getting dates about a young earth

[posthuman]

Praise Him, sun and moon; praise Him, all you stars of light. Praise Him, O heavens of heavens; and O waters that are above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Jehovah; for He commanded, and they were created. And He established them forever and ever; He gave a decree that they not pass away. (Psalm 148:3-6)

what are these waters that are above the heavens, and could they be what the Spirit of God was hovering over in Genesis 1:2 (rather than the oceans of the earth) ?



thanks for posting this. i do see now that there is better support for the sun & stars to have been formed prior to their mention as being set in place 'to govern' the night & day, and for seasons.

 

[Bowman]

what are these waters that are above the heavens, and could they be what the Spirit of God was hovering over in Genesis 1:2 (rather than the oceans of the earth) ?

thanks for posting this. i do see now that there is better support for the sun & stars to have been formed prior to their mention as being set in place 'to govern' the night & day, and for seasons.

This Psalm passage should correlate to the Second Epoch in Gen 1, as thus...

'Day' Two: Genesis 1.6 – 1.8

And said God, Let be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it (be) dividing between waters (and) the waters. And made God the expanse, and He separated between the waters which (were) under the expanse, and the waters which (were) above the expanse, and it was so. And called God the expanse Heavens; and was the mixing and was the breaking forth time second. (Gen 1.6-8)


God established Earth’s atmosphere and water cycle on Creation 'Day' 2.


ווַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים, יְהִי רָקִיעַ בְּתוֹךְהַמָּיִם, וִיהִי מַבְדִּיל, בֵּין מַיִם לָמָיִם.

1.6 Vayomer Elohim yehi rakia betoch hamayim vihi mavdil bein mayim lamayim.

And said God, Let be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it (be) dividing between waters (and) the waters.


Strong’s #H7549 'rakia' identifies God’s heavenly expanse. The Mosaic account of creation uses this term interchangeably for 'on the face of the expanse of the heavens.' in which birds fly (Genesis 1.20) i.e. the atmosphere, and that farther expanse of sky which God placed “the lights….for signs and seasons” (vv.14, 17, referring apparently to their becoming visible through the cloud cover.)



The former receives greater emphasis, particularly during that period before the second day, when the earth cooled sufficiently to permit surface waters, separated from what must still have been a massive cloud-bank above, by the atmospheric expanse (Gen 1.6-8).



Reference:
TWOT
Harris, Archer, Waltke
Page 862

 

[ukok102nak]

:yawn: there so much waters in this reality . ...
:read:
Deuteronomy: 5. 8. Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the
waters beneath the earth:
:scarf: why is that something like this is forbedden?

:rofl: is there anything that can made in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
that could make the lord god jealous ... ... .

: : as it written
the waters comes first before the creation of first light in the beggining . ...
:read:
Genesis: 1. 1. In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

. ... this verses has something to do with waters
but thats after the creation of man .. . .
:read:
Job: 22. 11. Or darkness, that thou canst not see; and abundance of waters cover thee. 12. Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are! 13. And thou sayest, How doth God know? can he judge through the dark cloud? 14. Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven. 15. Hast thou marked the old way which wicked men have trodden? 16. Which were cut down out of time, whose foundation was overflown with a flood:

2 Samuel: 22. 16. And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.
Job: 11. 16. Because thou shalt forget thy misery, and remember it as waters that pass away: 17. And thine age shall be clearer than the noonday; thou shalt shine forth, thou shalt be as the morning. 18. And thou shalt be secure, because there is hope; yea, thou shalt dig about thee, and thou shalt take thy rest in safety. 19. Also thou shalt lie down, and none shall make thee afraid; yea, many shall make suit unto thee. 20. But the eyes of the wicked shall fail, and they shall not escape, and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost.

2 Samuel: 22. 16. And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Dan_473]

We already went over this...

The term 'newborn' extends back to conception in the womb - which is the cellular and molecular level.

There is absolutely no reason for you to want to believe that Adam was created as an adult (other than your YEC worldview).

You must remember that Gen 1 is a condensed summary of creation. Gen 2 then starts to fill-in the details on what occurred on the most important day, 'day 6'.

'newborn' means recently born, though I suppose one use it in the sense of recently conceived.

so, what does adam look like when the forming is complete?


if adam is formed as a cell that is ready to start taking in nourishment and dividing... that's what I'm thinking is 'already in motion'.

If the cell looks like it was previously an ovum and a sperm when actually it started as a fully-formed cell, to me it's not a stretch to say the sun was made as a ball of fusion, and it looks like billions of years earlier was a loose cloud of hydrogen.

