Tithe!

[Dino246]

Ask a farmer how many head of cattle does He have. He reply "that like asking me how much money I have in the bank". Who eats for free?

If you don't work you do not eat

Bring the tithe that shall be food in My House. Malachi

Food for who? Those that did the work in the temple

As for your local church, Who pays the light bill? who pays the property Tax? Who pays the man that gives you the bread of life?

Give the tithe so that there may be Food in My house.

If the Levites and Priest had to work in other fields to feed their families then the House of God would be neglected.

Hi RobbyEarl,
It looks to me like you are confusing "tithing" with "giving". The two are not the same thing. Tithing is a requirement under the Mosaic Law, given to the Israelites and Levites. Giving under the New Testament guidelines is not tithing. Romans, Galatians and Hebrews make it clear that Gentile believers, and Jews who believe in Jesus for salvation, are not under the Mosaic Law. Therefore, we are not required to 'tithe'. If you want to address Christian giving, or lack of it, please specify 'giving' rather than confusing the issue by using or implying the term 'tithing'.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Hi RobbyEarl,
It looks to me like you are confusing "tithing" with "giving". The two are not the same thing. Tithing is a requirement under the Mosaic Law, given to the Israelites and Levites. Giving under the New Testament guidelines is not tithing. Romans, Galatians and Hebrews make it clear that Gentile believers, and Jews who believe in Jesus for salvation, are not under the Mosaic Law. Therefore, we are not required to 'tithe'. If you want to address Christian giving, or lack of it, please specify 'giving' rather than confusing the issue by using or implying the term 'tithing'.

That's also on that T/F list that pro-tithers won't respond to...

3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Voice #1: This is the Operator. How may I direct your call?
Voice #2: Yes Operator, I am Gaius, of the New Covenant Assembly at Ephesus. Can you connect me to The Abrahamic Tithe, please?
Voice #1: I’m sorry Sir, that line has been disconnected.
Voice #2: Disconnected?? It can’t be! Someone told me just this morning that I needed to get in touch with Abrahamic Tithe.
Voice #1: I truly am sorry Sir, but Abrahamic Tithe permanently went out of business when Mosaic Law Office opened its doors.
Voice #2: Well, can you patch me through to Mosaic Law Office then? I have to get some answers.
Voice #1: Again Sir, I am truly sorry. The Mosaic Law office number is also defunct. The management were not able to abide by the law of the land, and they were forced to shut down operations years ago by a third party.
Voice #2: Don’t tell me, the third party is no longer in business! Is there anybody I can speak to?
Voice #1: Oh, no Sir! He is still very much in business. His name is Jesus Christ. I cannot connect you though. You will have to find Him in the Directory, the Holy Bible. It will give you instructions on how to reach Him anytime, day or night. If you do not have the Directory, we can send you one free of charge. But, I am afraid you will find He runs things much differently than Abrahamic Tithe and Mosaic Law Office did.

[video=youtube;lmjHscNIsWI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmjHscNIsWI[/video]

 

[roaringkitten]

That's also on that T/F list that pro-tithers won't respond to...

3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.

A good verse proving these 3 being different and not synonymous:

"And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage." Neh 10:37

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

A good verse proving these 3 being different and not synonymous:

"And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of our God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage." Neh 10:37

3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.

Don't be revealing all the answers to the T/F statements!

RobbyEarl indicated that "most are true" in regards to the eight T/F statements. Not sure which are in the minority "false" from that. Number 6 should be a give-away!

Tithe in Hebrew means the tenth. As for you T/F questions most are true. However, have read about the little boy that gave the fish and bread and how it feed 5,000 men not counting women and children. God will bless the tithe. Guess who took home the 12 baskets of leftovers?

1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

 

[Chuckt]

Maybe this IS rocket Science. The word is respect, respect. Did you hear me .....respect?

So tell us all how that little assembly is going to pay those ten that 'teach well'? 10,000 dollars a week in salaries. We'll talk the extra perks later.

I don't go to one of those churches and I've been in churches that have published a budget and salaries.

Please name the pastor(s) that are paid $10,000 a week in salaries.

I know one church that has 11 pastors or more so it is possible before taxes and with healthcare, they pay over $10,000 a week in salaries but they also have over 12,000 people going to their church so that would make about 1,200 people per pastor and if you want to talk to the head pastor, you have to wait more than six months or more. But they are also very busy because their church is probably open every day of the week with different things going on and when katrina happened, they sent a tractor trailer down to New Orleans full of supplies and they also sent a feeding truck that could feed first responders and the national guard because the truck probably has the ability to feed 1,000 people an hour but don't hold me to the last number. They have a radio ministry, counsellors, and a Christian school on top of that.

