Tithe!

[StandingFirmInChrist]

In all honesty, and with the best of intentions, it sounds like the common denominator is you.

If you have problems wherever you go, and most other folks do not, perhaps you should examine yourself, and your behavior/approach to others. If you go in with a chip on your shoulder, making demands, most folks WILL write you off.

In persecution and martyrdom, the guilty culprit is not the Apostle,... It's the mob.

Religious Institutions in my area don't want me walking through their doors either. Not because I teach heresy, but because I boldly proclaim the Truth where heresy is taught.

Just because YET knows how religious institutions will act towards him, does not mean that YET is the bad guy. Was Stephen the bad guy? Is that why he was stoned? Were the Apostles bad? Is that why they were murdered off one by one? Was John that evil that he had to be boiled in oil?

The fact is, all who live godly and in Christ Jesus will suffer some measure of persecution. Some more than others, because they are more outspoken when they see error being taught from the pulpits of ifence-sitting, lukewarm churches.

 

[hornetguy]

In persecution and martyrdom, the guilty culprit is not the Apostle,... It's the mob.

Religious Institutions in my area don't want me walking through their doors either. Not because I teach heresy, but because I boldly proclaim the Truth where heresy is taught.

Just because YET knows how religious institutions will act towards him, does not mean that YET is the bad guy. Was Stephen the bad guy? Is that why he was stoned? Were the Apostles bad? Is that why they were murdered off one by one? Was John that evil that he had to be boiled in oil?

The fact is, all who live godly and in Christ Jesus will suffer some measure of persecution. Some more than others, because they are more outspoken when they see error being taught from the pulpits of ifence-sitting, lukewarm churches.

I have no problem with proclaiming the truth... but there is a way to do it that will reap rewards, and there is a way that will instantly close peoples' ears to anything you have to say. I suspect that has been the cause of YET's problems.

If our goal is to lovingly bring ourselves and others into a closer walk with Jesus, there is a way to do that.

Getting in someone's face and telling them they are apostate sinners, bound for hell if they don't change their ways is not the way to do it. Jesus only did that one time, and that was to make a point about those that were profiting from "fleecing" the temple worshippers.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

I have no problem with proclaiming the truth... but there is a way to do it that will reap rewards, and there is a way that will instantly close peoples' ears to anything you have to say. I suspect that has been the cause of YET's problems.

If our goal is to lovingly bring ourselves and others into a closer walk with Jesus, there is a way to do that.

Getting in someone's face and telling them they are apostate sinners, bound for hell if they don't change their ways is not the way to do it. Jesus only did that one time, and that was to make a point about those that were profiting from "fleecing" the temple worshippers.

Looks to me that profiting by fleecing worshippers is what YET is speaking out against.

If Jesus warned people that they were on their way to hell except they repenr of their evils, it must be a right thing to do, imo.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Looks to me that profiting by fleecing worshippers is what YET is speaking out against.

If Jesus warned people that they were on their way to hell except they repenr of their evils, it must be a right thing to do, imo.

Yes.

...except that we, here at CC, are not the false preachers who sinned against Yet.
This is what I meant, previously, when I stated he was preaching to the choir.

What is the point in warning people who are not committing these sins (the folks he's addressing in these threads)?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Yes.

...except that we, here at CC, are not the false preachers who sinned against Yet.
This is what I meant, previously, when I stated he was preaching to the choir.

What is the point in warning people who are not committing these sins (the folks he's addressing in these threads)?

Here's the thing, PW,

Posters on CC may, or may not, be fleecing the flock with the monetary tithe requirement lie. However, if said posters are attending religious institutions are teaching the lie, do they not deserve to be warned? Should they not be made to understand that embracing and yielding to the monetary tithe requirement doctrine is sin?

YET's zeal and passion is for people to open their eyes to the lies that they are being fed from the pulpits and to see those people walking in truth. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

O that there would be thousands more with the passion of YET to boldly proclaim truth in spite of persecution!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

YET's zeal and passion is for people to open their eyes to the lies that they are being fed from the pulpits and to see those people walking in truth. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

Thank your for sharing this with me--I was unable to see Yet's passion with my own eyes.

We must be careful of the wolves among the sheep--but we must also be careful not to assume all pastors on salary are wolves.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Thank your for sharing this with me--I was unable to see Yet's passion with my own eyes.

We must be careful of the wolves among the sheep--but we must also be careful not to assume all pastors on salary are wolves.

That's absolutely true, but it's most unfortunate that anyone is on salary. It's not meant to be that way IMO.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

YET is against salaried pastors for good reason,...

The Apostle Paul said they should work with their hands to support themselves and the weak.

I cannot fault YET for agreeing with the Bible.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

YET is against salaried pastors for good reason,...

The Apostle Paul said they should work with their hands to support themselves and the weak.

I cannot fault YET for agreeing with the Bible.

Being salaried is a snare and a stumbling block because it works to turn men into men pleasers instead of GOD pleasers.