 

[kodiak]

There is absolutely no reason for you to want to believe that Adam was created as an adult (other than your YEC worldview).

A literal reading of Genesis.

 

[Bowman]

'newborn' means recently born, though I suppose one use it in the sense of recently conceived.

so, what does adam look like when the forming is complete?


if adam is formed as a cell that is ready to start taking in nourishment and dividing... that's what I'm thinking is 'already in motion'.

If the cell looks like it was previously an ovum and a sperm when actually it started as a fully-formed cell, to me it's not a stretch to say the sun was made as a ball of fusion, and it looks like billions of years earlier was a loose cloud of hydrogen.

You still want to force the appearance of age into the narrative so that your YEC worldview is more palatable.

The narrative states very plainly that Adam was formed from the ground up...literally, from dust.

We must then take this at face value and state that Adam did NOT burst onto the scene as an adult - rather, as a creation from the building blocks comprising the nutrients contained within the soil.

A process.

Just like the previous five epochs before him, all processes.

 

[Bowman]

This verse exposes the YEC hypocrisy, rather well...

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until your return to the ground. For you have been taken out of it; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Gen 3.19)

So...

How many YEC's think that when Adam died, that he magically disappeared into the earth, the same way that he came from it?!

Any sane person would recognize that our return to this earth is in the SAME fashion as that in which we came from it....a SLOW molecular process.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

This verse exposes the YEC hypocrisy, rather well...

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until your return to the ground. For you have been taken out of it; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Gen 3.19)

So...

How many YEC's think that when Adam died, that he magically disappeared into the earth, the same way that he came from it?!

Any sane person would recognize that our return to this earth is in the SAME fashion as that in which we came from it....a SLOW molecular process.

People who take Genesis literally agree that Adam was formed out of dust and indeed to dust man shall return. Merely that just like the Bible says Adam was formed in the image of God out of the dust on day 6, not year 6 million or whatever they've inflated their old earth/new age mythology to at this point.

Genesis 1:24-31

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[DP]

I'm surprised you don't understand the meaning of context. 'Yom' is only ever questioned in early Genesis, although a plain reading of the Bible shows that the context leads the reader to understand that it's a historical narrative.

I'm referring to 2 Peter 3:8, not Genesis 1.

 

[DP]

People who take Genesis literally agree that Adam was formed out of dust and indeed to dust man shall return. Merely that just like the Bible says Adam was formed in the image of God out of the dust on day 6, not year 6 million or whatever they've inflated their old earth/new age mythology to at this point.

Genesis 1:24-31

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Oh, so anyone who disagrees with the theory of the days of Gen.1 being literal 24 hr. periods are preaching New Age doctrine? That guilt by association statement just doesn't work.

 

[JosephsDreams]

You still want to force the appearance of age into the narrative so that your YEC worldview is more palatable.

The narrative states very plainly that Adam was formed from the ground up...literally, from dust.

We must then take this at face value and state that Adam did NOT burst onto the scene as an adult - rather, as a creation from the building blocks comprising the nutrients contained within the soil.

A process.

Just like the previous five epochs before him, all processes.

So are you saying that it is impossible that God made Adam in a burst rather then a process, or are you stating that it is likely that God made Adam through a process rather then a burst?
If your saying it is impossible that it was a burst, please state why. Because Adam came from the dust of the earth is not convincing reason.
We are made up of earthly particles and forces. Are you saying because of that it could not have been a burst? God could not do that?
Even if you say, sure, God could do a burst, He could do anything, then please state un detail why He would have done a process rather then a burst.
I am not being adverse, I just am curious about why you would say that. The only reason why I can think of is because the bible and our science seem to point that the whole universe was a process, so man was to. But even giving that, how many times have we seen in the bible that just when it seems we have God figured out, we think we have a pattern, He does what we might call the unexpected.

 

[Bowman]

So are you saying that it is impossible that God made Adam in a burst rather then a process, or are you stating that it is likely that God made Adam through a process rather then a burst?
If your saying it is impossible that it was a burst, please state why. Because Adam came from the dust of the earth is not convincing reason.
We are made up of earthly particles and forces. Are you saying because of that it could not have been a burst? God could not do that?
Even if you say, sure, God could do a burst, He could do anything, then please state un detail why He would have done a process rather then a burst.
I am not being adverse, I just am curious about why you would say that. The only reason why I can think of is because the bible and our science seem to point that the whole universe was a process, so man was to. But even giving that, how many times have we seen in the bible that just when it seems we have God figured out, we think we have a pattern, He does what we might call the unexpected.

