getting dates about a young earth

[DP]

Well, wouldn't it be at the time God placed the curses on Satan, Adam and Eve as a direct consequence from Adam's first sin?

Well, in Gen.3:17 God did tell Adam that the ground would be cursed for his sake, but that doesn't fit the description of the state of vanity and bondage to corruption of the earth that Paul was speaking of in Romans 8.

This Scripture does speak of a time when God shook the earth, and placed it in bondage:

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.


24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.


25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.


26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.


27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.


28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

 

[Dan_473]

Adam only had to name the land animals, not insects and and sea creatures. And remember that there were far fewer animals around at the beginning of creation. Certainly not millions of species. Here's what the Bible says in Genesis 2:18-20):

Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” [SUP]19 [/SUP]Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. [SUP]20 [/SUP]The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field.

All livestock = domesticated animals
Birds of the heavens = birds that fly
Every beast of the field = all other animal kinds - wild animal kinds eg. other mammals, reptiles etc.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense.

looking at that passage again, it looks like God is bringing the animals to adam (again reducing time), with the intention of finding a helper for him.

so maybe the 'at last' means 'I've looked at all the other possibilities'.

 

[Dan_473]

If you are a YEC, then you most certainly do...

well, ok... then I must not be a yec.

 

[Dan_473]

The LXX was translated from Hebrew.

Thus, it is most beneficial to study the original, obviously.

if the lxx is an inspired translation (as some christians believe),

and if the masoretic is not an inspired textual tradition,

then the greek of the lxx is the original language of the inspired version of the old testament.

 

[Dan_473]

I don't know if the days/epoch are the same length. I don't see the phrase "evening and morning" as a time stamp, but rather a closer (God did not work again until the next day/epoch). Like when we work a day, we often say "another day another dollar", in saying this, we don't mean we worked the whole 24 hour day.

here's something that's interesting to me, then.

if we use the general scientific theories available, the first epoch, or at least the first two, have to total about 9 or 10 billions years.

the sixth epoch would be only a few hundred million years, I think.

so the days vary wildly in length (possibly with a decending pattern).

to me, this creates a problem when moses teaches the israelites about the sabbath (ex 20).

because what moses is then saying is that God worked six time periods of varying length, so humans are to work six periods of varying length.

so in the end it becomes Work some, Rest some.

 

[Dan_473]

I think the 7 epochs were pattern for our 7-24 hour weak period. Often the Hebrew writers didn't understand what the wrote, especially the prophecies.

For example: Generally I think the Israelites had disdain for the gentiles and other nations. What do you think King David and his Israelite brothers thought after King David wrote Psalm 2:8

excellent point.

(I'm not sure david wrote this, but going with that idea.)

I think david and his brothers probably thought david would defeat all the nations in the surrounding area... if pressed maybe that he would conquer any nation he came in contact with, that is, all nations.


or they may have thought more along messianic lines, since the Anointed seems to have some divine attributes; that this Anointed one would defeat every nation there was.

and actually, this would be true, since Christ/Anointed will conquer every nation there is.

 

[valiant]

if the lxx is an inspired translation (as some christians believe),

and if the masoretic is not an inspired textual tradition,

then the greek of the lxx is the original language of the inspired version of the old testament.

this is total nonsense, The lxx text differs widely from the Hebrew text in many books. It is not just a translation. It is an expansion. And its source is unknown. Christians quoted from a late text just as we do

 

[Dan_473]

I think the 7 epochs were pattern for our 7-24 hour weak period. Often the Hebrew writers didn't understand what the wrote, especially the prophecies.

For example: Generally I think the Israelites had disdain for the gentiles and other nations. What do you think King David and his Israelite brothers thought after King David wrote Psalm 2:8

possibly a related issue... if the writer used 'day', and is thinking calendar day, but God meant 'epoch',

then again a situation where God veiled the truth from someone.

 

[Bowman]

if the lxx is an inspired translation (as some christians believe),

and if the masoretic is not an inspired textual tradition,

then the greek of the lxx is the original language of the inspired version of the old testament.