For am I now making an appeal to people or [to] God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a slave of Christ. Galatians 1:10​

 

[hornetguy]

It depends on which verse you look at. In some places it indicates paying a preacher is good, in some places Paul said that HE wouldn't take any money for what he did (in SOME churches).

Either way, to say that ANY paid preacher is trying to "fleece the flock" is simply wrong. I've given him several examples that I personally know of, and he refuses to believe me.

I've agreed that any "pastor" (incorrect term, usually, should be preacher) that "runs" a church is going about it all wrong. A church is made up of believers, who, in turn, should be spiritually in subjection to the elders of that church. A preacher is just a member of the body that has the gift of teaching before a crowd. He has nothing to say about how much the members should give, or how the money is used... If he has gone to seminary to be educated, and preaching is his profession, then I have no problem with him being paid, anymore than I would have a problem with someone being paid to do maintenance work at the building, if necessary.

I agree with YET on his assessment of the money-grubbing televangelist types that demand "tithes" or "seed faith" money.
YET's problem is that he believes ALL preachers are that way, and it simply isn't true.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Being salaried is a snare and a stumbling block because it works to turn men into men pleasers instead of GOD pleasers.

For am I now making an appeal to people or [to] God? Or am I seeking to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a slave of Christ. Galatians 1:10​

Yes, and Paul demonstrated that fact in his first epistle to the Church at Corinth when he said he would not exercise the right to support lest the Gospel be hindered.

 

[hornetguy]

Yes, and Paul demonstrated that fact in his first epistle to the Church at Corinth when he said he would not exercise the right to support lest the Gospel be hindered.

Exactly.... Paul said even though they supported other preachers who preached to them, HE wouldn't accept pay, to avoid any quarrels, etc...

So, actually, Paul is giving tacit approval to the churches for paying preachers.... just not HIM.

 

[Yet]

In all honesty, and with the best of intentions, it sounds like the common denominator is you.

If you have problems wherever you go, and most other folks do not, perhaps you should examine yourself, and your behavior/approach to others. If you go in with a chip on your shoulder, making demands, most folks WILL write you off.

You judge me falsely. Not suppose to do that. You can't judge my heart. We walked into churches as worms esteeming others better than ourselves. We were not headstrong? But we were cold shouldered by false leadership. Phil. 2:3

Like I said, the one gut kicked gets accused, not the one doing the kicking. See how that works now? You just did it.

Now here is what God wants. James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is THIS. To take care of the fatherless and the widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Not one word about forcing the 'afflicted' to pay up the extortion money, the tithe.

 

[Yet]

It depends on which verse you look at. In some places it indicates paying a preacher is good, in some places Paul said that HE wouldn't take any money for what he did (in SOME churches).

Either way, to say that ANY paid preacher is trying to "fleece the flock" is simply wrong. I've given him several examples that I personally know of, and he refuses to believe me.

I've agreed that any "pastor" (incorrect term, usually, should be preacher) that "runs" a church is going about it all wrong. A church is made up of believers, who, in turn, should be spiritually in subjection to the elders of that church. A preacher is just a member of the body that has the gift of teaching before a crowd. He has nothing to say about how much the members should give, or how the money is used... If he has gone to seminary to be educated, and preaching is his profession, then I have no problem with him being paid, anymore than I would have a problem with someone being paid to do maintenance work at the building, if necessary.

I agree with YET on his assessment of the money-grubbing televangelist types that demand "tithes" or "seed faith" money.
YET's problem is that he believes ALL preachers are that way, and it simply isn't true.

Apples and oranges again. The itenerent preachers and the local shepherds/elders. The traveling preachers deserve support though they are not to charge themselves. It must be the hearers idea to support. And local bodies are to support them as well. Paul refuses support for the most part lest he be accused of profiting from the gospel.

The local shepherds/elders are to work jobs to support the needy. Acts 20. You know I could understand the resistance to what I teach if I had no scripture to back it up. But that's not the case. And it is frightening how many saints are in total rebellion against God's word.

They want to debate every issue under the sun and then totally dismiss the scriptures on giving and assembly life.

On another thread I walked carefully through 1Cor. 12, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. What was the answer? Total dismissal.

And about my strong presentation. It wasn't always like that. But after being pounded and dismissed over and over and over again, I stepped up my forcefulness. Let me ask you this Hornet. If Jesus spoke with a more kind and gentle style with sensitivity toward the pastors in Matt. 23, I mean He called those pastors snakes, I haven't done that......yet, does Hornet believe those pastors would have repented?

You said that my problem is 'believing that all pastors are that way'. They are wrong for ministering for filthy lucre.

Again I'm not talking preachers. I'm talking pastors that minister for money in the local body.

Hornet, you say that a man can quit his job and then tell everyone God told him to be above them as the single 'pastor' and they need to pay him tithes. Then why does Paul tell the pastors in Acts 20 to work secular jobs?

 

[Yet]

Hornet. Do you know what a traveling preacher is?

