getting dates about a young earth

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valiant said:
bohu = void, waste, tohu = solitude, emptiness (Isa 24.10), deserted, wasteland. (Koehler Baumgartner lexicon). So the translation 'void and empty' is perfectly good.
,
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OT:8414
tohuw (to'-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:

KJV - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

OT:922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:

KJV - emptiness, void.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Obviously, "void and empty" is not really the best choice of meaning, especially in regards to this usage of "without form, and void":

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it."
KJV
 
OTHER BIBLE EXAMPLES OF HEBREW 'TOHUW' ("without form"):

Isa 49:4
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God.
KJV

That "for nought" is the 'nothingness' idea of Gen.1:2 "without form". It's about something that went into a bad condition.
 
Isa 45:19
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye Me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
KJV

"in vain" = Hebrew tohuw

That idea of "in vain" is about vanity, a condition or state like false pride. It's about something that already exists but goes into a bad condition, into vanity.
 
Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV

There Hebrew 'tohuw' is translated to "in vain" again. God said there He did NOT... create the earth in that state of vanity.
 
Isa 44:9
9 They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
KJV

Once again, Hebrew 'tohuw' used in the sense of an object in a state of vanity or adverbial nothingness, this time an abomination idol.
 
Isa 41:29
29 Behold, they are all vanity; their works are nothing: their molten images are wind and confusion.
KJV

Here's Hebrew 'tohuw' translated to "and confusion", showing something in a state of vanity or worthlessness. Confusion is especially appropriate for Gen.1:2 with the state of the earth with flood waters overspread upon it.
 
(( in re: why the Jewish day begins with sundown rather than sunrise ))

valiant said:
Their choice. Nothing to do with Gen 1,,
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it actually has everything to do with Genesis 1.
if you believe what the Jews say about it themselves..
quoting from chabad.org :


"And it was evening and it was morning, one day" (Genesis 1:5).
​

​
Jewish Calendar Date
When G‑d created time, He first created night and then day.
Therefore, a Jewish calendar date begins with the night beforehand.
​




valiant said:
darkness and evening are two different things
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God called the light "day,"
and the darkness he called "night."
And there was evening, and there was morning -- the first day.
(Genesis 1:5 NIV)
​

these are three different words - darkness, night, and evening -- how are they different? how are they the same?
 
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posthuman said:

i've got an opinion about how creation and the observed universe jive, but i'm open to it being wrong -- i've always said, just as God posed the question to Job -- i wasn't there when He formed the worlds.

i think Dan has a point - that the two pieces of information that earth was void, and the Spirit of God was hovering over 'the face of the waters' doesn't necessarily indicate that everything we're reading in Genesis is from the vantage point of the surface of the earth. a "void and formless earth" doesn't even have a "surface" since it's "formless" -- topologically speaking. but maybe everything i know about topology, geometry and math in general is wrong too :)

hey, maybe i just asked some good questions
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There are two vantage points in Gen 1.

From the cosmos in Gen 1.1...then the vantage point shifts to the surface of the water covered earth in Gen 1.2 - from which, the subsequent sequence is to be viewed from.

These are the only two vantage points in Gen 1.
 
Dan_473 said:
if posthuman is an oec, that would be great!

I've found his thinking to be solid, and his ideas presented politely.

my mind has already changed during the course of this thread, and I want to be open to new information.
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Great to hear!

As a physicist, he will be able to detail to you why the earth is billions of years old, and the Universe is even older...
 
valiant said:
the evening and the morning is a poetic description signifying end and beginning of the day, 'there was an end and a beginning of the first period of light,

The day is defined as 'God called the light day', a period of light with beginning and ending,

Jesus defined it as 'there are twelve hours in the day'.
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a period of light - from the sun - that has a beginning and ending. this leads me to believe that 'day' in "God called the light day" is the 12 hour daylight or calendar day, something like that.
 
posthuman said:
(( in re: why the Jewish day begins with sundown rather than sunrise ))



it actually has everything to do with Genesis 1.
if you believe what the Jews say about it themselves..
quoting from chabad.org :


"And it was evening and it was morning, one day" (Genesis 1:5).
​

​
Jewish Calendar Date
When G‑d created time, He first created night and then day.
Therefore, a Jewish calendar date begins with the night beforehand.
​
Click to expand...

an interesting point... darkness is there first.
 
posthuman said:
that's an interesting question to me, because it looks like Sol (the sun) wasn't hung in the sky until the 4th day?
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that seems to me the most natural reading. but, it turns out, some say the sun is created or made earlier.
 
Dan 473.....GIVE it up...what we speculate and deduct while living on this earth concerning what days and nights are, especially back in Creation...Will be answered when we are clothed in a heavenly body, with JESUS to have near us in eternity. We will find all answers to all questions THEN...and only THEN......to surmise, to wonder and try to persuade others in our direction, amounts to NOTHING here in the present. We will be leaving this earth...this present earth, although completely changed by a FLOOD, will next be destroyed by FIRE...a NEW Heaven & a New Earth awaits our future.....as the New Jerusalem, comes down. Tme actually means NOTHING to GOD anyway...and we are filled with GOD...a different perspective takes place. Our TIME here on earth is limited, and we have much preparation for Jesus' returning. I think that is why I fuss so much about wasted forums and posts here, because so many of them have NO great spiritual importance. Certain threads and topics only reflect shallow mindedness....Who cares to 'SPEAK your MIND", or have another Heavenly Recipe", or Who is winning the Presidential Race, and such. I do enjoy the Scriptural topics, and witnessing and testimonies given because they encourage and can bring people closer to CHRIST. Silly me!
 
Bowman said:
Great to hear!

As a physicist, he will be able to detail to you why the earth is billions of years old, and the Universe is even older...
Click to expand...

I always want to be open to new information.
also, I consider it a real possibility that the earth was created "already in motion", such that mainstream science rightly dates it to billions of years old.
 
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