Translations are translations...they are not inspired....nor is the LXX...nor is the KJV.

 

[Dan_473]

What it's a translation error? What the english translation read epoch 1, 2, 3, etc. etc. Surely you don't deny that Yom can mean "epoch."

very possible.

when God separates the light from dark, and calls the light 'day', I think english 'day' has to be used there... compared to calling the light 'epoch'.

again on the fourth period, the sun rules the day... sun rules the epoch, doesn't sound right to me.


so yes, a translator could flip back and forth.
to me, I agree with the majority of translators who use 'day' throughout the passage.

 

[Dan_473]

Are you saying that God curse Satan, woman and man as a result from Adam's sin, but not creation? If so, then when do you think creation was cursed?

interesting question, is creation cursed?

the snake is cursed, the ground is cursed.
prophecies are given about adam and eve.

the ground curse seems to be removed after the flood.

 

[Dan_473]

this is total nonsense, The lxx text differs widely from the Hebrew text in many books. It is not just a translation. It is an expansion. And its source is unknown. Christians quoted from a late text just as we do

sure, if you're saying neither lxx nor masoretic is inspired.

if both are late texts, then two questions

which is more reliable?

if much of the jewish world of the time and the early church was steeped in the lxx (it was the kjv of its day, imo), which is of more benefit to study?

(also, who's to say the masoretic has the right list of books, and not the lxx?)

 

[Dan_473]

Translations are translations...they are not inspired....nor is the LXX...nor is the KJV.

is the masoretic an inspired text?

how do you know no translations are inspired?

 

[Bookends]

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense.

looking at that passage again, it looks like God is bringing the animals to adam (again reducing time), with the intention of finding a helper for him.

so maybe the 'at last' means 'I've looked at all the other possibilities'.

yes, its possible, after Adam saw all the animals with a mate and himself without one. However, IMO, I believe Adam had to name all the species of birds and land beast, an eagle is not an ostrich nor did an eagle come an ostrich. Also some species might have had derived from the same kind species (microevolution I think its called). A giraffe, elephant, rhino, alligator, hippo, buffalo, etc. etc . are all separate kinds and I don't came from the same gene pool.

It's still a lot of naming to do, and God told Adam to name them. Did Adam know right off the bat what to call them, or did he have to observe them? Did Adam have anything else to do besides naming them that day is another thing to consider. There are a lot of unanswered questions that simple can't be answered by scripture.

 

[valiant]

The MT was probably the texts taken from the Temple. We know how carefully they were preserved. Jesus only acknowledged the books preserved in the MT (He may well only have known them).

The Jews of the time used pre-MT. The LXX varied widely. It was the product of typical Egyptian 'freedom', often a loose paraphrase. The Greek Christians use it for want of something better,
.

 

[Bowman]

is the masoretic an inspired text?

how do you know no translations are inspired?

The MT is a recension.

This means that the Jews altered it from the original.

In particular, the Unitarian Jews attempted to 'undo' the numerous plurals that were present in the original Hebrew, in an attempt to diminish the fact that Yahweh is Triune.

They failed in this attempt, as there are simply too many plurals which exist in the Hebrew.

Since the LXX has older extant manuscripts than that of the MT, the best solution to the 'problem' is to consult both of them for insight into the original 'inspired' scriptures...

 

[valiant]

morning and evening.

And God blessed the 7th day. because he rested on the seventh day.

Next!

a 24 hour day IS NOT a morning and evening. Use you common sense. And MY God certainly didn't need to rest. You just make it what you want.

 

[49]

a 24 hour day IS NOT a morning and evening. Use you common sense. And MY God certainly didn't need to rest. You just make it what you want.

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. Genesis 2: 2 and 3.

 

[valiant]

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. Genesis 2: 2 and 3.

LOL that is TRANSLATION. And it is wrong translation. God ceased work. He did not rest.


Or is your God fatigable?


I repeat. The God I serve does not need to rest,

 

[49]

Don't know much about that (translations); on another note, isn't God good?