Let there be a forest, full of all different sorts of trees," and there it is, in an instant.

Perhaps ironic, I came to see the young creation not through science, rather through history, at an age when I didn't understand all the science, to object to it. What you see of the history of civilization is a written record cropping-up all over the world, among isolated peoples, only some thousands of years BC. (That is what historians consider the real thing, a written record left by a civilization, absent unproven theories of paintings on cave walls, etc.) The Sumerians or Egyptians weren't writing 50,000 years earlier than, say, the Chinese, still in the throws of evolving slanted eyes, rather the ancient Chinese also started to write at about the same time, that is, the historic record dating on the order of 3000 BC, plus or minus some, but not tens of thousands of years, no orders of time as evolutionists claim. Same with India and South America. If all these people are evolving as different races, and live in separate parts of the world, not even knowing about the others, yet, why do they all start to write about the same time? This screams they all shared a common origin, and an origin as if yesterday, compared to geologic time. Nobody can tell me, by the evolutionary model, the Chinese so happened to discover writing about the same time as the Egyptians.

What is ironic is that, since that time, some fine scientists have debunked the junk science that yields talk of millions and billions, debunked the fossil record claims, all of that, but it was the history of civilization, not science, that first struck me man hasn't been around that long, really, that history does not jive with evolutionary scientific theory. You would have to have vast time differentials between isolated peoples evolving into civilizations. The notion they're ten of thousands of years evolving as homo sapiens with round eyes, or slanted eyes, white skin, or dark skin, then poof! They all figured out how to write about the same time, appeared as a civilization at about the same time? In truth, history testifies to the power of God, to man created an intelligent being and filling the earth from there, in simply some thousands of years, which, incidentally, the population growth to our day also testifies to.

Job 26:7-14 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing. He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them. He holdeth back the face of his throne, and spreadeth his cloud upon it. He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end. The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof. He divideth the sea with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the proud. By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent. Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?

Almighty God is beyond awesome, in all ways. The Lord has well demonstrated this in the record of His word. By His sheer command, He could, in an instant, vanish this planet or tumble what is a tiny blue marble, to Him, into the void. The Lord Jesus didn't need to plant, tend, harvest and process grapes, to make wine, from water at that. In any case, as people of faith, we shouldn't be this,

2 Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

My God isn't impotent. And you can add to that His power to save, as the Lord promises, securely so, you who think He needs your help to do His pleasure, to accomplish His goals. Many, many simply deny the power of God, which can make one wonder who is it they believe in, in the first place? The way some talk, it's not the God in the Bible, that's for sure.

 

[valiant]

in your view, does the bible talk about a flood such that all the high mountains under the heavens were covered? a worldwide flood?

'all the high mountains were covered' refers to their 'world' (they knew of nothing else). . Everywhere they looked not a mountain was to be seen. We do not know how high the mountains were. It was a massive flood, but not necessarily worldwide as we know it.

what's your take on what mainstream science has to say about a global flood?

it was probably associated with the ice age.

 

[valiant]

something I've always found interesting about the flood account in genesis.

chapter 7 says, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open".

if we want to match the story up with mainstream science, what would those fountains be?

that refers to all the waters round about them. God caused the seas to break in on the land. why do we need to match it with mainstream science which is negative?

 

[valiant]

[video]https://youtu.be/bmjzE9wHBUU[/video]


Theory means assumption and which evolution is an theory not facts.

what has evolution to do with the flood?

When measuring something, they uses a method of measuring the present decaying of material without using the possibility that things were different at time, that atmospheric changes has taking place that can hinder the flow of things and how it decay. The face cloth of Jesus and the shroud of Turin were given two different dates that are centuries apart from each other but proven that the blood stain image has taken place at the same time. The dating method that they uses is built on the assumptions that the majority has agreed upon how old a certain material is and uses that material as an ruler to measure everything else but that ruler might not be accurate.

lol the shroud of Turin invites misinterpretation. But I am not talking about 'dating methods'. History is not based on carbon dating, it is based on historical records which go back well before Abraham.

