Tithe!

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Standingfirm What is your beef. I have readd back through the post and why do you stand out against the tithe as you do. You know as well as I do that work of God depends on the tithe of the people it has been so since old times. Even the work of the OT temple depended on the tithe. The Levites received no inheritance their inheritance was the work of God through the Tabernacle and ultimately through the Temple. Now, the preacher preaches the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Which is a better Covenant than that of Old. Should we shun them. It does not all go to the preacher but to the means that He should preach. If you enjoy and are indeed fed the word by your preacher-then you should give the tithe. He does not feed you with the bread of men but rather the food of the Spirit. Man shall not live by bread alone.

The work of God does not depend on the tithe! If the work of God was dependant on the tithe, the tithe would have been listed as "a necessary thing" in Acts 15:19-20,28-29. The Apostle Paul would have said that the work of God was dependent on the tithe in his fourteen epistles. Yet, no such admonition can be found anywhere in God's Holy Word.

The Word of God affirms that the tithe was given to the Levites because they had no inheritance amongst the children of Israel. Yet, the Word of God also reveals that the tithe was NEVER given to the New Covenant Church.

 

[RobbyEarl]

The work of God does not depend on the tithe! If the work of God was dependant on the tithe, the tithe would have been listed as "a necessary thing" in Acts 15:19-20,28-29. The Apostle Paul would have said that the work of God was dependent on the tithe in his fourteen epistles. Yet, no such admonition can be found anywhere in God's Holy Word.

The Word of God affirms that the tithe was given to the Levites because they had no inheritance amongst the children of Israel. Yet, the Word of God also reveals that the tithe was NEVER given to the New Covenant Church.

Then you tell me how the man of God can study and research the scriptures as he should if he has to clean pipes and pump septic tanks for a living? How can He lay out before God and pray on your behalf if He is digging Ditches? Who pays the light bill? Who pays for the padded pews?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Since there is no Scripture that states, or even implies that God tests our hearts through a monetary tithe, we can only conclude that the so-called "testing" is another invention fabricated by the deceitful teacher of the monetary tithe requirement lie.

Even a church requiring members to tithe is will be called greater than you in the kingdom of heaven if they also obey Christ. It so happens that righteousness is by faith even as Abraham was accounted, and was accounted for those obeying God's commandments regardless of which covenant they were of. So it was that God greatly blessed the keeping of his Law too. In the keeping of it a person should be brought to a personal relationship with the Lord, exceeding the letter of the Law. Exceeding what the Pharisees and scribes did in those days, the Pharisees existing long after Moses gave the Law, was what Jesus demanded and still does (Mt 5:20). Again, you too are ignoring a clear commandment in 1 Cor 9:13-14, which made support of the modern priesthood no less than what God required of old. The tithe is very basic, a steady flow of blessing at whatever frequency is needed by them.

You two opposing the Word of God and teaching others to do so are basing your argument on a different economic provision God ordained. The first is in that scripture above, the second concerns "free will" offerings for the aid of fellow Christians dispossessed by persecution, famine, etc, giving whatever you want when you want, saving up if you must over time in 2 Cor 9. While making up a special offering to be sent to the needy (specifically in Jerusalem in that instance), the local ministers will live "of" the gospel no less than God's priests of old. Notice in Mat 5:so Jesus didn't mention the Priests and regular Levites doing the heavy lifting.

So far I have to assume you wouldn't even consider an offering at all if it isn't taken up for Christians suffering in the middle east. Like the scribes and Pharisees, the "letter" is exceeding the spirit. Repent.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Then you tell me how the man of God can study and research the scriptures as he should if he has to clean pipes and pump septic tanks for a living? How can He lay out before God and pray on your behalf if He is digging Ditches? Who pays the light bill? Who pays for the padded pews?

Brother, you are about to know the feeling of butting head against a stony wall. Write for the benefit of the world, not a few skeptics, because billions of people are searching for what they are supposed to be doing. Say on.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Then you tell me how the man of God can study and research the scriptures as he should if he has to clean pipes and pump septic tanks for a living? How can He lay out before God and pray on your behalf if He is digging Ditches? Who pays the light bill? Who pays for the padded pews?

How did Paul ply a tent-making trade, yet find time to study and preach the Gospel? He received gifts from other churches when needed, but for the most part, he supported himself through his tent-making.

Any outside support or gifts he received were not tithes. He, being a Benjamite, was uneligible to receive tithes. They belonged to the Levites. Even in the last epistle he wrote, Hebrews 7:5-9, he stated that the tithe belonged to the sons of Levi and were still according to the Law. In other words, they were still agricultural.

Every pastor I have ever had has had time to study, pray, visit, etc., and hold a secular job at the same time.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Brother, you are about to know the feeling of butting head against a stony wall. Write for the benefit of the world, not a few skeptics, because billions of people are searching for what they are supposed to be doing. Say on.

I understand Satan has fought the tithe since the OT and mant do not understand. Bring the tithe that there may be food in my House. The Bread of life is in His house and the carnal man cannot understand.