 

[Yet]

You are the one that is saying that the pastors in a congregation that teach well deserve a double salary. I laid out the scenario. How does the other ten congregants pay for it. And what about all the inevitable in fighting I mentioned? You are not answering the questions? Why not?

 

[roaringkitten]

pssst....Robby, for the T/F test, look at Test_F's signature for one of the answers....he's given you a freebie.

 

[Chuckt]

You are the one that is saying that the pastors in a congregation that teach well deserve a double salary. I laid out the scenario. How does the other ten congregants pay for it. And what about all the inevitable in fighting I mentioned? You are not answering the questions? Why not?

Actually, in a large church, they get paid less per person because there are so many people.
Who said anything about infighting?
You haven't been answering my questions very well lately.

 

[Yet]

Actually, in a large church, they get paid less per person because there are so many people.
Who said anything about infighting?
You haven't been answering my questions very well lately.

You are evading the question.
Now what question didn't I answer you. No fussing, just discussing. Smile

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Justified by Law? Or Condemned?
by Ronald W. Robey

How many, while discussing tithes with a pro-tithing proponent, have heard the other party say, "We are not under the Law, but under Grace. However,Jesus Himself said it should be done. So, we should pay our tithe."

While they admit that we are not under the Law, they are placing themselves under the Law by saying "We should pay our tithe."

In the same verse where Jesus said that tithing should be done, (Matthew 23:23) Jesus also said that tithing is "a matter of the Law." One cannot employ a matter of the Law without being subject to the Law.

If one is subject to the Law, then one is also susceptible to the penalties of the Law when that Law is broken.

Deuteronomy 28 reveals the curse that is the result of not keeping the Law in the manner that God decreed.

Is one truly keeping the Law of tithing when one tithes money to ones local religious institution? The answer, of course, is NO!

The Law states that God's holy tithe is agricultural, not monetary. (Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 14:22-29) It also states that man cannot do what seems right in his own eyes. (Deuteronomy 12:8)

One cannot place oneself under the Law of the Tithe and use the argument, "I am not a farmer, nor am I a herder" as an excuse to tithe money.
If one places oneself under the Law, then one must live by that Law's demands,... or be cursed. (Galatians 3:10)

The Law is the justification, or the condemnation of the one walking in it. Such an one who is walking in the Law has rejected Jesus Christ. (Galatians 5:4)

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Justified by Law? Or Condemned?
by Ronald W. Robey

How many, while discussing tithes with a pro-tithing proponent, have heard the other party say, "We are not under the Law, but under Grace. However,Jesus Himself said it should be done. So, we should pay our tithe."

While they admit that we are not under the Law, they are placing themselves under the Law by saying "We should pay our tithe."

In the same verse where Jesus said that tithing should be done, (Matthew 23:23) Jesus also said that tithing is "a matter of the Law." One cannot employ a matter of the Law without being subject to the Law.

If one is subject to the Law, then one is also susceptible to the penalties of the Law when that Law is broken.

Deuteronomy 28 reveals the curse that is the result of not keeping the Law in the manner that God decreed.

Is one truly keeping the Law of tithing when one tithes money to ones local religious institution? The answer, of course, is NO!

The Law states that God's holy tithe is agricultural, not monetary. (Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 14:22-29) It also states that man cannot do what seems right in his own eyes. (Deuteronomy 12:8)

One cannot place oneself under the Law of the Tithe and use the argument, "I am not a farmer, nor am I a herder" as an excuse to tithe money.
If one places oneself under the Law, then one must live by that Law's demands,... or be cursed. (Galatians 3:10)

The Law is the justification, or the condemnation of the one walking in it. Such an one who is walking in the Law has rejected Jesus Christ. (Galatians 5:4)

I am still waiting for a tithe heaters to answer to this.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does an indeterminate offering equal the manner of supporting ministers at "the altar" "even so" as the ancients who supported God's appointed ministers?

I know the tithe haters can't deal with that, possibly even hating Abraham for tithing. I will thus apply a dose of mercy by explaining that God won't bless this generation's economy like promised to Israel long ago, which rejected God's blessings on those who obey. He will quickly leave you to your own devices. When someone demands from you $1000 for a loaf of brad in a famine, pay up or starve. But the righteous who have obeyed the voice of God's Spirit will have birds bring it to them free. Choose. Are you part of his economy? Is your limit eternal salvation upon death of the body, not caring about tough times to come? Tithers have no worry about famine.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Hi RobbyEarl,
It looks to me like you are confusing "tithing" with "giving". The two are not the same thing. Tithing is a requirement under the Mosaic Law, given to the Israelites and Levites. Giving under the New Testament guidelines is not tithing. Romans, Galatians and Hebrews make it clear that Gentile believers, and Jews who believe in Jesus for salvation, are not under the Mosaic Law. Therefore, we are not required to 'tithe'. If you want to address Christian giving, or lack of it, please specify 'giving' rather than confusing the issue by using or implying the term 'tithing'.