The Gen 1 narrative is ALL about a sequential process.

1 through 6.

If everything was instant, like you want to force it to be, then the narrative would only have needed to mention ONE.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

Oh, so anyone who disagrees with the theory of the days of Gen.1 being literal 24 hr. periods are preaching New Age doctrine? That guilt by association statement just doesn't work.

No, lol the fact all the OEC doctrines were made by non-Christians fairly recently, 200 or less years ago like old earth mythology, big bang, Darwinism, etc. is what makes it New Age doctrine lol.

 

[DP]

No, lol the fact all the OEC doctrines were made by non-Christians fairly recently, 200 or less years ago like old earth mythology, big bang, Darwinism, etc. is what makes it New Age doctrine lol.

Then Apostle Peter must have lived as recently as 200 years ago...

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
NAS

2 Peter 3:5-7
5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
NIV

Peter was not talking about the time of Noah there.

 

[Dan_473]

You still want to force the appearance of age into the narrative so that your YEC worldview is more palatable.

The narrative states very plainly that Adam was formed from the ground up...literally, from dust.

We must then take this at face value and state that Adam did NOT burst onto the scene as an adult - rather, as a creation from the building blocks comprising the nutrients contained within the soil.

A process.

Just like the previous five epochs before him, all processes.

I'm fine with adam not being formed as an adult.

when God was done forming adam, what did adam look like? a single cell? some scattered atoms? a baby that has gestated for nine months?

I'm assuming adam must have looked like something.

 

[Dan_473]

This verse exposes the YEC hypocrisy, rather well...

By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread until your return to the ground. For you have been taken out of it; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return. (Gen 3.19)

So...

How many YEC's think that when Adam died, that he magically disappeared into the earth, the same way that he came from it?!

Any sane person would recognize that our return to this earth is in the SAME fashion as that in which we came from it....a SLOW molecular process.

after adam dies, the 'decomposers' (I think mostly bacteria and fungi) start breaking down his tissues, his molecules, and turning them into, essentially, dust.

God is doing the opposite, he is composing.

so, assuming that God is taking a molecule from this piece of dust here, another one from there. God is building something. what is it that God is building? a single cell? a 7-pound baby?

 

[Dan_473]

that's kind of what i was getting at with the question about whether the sun was created on day 4 or not -- whether it was or whether it wasn't, a 24-hour earth day doesn't make any sense until the earth-sun orbital system is established; i.e., not until there is a sun rising and setting. before that, there's just no such thing, so a "yom" has a different interpretation IMO. and whther the sun & stars were created prior to yom 4, or only that the orbital system of the sun and the earth was established that day -- it's the same conclusion: that "evening and morning" on days 1-3 doesn't mean sunset and sunrise. because there is no such thing as sunset & sunrise until the sun is 'set in its course in the sky'

so, are you thinking that the sun (and earth?) are created on day 1, but the earth doesn't start orbiting the sun (or spinning on its axis?) until day 4?

 

[Dan_473]

Then said God, Let be light and was light. And saw God the light that good (it was) and separated God between the light and the darkness. And called God the light Day. And the darkness He called Night; and was the mixing and was the breaking forth time one. (Gen 1:3-5)

I see that in the first occurence of 'day' you translate it as 'Day', which I take to mean calendar day, as opposed to 'time' which you use to translate it in "time one".

I believe we already talked about how on time four, all occurences of that word are translated as (calendar) day, except for the last occurence as "time four".

is it fair to say, then, that in your view, the story in gen 1 is correctly translated with the hebrew word for 'day' switching between 'calendar day' and 'time' more than once?

 

[Bowman]

I'm fine with adam not being formed as an adult.

when God was done forming adam, what did adam look like? a single cell? some scattered atoms? a baby that has gestated for nine months?

I'm assuming adam must have looked like something.

Adam would have taken shape as a human and raised as a child....not as superman, like you wish...but, you have been watching too many reality shows which have hard and fast time limits...your time limit is a self-imposed 24hrs.

 

[Bowman]

after adam dies, the 'decomposers' (I think mostly bacteria and fungi) start breaking down his tissues, his molecules, and turning them into, essentially, dust.

God is doing the opposite, he is composing.

so, assuming that God is taking a molecule from this piece of dust here, another one from there. God is building something. what is it that God is building? a single cell? a 7-pound baby?

A human being....of which, all are a process in the making.

Let go of your 24hr love affair...