 

[RobbyEarl]

StandingFirm and I glad you are you ask me for scripture that shows that we should give our tithes. Show me scripture where we should not.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

If you can't trust God with your money the you can't trust God with your heart. For where your treasure is there shall bve uour heart also these are the words of Jesus. Why did Jesus watch the tithe box? Why did He say that this women who put two pennies in the box was more blessed than the rich?

Why did Jesus watch the tithe box? Sure seems like tithing proponents read "10%" or "tithe" into any passage that deals with money and giving!

Look back at Malachi 3:8, part of a favorite passage for tithing-proponents. Notice it mentions tithes and OFFERINGS.

In regards to the widow's mites, Jesus was speaking and it's pre-calvary. Therefore, O.T. tithing rules were still in place.

Bibles with text notes and section headers will reveal that the woman was giving an OFFERING, not a tithe(10%). Some versions show "offering" or "gifts" right in the text. They do not show "tithe", though.

If that's not convincing, take note that she gave ALL SHE HAD. That, then, is not 10%, but 100%. She didn't put it in a "tithe box", either. It was a box for offerings.

Why did He say that this women who put two pennies in the box was more blessed than the rich? Because she had given more sacrificially than the rich people. She gave ALL. Side note: Tithing opponents don't object to the concept of giving offerings.

From this passage I get nothing about tithing. I could actually more easily see it asserted that we should give 100% of our income. I could also go back to Abram's victory in war and recount how he gave 10% of war spoilage to Melchizedek and the rest to the King Sodom, meaning 100% was given(albeit NOT a salary/wage/income).




Here are some T/F statements for tithing supporters:

1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Even a church requiring members to tithe is will be called greater than you in the kingdom of heaven if they also obey Christ. It so happens that righteousness is by faith even as Abraham was accounted, and was accounted for those obeying God's commandments regardless of which covenant they were of. So it was that God greatly blessed the keeping of his Law too. In the keeping of it a person should be brought to a personal relationship with the Lord, exceeding the letter of the Law. Exceeding what the Pharisees and scribes did in those days, the Pharisees existing long after Moses gave the Law, was what Jesus demanded and still does (Mt 5:20). Again, you too are ignoring a clear commandment in 1 Cor 9:13-14, which made support of the modern priesthood no less than what God required of old. The tithe is very basic, a steady flow of blessing at whatever frequency is needed by them.

You two opposing the Word of God and teaching others to do so are basing your argument on a different economic provision God ordained. The first is in that scripture above, the second concerns "free will" offerings for the aid of fellow Christians dispossessed by persecution, famine, etc, giving whatever you want when you want, saving up if you must over time in 2 Cor 9. While making up a special offering to be sent to the needy (specifically in Jerusalem in that instance), the local ministers will live "of" the gospel no less than God's priests of old. Notice in Mat 5:so Jesus didn't mention the Priests and regular Levites doing the heavy lifting.

So far I have to assume you wouldn't even consider an offering at all if it isn't taken up for Christians suffering in the middle east. Like the scribes and Pharisees, the "letter" is exceeding the spirit. Repent.

If Jesus is not a liar, (and I know He isn't) and if He is the same yesterday today and for ever, (He is) then He still sees the teaching of the commandments of men as a preventative of Him accepting said teachers worship.

Since the monetary tithe commandment is not found anywhere in the pages of God's Holy Word, the churches that teach and promote said doctrine worship in vain.

Neither Yet, nor myself, oppose the Word of God. We have presented Scripture that fully supports what we teach and preach. You, on the other hand, have not.

Your assumption would be wrong. Should God lay it on my heart to help anyone in the world, I would gladly help them.

if anyone in this conversation needs to repent, it is you, not I.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Why did Jesus watch the tithe box? Sure seems like tithing proponents read "10%" or "tithe" into any passage that deals with money and giving!

Look back at Malachi 3:8, part of a favorite passage for tithing-proponents. Notice it mentions tithes and OFFERINGS.

In regards to the widow's mites, Jesus was speaking and it's pre-calvary. Therefore, O.T. tithing rules were still in place.

Bibles with text notes and section headers will reveal that the woman was giving an OFFERING, not a tithe(10%). Some versions show "offering" or "gifts" right in the text. They do not show "tithe", though.

If that's not convincing, take note that she gave ALL SHE HAD. That, then, is not 10%, but 100%. She didn't put it in a "tithe box", either. It was a box for offerings.

Why did He say that this women who put two pennies in the box was more blessed than the rich? Because she had given more sacrificially than the rich people. She gave ALL. Side note: Tithing opponents don't object to the concept of giving offerings.

From this passage I get nothing about tithing. I could actually more easily see it asserted that we should give 100% of our income. I could also go back to Abram's victory in war and recount how he gave 10% of war spoilage to Melchizedek and the rest to the King Sodom, meaning 100% was given(albeit NOT a salary/wage/income).




Here are some T/F statements for tithing supporters:

1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

You don't want to give the God of your salvation ten percent? I thank God for every dime I make. Without Him I'd be broke. I thank God for my education, I thank God for my job opportunities. I thank God that I have a church that I can go to and worship Him with my brothers and sisters. I thank God for the people that paid for it.