All people of earth can "offer", though not benefot from recognition from God. Few gain access to the blessings of tithing. Offerings are looked at by what's owed by law, your part regarded as "credit" for the offerer. The concept is like "offering" your willing sum to the IRS, while still owing what is expected. I'm not promoting the IRS, but take the side of a private businessman wanting to pay up for that thing you bought from him on credit. A "buyer" is an infidel if not paying up.

So be an iniifdfel before God if you will, a parson wanting the blessing of God on your tips to God.

It's sounding like some folks here have no idea how to eat out while reasonably rewarding a waitress/waiter for performance beyond the required. God is blessing like that, only far beyond our expectations on both sides.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

1 Corinthians 9:13-14, when read in context, is speaking of support for the Apostles, not stationary ministers.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
Many pastors like to use this verse as a means to justify extracting financial support from their congregations. The pastors who do this are wrong. This passage is not speaking of stationary pastors of Churches. Rather, it is speaking of Apostles, traveling ministers being provided for.
The key in this passage is the phrase “They which preach the Gospel.” In the Word of God, who is seen “preaching the Gospel,” or told to “preach the Gospel”? Those that are sent. (Ro 10:15) Those that travel about. (Mt 4:23; 9:35; Mr 1:14; Lu 9:6; 2Co 10:14) Those who are called out and separated from among the body of Believers. (Acts 13:2) Those who come into cities. (Mark 1:14)

it is those who are traveling.
Stationary pastors are not told to “preach the Gospel.” They are told to “feed the flock of God. (1 Peter 5:2) They are told to “feed the Church of God. (Acts 20:28) They are to “preach the Word.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
It is not their responsibility to “preach the Gospel” to the Church of God. The Church has already heard the Gospel and accepted the Gospel. That is why they are the “Church,” … because they believed the Gospel and are the Body of Christ. They don’t need the Gospel… they already have it. What the Church needs is nourishment so that it can grow. It needs the sincere milk of the Word. (1 Peter 2:2) It needs to move past the baby stages, and march forward as brave and faithful soldiers of the Lord Jesus Christ!
If you ate Pablum as an infant, and stayed on Pablum all your life, no doubt you would remain weak, unable to fend for yourself; always dependent on others to fight your battles. The Church is not established to keep its members on spiritual Pablum. The Church is to equip the saints so that they can be faithful witnesses to those outside the walls of the sanctuary. So that they can carry a light into a world filled with darkness. God doesn’t want a Church to be spiritually weak, He wants them to be strengthened by His Word. He wants His Church to be able to resist the devil when temptations come. He is looking for those who will be ambassadors for Him in this present age we live in.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Justified by Law? Or Condemned?
by Ronald W. Robey

How many, while discussing tithes with a pro-tithing proponent, have heard the other party say, "We are not under the Law, but under Grace. However,Jesus Himself said it should be done. So, we should pay our tithe."

While they admit that we are not under the Law, they are placing themselves under the Law by saying "We should pay our tithe."

In the same verse where Jesus said that tithing should be done, (Matthew 23:23) Jesus also said that tithing is "a matter of the Law." One cannot employ a matter of the Law without being subject to the Law.

If one is subject to the Law, then one is also susceptible to the penalties of the Law when that Law is broken.

Deuteronomy 28 reveals the curse that is the result of not keeping the Law in the manner that God decreed.

Is one truly keeping the Law of tithing when one tithes money to ones local religious institution? The answer, of course, is NO!

The Law states that God's holy tithe is agricultural, not monetary. (Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 14:22-29) It also states that man cannot do what seems right in his own eyes. (Deuteronomy 12:8)

One cannot place oneself under the Law of the Tithe and use the argument, "I am not a farmer, nor am I a herder" as an excuse to tithe money.
If one places oneself under the Law, then one must live by that Law's demands,... or be cursed. (Galatians 3:10)

The Law is the justification, or the condemnation of the one walking in it. Such an one who is walking in the Law has rejected Jesus Christ. (Galatians 5:4)

The law requires murders not to carry out murder.
Your issue is concerning the "letter" of the Law.

Is it possible you are missing the heart of the Law? Where or when did Jesus abolish all the intent (the heart) of the Law?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Tithers have no worry about famine?

Really?

I recall reading of a famine in Malachi's day because the Priest's had stolen the tithes from the Temple. The children of Israel had tithed. The Levites had tithed. Yet, because of the thievery on the part of the Priest's, the entire nation had famine.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

So it is so far determined here that one can't enter into the blessings of tithing if not raising cattle or a some other agri crop pleasing to God. Hey Americans.....if you are not a farmer. but a mere factory worker, or housekeeper of hotels, or a "mere" ranch hand for a ranch owner, you can't benefit of God's economy through tithes?
Think again. Satan wants to convince you your little past amounts to nothing. The truth is your part means everything to your position with God concerning your financial future.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I am still waiting for a tithe heaters to answer to this.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does an indeterminate offering equal the manner of supporting ministers at "the altar" "even so" as the ancients who supported God's appointed ministers?

I know the tithe haters can't deal with that, possibly even hating Abraham for tithing. I will thus apply a dose of mercy by explaining that God won't bless this generation's economy like promised to Israel long ago, which rejected God's blessings on those who obey. He will quickly leave you to your own devices. When someone demands from you $1000 for a loaf of brad in a famine, pay up or starve. But the righteous who have obeyed the voice of God's Spirit will have birds bring it to them free. Choose. Are you part of his economy? Is your limit eternal salvation upon death of the body, not caring about tough times to come? Tithers have no worry about famine.

I know the tithe haters can't deal with that, possibly even hating Abraham for tithing. Tithing preachers must hate Abram because he didn't keep ANYTHING for himself. He gave a tenth to Melchizedek and the rest to the King of Sodom.

Sigh.

I, a cheerful giving supporter, certainly don't hate Abram. Neither for the tithe of spoils he gave to Melchizedek, nor for the rest of the spoils that he didn't keep either. I find it irritating, though, how tithing promoters cherry-pick the passage and focus on the tenth Abram gave but completely omit the text that show Abram kept nothing.

When someone demands from you $1000 for a loaf of brad in a famine, pay up or starve. But the righteous who have obeyed the voice of God's Spirit will have birds bring it to them free. Choose. Are you part of his economy? Here we have some sound Biblical interpretation from...uhhhh...where?

Tithers have no worry about famine. Try telling that to some who have been tithing for years or decades and have, from the beginning to end, barely been able to make ends meet.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

So it is so far determined here that one can't enter into the blessings of tithing if not raising cattle or a some other agri crop pleasing to God. Hey Americans.....if you are not a farmer. but a mere factory worker, or housekeeper of hotels, or a "mere" ranch hand for a ranch owner, you can't benefit of God's economy through tithes?
Think again. Satan wants to convince you your little past amounts to nothing. The truth is your part means everything to your position with God concerning your financial future.

Substitute for the words tithe/tenth/tithing the words give/giving. 10% is not compulsorily. That doesn't mean God won't lay it on anyone's heart to give 10%, but 10% is not the "beginning" or "starting point" for giving.

The starting point for giving is whatever God lays on one's heart.

Tithing is O.T., Mosaic law. Tithing is pre-calvary.

Giving with a cheerful heart is N.T.

Anyone, then, can enter into the blessings of giving with a cheerful heart. Free will offerings, gifts, sacrificial offerings. Whatever the amount be, whether it's just a small percentage(which is a LOT for someone living a fixed income) or an entire paycheck(for someone who is financially very successful).

 

[Dino246]

[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does an indeterminate offering equal the manner of supporting ministers at "the altar" "even so" as the ancients who supported God's appointed ministers?

An "indeterminate" offering, as you call it, is what the New Testament calls for. As a man chooses in his heart, according to the needs, without compulsion. I can supply references if need be, but I suspect that you know them. The "even so" is an idiom, meaning "in similar manner" not "in exactly the same way".

I know the tithe haters can't deal with that, possibly even hating Abraham for tithing.

This is a straw man fallacy... set up a scarecrow called 'haters' then shoot it down. Disagreement does not equal hating, despite what culture wants to say about it.

All people of earth can "offer", though not benefot from recognition from God. Few gain access to the blessings of tithing.

The so-called "blessings of tithing" are certainly available to all... who follow the Law of Moses to the letter. There has only been One who accomplished that feat.

WS, you can speak of the blessings of tithing all day, but I suggest that you prove just one example with objective, irrefutable evidence which is not faith-based. I suspect the best you can do is give circumstantial evidence, which is not what I'm requesting.