 

[AllenW]

On Giving
by: Kahlil Gibran

You give but little when you give of your possessions.
It is when you give of yourself that you truly give.

For what are your possessions but things you keep and guard for fear you may need them tomorrow?
And tomorrow, what shall tomorrow bring to the overprudent dog burying bones in the trackless sand as he follows the pilgrims to the holy city?

And what is fear of need but need itself?
Is not dread of thirst when your well is full, the thirst that is unquenchable?

There are those who give little of the much which they have--and they give it for recognition and their hidden desire makes their gifts unwholesome.

And there are those who have little and give it all.
These are the believers in life and the bounty of life, and their coffer is never empty.

There are those who give with joy, and that joy is their reward.
And there are those who give with pain, and that pain is their baptism.
And there are those who give and know not pain in giving, nor do they seek joy, nor give with mindfulness of virtue;
They give as in yonder valley the myrtle breathes its fragrance into space.
Through the hands of such as these God speaks, and from behind their eyes He smiles upon the earth.

It is well to give when asked, but it is better to give unasked, through understanding;
And to the open-handed the search for one who shall receive is joy greater than giving.

And is there aught you would withhold?
All you have shall some day be given;
Therefore give now, that the season of giving may be yours and not your inheritors'.

You often say, "I would give, but only to the deserving."
The trees in your orchard say not so, nor the flocks in your pasture.
They give that they may live, for to withhold is to perish.

Surely he who is worthy to receive his days and his nights, is worthy of all else from you.
And he who has deserved to drink from the ocean of life deserves to fill his cup from your little stream.
And what desert greater shall there be, than that which lies in the courage and the confidence, nay the charity, of receiving?
And who are you that men should rend their bosom and unveil their pride, that you may see their worth naked and their pride unabashed?

See first that you yourself deserve to be a giver, and an instrument of giving.
For in truth it is life that gives unto life while you, who deem yourself a giver, are but a witness.

And you receivers... and you are all receivers... assume no weight of gratitude, lest you lay a yoke upon yourself and upon him who gives.

Rather rise together with the giver on his gifts as on wings;
For to be overmindful of your debt, is to doubt his generosity who has the freehearted earth for mother, and God for father.

I always have a problem going to a non-Christian source to gain Christian knowledge.
This same Kahlil Gibran had no need for Jesus Christ either.

 

[AllenW]

Tithing amounts to sacrificial giving. Tithing has never been rescinded. It is NEVER a vain commitment. God's promises have never been phased out concerning the tithe!

.

Tithing is part of the Levitical Laws of Moses.
They no longer exist.
Ask any Rabbi.

 

[AllenW]

When you speak like this you prove you do jot understand that everything belongs to God and that what He asks of us is a mere one tenth to go toward the local fellowship. You have a begrudging spirit and join your voice with others of the same spirit, as if it's some sort of sin to trust God with that tenth, that it is wasted money. Indeed, every penny of one's tithe is multiplied to do more than its literal dollar amount.

But you don't know what a tithe is.
You think it's money.
It's not.

 

[AllenW]

Hi,

A. Jesus talked about tithe. It is a bible word in the N.T.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

B. Paul address it. Paul mentioned of the “laying in store” for the the O.T. word storehouse giving in Malachi. Another thing, the early church of Jerusalem is composed mainly of the Jewish people so that they are not new of the teaching of the tithe.
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

C. Not really. Remember, tithe is not actually a giving, it is a returning. More than the tithe is actually giving and that what the Apostles is urging the believers. Tithes goes way back even before the Law of Moses was established. Abraham tithed, so a Christian may tithe just like Abraham did. Be sure to tithe but not tight in giving. God Bless!

You don't really believe anything you've said here, do you?
You've misinterpreted everything you've said.
PM me and I will personally tutor you.

 

[AllenW]

Hi Sir Dan,

Yap, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost Paul wrote to the Corinth believers with the thought of "storehouse giving" that's why he made mention of the word "store". Do you think that because Paul dd not wrote anything about "hell" he therefore did not believe in hell?

The case in in 1 Corinthians 16 has something to do with the collection for the saints. The believers at Corinth were aware that the Apostle was gathering funds for the Jerusalem Church and apparently they had written to inquire how they participate in this collection. As the way I see it, there are two things that come out to mind:
1. In their Tithes. Again, this is implied because of the word "store".
2. In their Offerings. That's the phrase, "As God prospered him". Giving is absolutely a blessing. Give and it shall be given to you. The principle and attitude is to give in order to give.

The only reason why folks don't tithe and give is because they have not yet given themselves to the Lord first. Everything will be fine as you give yourselves first to the Lord in regards to stewardship. Tithing and giving is no longer a burden but a blessing.

I don't be fooled to those against it for I have proved God by it. Maybe their God is not my God of the Bible. God Bless!


He cares,

If you simply told people it was a good idea to give 10 % of your money to God, it would be so much easier to debate.
But your insistence of calling it a tithe, it makes me wonder whoever taught you about the Laws of the Old Testament?