 

[Dan_473]

How do you interpret Gen 1: 6

The firmanent (plate) that separated the waters from the waters, What was it?

I think it was what we call 'sky'... the waters below the sky are gathered on the next day, and dry land appears. the waters above the sky would be clouds, imo.

what's your view?

 

[Dan_473]

...
What you see of the history of civilization is a written record cropping-up all over the world, among isolated peoples, only some thousands of years BC.
...

I think that fits well with the tower of babel, God confusing the language, and then scattering people all over the earth.

these people then already have a spoken language, and they develop writing as soon as they need to keep track of stuff, like how many sheep or whatever.

so it makes sense that writing would crop up at similar times everywhere.

 

[Dan_473]

'all the high mountains were covered' refers to their 'world' (they knew of nothing else). . Everywhere they looked not a mountain was to be seen. We do not know how high the mountains were. It was a massive flood, but not necessarily worldwide as we know it.



it was probably associated with the ice age.

I can see that. for me, if one wants to go with mainstream science, it makes sense to regard the genesis stories as being told in a mythic format.

for a primitive people to try to tell an epic story, they're going to use a mythic format. so when God says, "Let there be light", it means the whole electro-magnetic spectrum... but they had not word for that, so they said, "Light".


similarly, "All the high mountains that were under the whole sky were covered" means just the mountains in that area.

a question that arises for me when I think in those terms is when to set aside the myth. for example, a talking snake? that sounds like more story told in a mythic format.

 

[Dan_473]

that refers to all the waters round about them. God caused the seas to break in on the land. why do we need to match it with mainstream science which is negative?

how does seas breaking in fit with an ice age?

did noah's ark save his fam from an ice age? maybe... I'm not being silly, I'm interested in how this fits together for you.



I don't understand your sentence

"why do we need to match it with mainstream science which is negative?"

my impression was that you liked to fit mainstream science into the genesis stories. was I wrong?

 

[4enlightment]

something I've always found interesting about the flood account in genesis.

chapter 7 says, "all the fountains of the great deep burst open".

if we want to match the story up with mainstream science, what would those fountains be?

In yet another confirmation of the Bible’s accuracy, scientists have now confirmed what Scripture refers to as “the fountains of the deep.” In the days of Noah and the Ark, these large pools of water beneath the Earth’s crust burst forth onto the surface providing the massive amounts of water needed for the global flood judgment. What has once been a source of skepticism and mockery for those who doubt the Bible, has now been confirmed by secular scientists, again showing that although written over 3,000 years ago, the Bible’s description of the Earth and its natural properties are indeed accurate. http://beginningandend.com/scientists-confirm-biblical-account-of-the-fountains-of-the-deep/

 

[4enlightment]

what has evolution to do with the flood?




lol the shroud of Turin invites misinterpretation. But I am not talking about 'dating methods'. History is not based on carbon dating, it is based on historical records which go back well before Abraham.

The cloth has been dated to around 700 AD by radiocarbon dating.[SUP][2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarium_of_Oviedo

[/SUP]The Shroud of Turin (Turin Shroud), a linen cloth that tradition associates with the crucifixion and burial of Jesus, has undergone numerous scientific tests, the most notable of which is radiocarbon dating, in an attempt to determine the relic's authenticity. In 1988, scientists at three separate laboratories dated samples from the Shroud to a range of AD 1260–1390, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_14_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin



People are claiming that the world has to be over million years old because they believes that the method that we use to measure the age of the earth is the same process that they uses to measure how long man has been here. In the Bible that it says that it was created in six days, and the stars and etc.. was for us to measure the period of a day and the period of a night. And so it was a 12 hour period that this burst of energy that has filled this lifeless void with live atoms that had last until it has receded back into rest mode. These atoms is the life of all living natural beings that give off small amount of light.