 

[RobbyEarl]

IT is not a command but a request

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

StandingFirm and I glad you are you ask me for scripture that shows that we should give our tithes. Show me scripture where we should not.

Gladly,... Matthew 23:23; Romans 7:1-4; Galatians 3:10

Jesus said tithing is a matter of the Law.
The one married to Christ, yet going to the House of the Law, is likened to an adulterer.
If you are going to place yourself under the Law, yet fail to keep all of the Law, you are cursed.

I'd say that is good enough reason not to tithe.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

IT is not a command but a request

You still cannot produce even one Scripture that requests, commands, or instructs me (or anyone else for that matter) to give ten percent of my (or their) monetary income to the local religious organization dba a church.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Gladly,... Matthew 23:23; Romans 7:1-4; Galatians 3:10

Jesus said tithing is a matter of the Law.
The one married to Christ, yet going to the House of the Law, is likened to an adulterer.
If you are going to place yourself under the Law, yet fail to keep all of the Law, you are cursed.

Romans 7 1=4 has nothing to do with tithes as you can read for yoursel



I'd say that is good enough reason not to tithe.

Matthew 23:23 refers to the Pharisees paying tithes under pretense thinking that that will save save them ou give them righteousness.
23 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. These ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.


Again Galations 3 has nothing to do with tithes both are speaking with keeping the law as righteousness the tithe has nothing to do with righteousness. The only righteouseness we have is our faith in the work of the cross and has nothing to do with the tithe.

If we have Christ in our hearts then the Spirit will borne in us good works and giving our tithes is one of them

As every man purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly or out of compulsion; for God loveth the cheerful ​giver.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Matthew 23:23 refers to the Pharisees paying tithes under pretense thinking that that will save save them ou give them righteousness.
23 “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: judgment, mercy, and faith. These ought ye to have done and not to leave the other undone.


Again Galations 3 has nothing to do with tithes both are speaking with keeping the law as righteousness the tithe has nothing to do with righteousness. The only righteouseness we have is our faith in the work of the cross and has nothing to do with the tithe.

If we have Christ in our hearts then the Spirit will borne in us good works and giving our tithes is one of them

As every man purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly or out of compulsion; for God loveth the cheerful ​giver.

"As man purposeth in his heart, so let him give;..."

That destroys your whole argument. Man is to decide what he is to give. Not a dictated ten percent.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Hebrews
But Melchizedek, whose descent is not counted from them, received tithes from Abraham and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And beyond all contradiction, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 And here men who die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And, as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes through Abraham,
10 for he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met Abraham.
11 If therefore perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For He of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And this is yet far more evident when there ariseth another priest according to the similitude of Melchizedek,
16 who is made not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
17 For He testifieth: “Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”

So whom do we give our tithe?

 

[RobbyEarl]

"As man purposeth in his heart, so let him give;..."

That destroys your whole argument. Man is to decide what he is to give. Not a dictated ten percent.

f you don't want to you don;t have to it is not a requirement of salvation. But God loves a cheerful giver. It is not a command. But I will put my laws in your heart and in your mind saith the Lord.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

But Melchizedek, whose descent is not counted from them, received tithes from Abraham and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And beyond all contradiction, the lesser is blessed by the greater.
8 And here men who die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And, as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes through Abraham,
10 for he was yet in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met Abraham.
11 If therefore perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For He of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And this is yet far more evident when there ariseth another priest according to the similitude of Melchizedek,
16 who is made not according to the law of a carnal commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
17 For He testifieth: “Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.”

So whom do we give our tithe?

verse 5 answers that question.

The "men that die" in verse 8 are the "sons of Levi" in verse 5. They have a command to take tithes of the people.

The "tithes received" in verse 8 are the "tithes taken" in verse 5.

And what are the "tithes received" in verse 8? They are the tithes "according to the Law" in verse 5.

And what are the "tithes according to the Law"? Both Leviticus 27:30-33 & Deuteronomy 14:22-29, reveal that they are agricultural tithes,... not monetary.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Standingfirm God loves you and on that when we stand before God and He hands out the rewards. I love you and God loves you and will not let money stand in the way. You do yours and I will do mine. God bless you.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

f you don't want to you don;t have to it is not a requirement of salvation. But God loves a cheerful giver. It is not a command. But I will put my laws in your heart and in your mind saith the Lord.

"I will put My Laws in your heart and in your mind saith the Lord."

The Lord's Law says His tithe was agricultural, not monetary. Leviticus 27:30-33

The Lord said His tithe is to go to the Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Canaan. Deuteronomy 6:1-3; 12:1,10-11; 14:22-29.

hmmmmm. God said that He would put His Laws in the hearts of His people. He said His tithe was to consist of a specific item for a specific people in a specific location. Yet, you argue for a different tithe than the Law commanded to a different people than the Law commanded in a different location than the Law commanded.

It appears that you have man's law written in your heart and mind, and not God's. LoL