Strange! Humans Glow in Visible Light

Scientific Proof The Human Body Emits Light! | Soul Science

If mankind has been on earth over a million years, as the evolutionists tell us, then why do the records of their activity only go back a few thousand years. The evidence agrees with the Bible account, not with the evolutionists. Evolutionary theory is a myth. God created everything; the evidence clearly points to it. Nothing else can explain the mountain of evidence. This is science vs. evolution—a Creation-Evolution Encyclopedia, brought to you by Creation Science Facts.
CONTENT: How Far Back do the Records Go? - 2

Languages - Ancient languages never back beyond c. 3000 B.C., and radiate outward from Mesopotamia Ancient Historical Records - The oldest dates go back to about 3000 B.C.
The Oldest People - They do not go back before c. 3000 B.C., and were located in Mesopotamia Conclusion - Man, whom the evolutionists claim to have come into existence over a million years ago, is said to have "stopped evolving" 100,000 years ago. Why then do we not have at least 100,000 years of civilizations, cities, and human remains?
​

This material is excerpted from the book, AGE OF THE EARTH. (See BOOKSTORE) An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. Of over 4,000 quotations in the books this Encyclopedia is based on, only 164 statements are by creationists.
You will have a better understanding of the following statements by scientists if you will also read the web page, Age of the Earth.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evolution%20Hoax/recorded_history.htm








They has found pyramids all over the world supposedly dating at different times but the writings on all of them were the same writings which shows that they had spoken one language at one time and the original pyramids were built before the flood. But as they were trying to restart what the people before the flood has left off doing, and so God has erased their memories having them to become wanderers that did not know how to communicate with one and another, roaming around in the wilderness in the state of confusion.

 

[Bowman]

People are claiming that the world has to be over million years old because they believes that the method that we use to measure the age of the earth is the same process that they uses to measure how long man has been here.

No.

That is an incorrect assertion on numerous levels...

 

[Tintin]

The flood was referred to as ancient in the Sumerian king lists.

Lol they could not. They did not know about the globe,. They merely said that they were widespread,

Many written BEFORE 2400 BC

an ice age unrecorded in history?

but history can't be changed and that goes back well beyond 6000 years.

The Bible doesn't infer it. YOU infer it.

I know the Flood was referred to as ancient by the Sumerian king lists, but that doesn't mean that they were (again, ancient cultures loved to claim they were more ancient than their neighbours). Not to mention Sumerians were notorious for mixing real world history with mythology, so to them the pre-Flood world was recognised as the ancient past, a time they talked about with reverence but that no-one remembered themselves.

Widespread floods/global. Reading the Flood accounts, they most certainly weren't local floods. There's a common thread running through many of them.

According to who? I said that the secular timeline needs to be adjusted to the biblical timeline. You don't listen very well, do you?

The Ice Age wasn't unrecorded.

Of course, history can't be changed, but it's viewed primarily through an evolutionary philosophical perspective and those false presuppositions lead to false conclusions.

I don't infer it, the Bible infers it.

Take off your crappy evolutionary glasses and put on some Bible specs. You might see somethi

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think it was what we call 'sky'... the waters below the sky are gathered on the next day, and dry land appears. the waters above the sky would be clouds, imo.

what's your view?

The Hebrew translated firmament means a metal plate, or a firm plate. I was reading where some scientist was saying he thought it was the crust, separating the inner waters, from the ocean or visible waters.

The theory is that this plate split open, causing the fountains of the great deep (the waters below the crust) to burst open, causing the flood..

It is an interesting theory, I am still studying it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In yet another confirmation of the Bible’s accuracy, scientists have now confirmed what Scripture refers to as “the fountains of the deep.” In the days of Noah and the Ark, these large pools of water beneath the Earth’s crust burst forth onto the surface providing the massive amounts of water needed for the global flood judgment. What has once been a source of skepticism and mockery for those who doubt the Bible, has now been confirmed by secular scientists, again showing that although written over 3,000 years ago, the Bible’s description of the Earth and its natural properties are indeed accurate. http://beginningandend.com/scientists-confirm-biblical-account-of-the-fountains-of-the-deep/

That water is also called heavy water, The same water found on comets and meteors. And it is far deeper than science says water should be

 

[4enlightment]

That water is also called heavy water, The same water found on comets and meteors. And it is far deeper than science says water should be

It is so funny how can someone in those days had known about the ringwoodite.

Job 38:30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen?