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C
Deuteronomy 14:22 ¶ Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
Isaiah 30:23 ¶ Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
The Bible doesn't say to give a tenth of everything. That is man's interpretation.
Isaiah 30:23 ¶ Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
The Bible doesn't say to give a tenth of everything. That is man's interpretation.
C
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
It doesn't say he gave a tenth of all Abraham owned. It says he gave a tenth of the spoils or what he increased.
It is also not a command that Abraham did but a freewill offering. There is no command in the Bible for Abraham to tithe.
Abraham is also only once recorded as tithing in the whole Bible.
It doesn't say he gave a tenth of all Abraham owned. It says he gave a tenth of the spoils or what he increased.
It is also not a command that Abraham did but a freewill offering. There is no command in the Bible for Abraham to tithe.
Abraham is also only once recorded as tithing in the whole Bible.
First, I did a lot of searches to find Jimmy Swaggart's education, and there was not one place that said he went to seminary or even Bible college (Seminary is for Masters' degrees and Bible college is for diploma's certificates and undergrad degrees)
However, there is a Seminary on the campus of his "Jimmy Swaggart Ministries" in Baton Rouge, LA. But he didn't go there.
Second, even if he had gone to Seminary, one person (or a hundred or a thousand....) does not condemn anyone else who has gone to Seminary. By throwing out this straw man, and claiming it proves your point, you have instead posted very dishonest statement.
Seminary is where people go to study the Bible, to learn about God, and to learn skills on how to help people and to be able to study the Bible on your own, especially in the original languages. Although I do admit that the original language requirements seem to be losing ground in many seminaries, which is a terrible loss. Knowing Greek and Hebrew have helped me immensely, and I am so blessed to have had the privilege to be able to study and learn Hebrew and Greek.
I will also say that my many years, part time in Seminary meant that I met a lot of students going through the various Master's degree programs. There were so many amazing people - anointed, passionate about God, caring and loving,, and so gifted! I can only thank God he gave me the opportunity to go to Seminary.
I don't think you will find most people in this forum calling me ignorant of God because of my book learning. But I guess sometimes these irrational prejudices are hard to break.
PS. Approximately. 50% of pastors in the United States are addicted to pornography and it is even higher among the general Christian population. As my husband says, "Why on earth are they even in ministry?" But as I say, no one is perfect, but we are being sanctified and changing through the power of the Holy Spirit. And the real point is, many of those pastors went to Seminary, and many did not. I don't think their background OR education was a big influence on their choice to sin.
Collecting funds to support the assembly in all manner is always good.
If you wish to use the word, tithe, for a collection, fine, be clear on that.
Tithing as given by the Bible is impossible today. There is not Israel of God, no Temple, and no one nation of God (Spiritual Israel) in this age, not even a copy of the original model.
If you do not know what I am alluding to here,, read all about the various tithes in the Word............it is all there, and it has nothing to do with assemblies of today.
If you wish to use the word, tithe, for a collection, fine, be clear on that.
Tithing as given by the Bible is impossible today. There is not Israel of God, no Temple, and no one nation of God (Spiritual Israel) in this age, not even a copy of the original model.
If you do not know what I am alluding to here,, read all about the various tithes in the Word............it is all there, and it has nothing to do with assemblies of today.
R
To those who think tithing is for today, why don't you follow the Biblical guidelines for tithing set forth in the OT?
(In other words, why don't you follow the law?) You certainly quote Scriptures from the first five books of the Bible to defend your position, but then ignore the fine details of how the multiple tithes are to be brought!
"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham" Heb 7:5
If you are teaching tithing today, why are you not commanding the congregations to take multiple tithes? You can't just cherry pick from the law of Moses! Note one of the requirements for taking a tithe, are YOU lawfully eligible to receive tithes as set forth in the Scriptures? Are you a son of Levi?
(In other words, why don't you follow the law?) You certainly quote Scriptures from the first five books of the Bible to defend your position, but then ignore the fine details of how the multiple tithes are to be brought!
"And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham" Heb 7:5
If you are teaching tithing today, why are you not commanding the congregations to take multiple tithes? You can't just cherry pick from the law of Moses! Note one of the requirements for taking a tithe, are YOU lawfully eligible to receive tithes as set forth in the Scriptures? Are you a son of Levi?
Well, I didn't attend a seminary, but I believe the scripture you quoted is Paul's advice to Timothy upon advising him to choose and ordain ELDERS in the church... it had nothing to do with preachers. He said that in order to be an elder, or shepherd of the church, you want older, more experienced men. Men who had lived life, and survived all the mistakes... men who had raised children who believed in God. Men whose lives showed that they loved God, and were firm in Christ... THESE were the men who were to be the spiritual leaders and guides of the church.
The preacher? (incorrectly called "pastor") He simply teaches.... and should be closely monitored by the elders to make sure he teaches truth.
The preacher? (incorrectly called "pastor") He simply teaches.... and should be closely monitored by the elders to make sure he teaches truth.
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me to preach the gospel(Good news) to the poor. He has sent Me to heal the broken hearted(Crushed by the weight of oppressive religion). And preach deliverance to the captives (bound to the money mad Talmudian Pharisees).
And recovering sight to the blind (blinded by the misrepresentation of God), to set at Liberty them that are bruised (bound by twisted religion).
Not only the state oppressed the folks but it was religion that oppressed them as well. That was way to much, as it is today. Washington and the Babylonian church just can't seem to get enough of your wallet. May they both expire with the slobbering fits. You say that isn't true about the 'church'. Then tell me why after you cut your check for the ungodly tithe, then it's an 'offering for this and offering for that. Dig deep.
They tell you that 'the tithe is only the starting point. That already belongs to God. If you want to be blessed you gotta start giving till it hurts (in a word, bankrupts you). Offerings, offerings, and more offerings. Sister pastor needs her own new car...you know...for her ministry!
Jesus did say in Matt. 23:3 obey whatever they (religious leaders) tell you but don't do as they do.
Interpret that today with 'if you love Me keep 'MY' commandments.'
He warns that following the traditions(Talmud) of men 'makes of none effect the word of God.'
So according to today's Babylonian fiasco we adoringly call 'church', the gospel good news is this. The poor, the broken hearted, the captive in religious bondage, the blinded ignorant, have the joyful and privileged opportunity to cough up ten percent of their paltry income to a guy that refuses 'to lift one little finger to help with their heavy burden'. Luke 11:46
Luke 23:13 ...they block the way to His kingdom, freedom, and deliverance. They don't enter in and stop others from entering in as well.
Amazing how they preach a house a fire. I throw in the impressive grunt, HUH! 'Tarry not. HUH! Enter His glorious kingdom, Huh! Be set at Liberty, HUH! Be free, HUH! Deliverance is yours tonight. HUH! Get your wallet out! Get your wallet out! Get down here to the altar now. Run if you have to. If someone is in the way, knock em down. Don't let this moment for your deliverance pass you by. Run!! This is your night! Run as fast as you can. Place your money on this holy altar. Quick! Hallelujah, bless God, amen. Shalamahundaycallamazoo..I'm taking your wallet and money from you!! I mean uh, uh ...God bless you brotha! Be blessed!
Now I know I just picked on the poor TV preachers, sorry about their luck. Gehenna you know, but. I don't see any real difference down at that church on the corner of 15th and Heresy St.
Freely they received and exorbitantly they charge. Good news gospel indeed! For them!
And recovering sight to the blind (blinded by the misrepresentation of God), to set at Liberty them that are bruised (bound by twisted religion).
Not only the state oppressed the folks but it was religion that oppressed them as well. That was way to much, as it is today. Washington and the Babylonian church just can't seem to get enough of your wallet. May they both expire with the slobbering fits. You say that isn't true about the 'church'. Then tell me why after you cut your check for the ungodly tithe, then it's an 'offering for this and offering for that. Dig deep.
They tell you that 'the tithe is only the starting point. That already belongs to God. If you want to be blessed you gotta start giving till it hurts (in a word, bankrupts you). Offerings, offerings, and more offerings. Sister pastor needs her own new car...you know...for her ministry!
Jesus did say in Matt. 23:3 obey whatever they (religious leaders) tell you but don't do as they do.
Interpret that today with 'if you love Me keep 'MY' commandments.'
He warns that following the traditions(Talmud) of men 'makes of none effect the word of God.'
So according to today's Babylonian fiasco we adoringly call 'church', the gospel good news is this. The poor, the broken hearted, the captive in religious bondage, the blinded ignorant, have the joyful and privileged opportunity to cough up ten percent of their paltry income to a guy that refuses 'to lift one little finger to help with their heavy burden'. Luke 11:46
Luke 23:13 ...they block the way to His kingdom, freedom, and deliverance. They don't enter in and stop others from entering in as well.
Amazing how they preach a house a fire. I throw in the impressive grunt, HUH! 'Tarry not. HUH! Enter His glorious kingdom, Huh! Be set at Liberty, HUH! Be free, HUH! Deliverance is yours tonight. HUH! Get your wallet out! Get your wallet out! Get down here to the altar now. Run if you have to. If someone is in the way, knock em down. Don't let this moment for your deliverance pass you by. Run!! This is your night! Run as fast as you can. Place your money on this holy altar. Quick! Hallelujah, bless God, amen. Shalamahundaycallamazoo..I'm taking your wallet and money from you!! I mean uh, uh ...God bless you brotha! Be blessed!
Now I know I just picked on the poor TV preachers, sorry about their luck. Gehenna you know, but. I don't see any real difference down at that church on the corner of 15th and Heresy St.
Freely they received and exorbitantly they charge. Good news gospel indeed! For them!
Forget what your loving pastor said and let's see what the word of God actually says.
1Tim.5:17 Let the elders that rule(gr: proistemi: direct, not rule) well, be counted worthy of double honor....
honor:gr: timees: honor, respect, not wages.
The greek word opsonion means compensation, wages. It was not used in this verse. Do you suppose why?
Take note that it says elders, plural. Not a single top dog pastor.
Rewarding an oxe with cash?? Silly. His reward is grain. The reward for one who teaches well is respect.
Now moving on. If you say it's a full salary with perks here, then if you have an assembly of 20 folks and 15 are elders, and 10 of them 'teach well', deserving of DOUBLE honor, how the duce is this small fellowship going to afford paychecks equivalent to the average 40 hour work week wage, and then take each amount times two....double salary you know?
So if the average weekly income is 500.00 taken times two is 1000.00, taken times ten, ten good teachers you see, that would come out to 10,000.00 that the other ten folks would have to come up with every week to pay these ten their deserving double salaries...I mean they deserve it. Your words....'why not pay them'?....right?
Another severe, severe problem that will blow up the whole gathering...I mean to bits.
15 elders...right? Whose to say who the better teachers are. Uh oh....I see jealousy bubbling up, tension, hurt feelings, anger, splits. I mean you got 15 elders vying for that 1000.00 weekly pay check. Who gets to teach next? 'I'm not gonna be left out. It's my turn to teach. I'll prove I'm the best teacher in this man's army.'
Did I just here a loud explosion? BAM....CABOOM!!?!
So what was the question?.......oh yea 'Why don't you pay them'? Are you getting it yet? Be free, be blessed!
Oops! One more deal. In Acts 20, all the elders/pastors are commanded to work secular jobs so they can help take care of the poor.
If they are getting 1000.00 a week because they are good teachers, why are they told to keep their day jobs?
One more. The man that goes to war is the itenerent preacher like Paul. They deserve our support, though Paul refused it himself so as the gospel be not hindered.
1Tim.5:17 Let the elders that rule(gr: proistemi: direct, not rule) well, be counted worthy of double honor....
honor:gr: timees: honor, respect, not wages.
The greek word opsonion means compensation, wages. It was not used in this verse. Do you suppose why?
Take note that it says elders, plural. Not a single top dog pastor.
Rewarding an oxe with cash?? Silly. His reward is grain. The reward for one who teaches well is respect.
Now moving on. If you say it's a full salary with perks here, then if you have an assembly of 20 folks and 15 are elders, and 10 of them 'teach well', deserving of DOUBLE honor, how the duce is this small fellowship going to afford paychecks equivalent to the average 40 hour work week wage, and then take each amount times two....double salary you know?
So if the average weekly income is 500.00 taken times two is 1000.00, taken times ten, ten good teachers you see, that would come out to 10,000.00 that the other ten folks would have to come up with every week to pay these ten their deserving double salaries...I mean they deserve it. Your words....'why not pay them'?....right?
Another severe, severe problem that will blow up the whole gathering...I mean to bits.
15 elders...right? Whose to say who the better teachers are. Uh oh....I see jealousy bubbling up, tension, hurt feelings, anger, splits. I mean you got 15 elders vying for that 1000.00 weekly pay check. Who gets to teach next? 'I'm not gonna be left out. It's my turn to teach. I'll prove I'm the best teacher in this man's army.'
Did I just here a loud explosion? BAM....CABOOM!!?!
So what was the question?.......oh yea 'Why don't you pay them'? Are you getting it yet? Be free, be blessed!
Oops! One more deal. In Acts 20, all the elders/pastors are commanded to work secular jobs so they can help take care of the poor.
If they are getting 1000.00 a week because they are good teachers, why are they told to keep their day jobs?
One more. The man that goes to war is the itenerent preacher like Paul. They deserve our support, though Paul refused it himself so as the gospel be not hindered.
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R
You can't live off of respect
1 Corinthians 9
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
And neither could the priest and Levites.
1 Corinthians 9
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
And neither could the priest and Levites.
The context of 1 Corinthians 9 shows Paul was speaking of Apostles, those separated from the local Church, that should receive support.
He was not speaking of Elders in the local Church. He had already declared that they were to work to support themselves and the weak.
the Levites were not supported by monetary remuneration. They were supported by agricultural tithes and offerings.
He was not speaking of Elders in the local Church. He had already declared that they were to work to support themselves and the weak.
the Levites were not supported by monetary remuneration. They were supported by agricultural tithes and offerings.
R
Ask a farmer how many head of cattle does He have. He reply "that like asking me how much money I have in the bank". Who eats for free?
If you don't work you do not eat
Bring the tithe that shall be food in My House. Malachi
Food for who? Those that did the work in the temple
As for your local church, Who pays the light bill? who pays the property Tax? Who pays the man that gives you the bread of life?
Give the tithe so that there may be Food in My house.
If the Levites and Priest had to work in other fields to feed their families then the House of God would be neglected.
If you don't work you do not eat
Bring the tithe that shall be food in My House. Malachi
Food for who? Those that did the work in the temple
As for your local church, Who pays the light bill? who pays the property Tax? Who pays the man that gives you the bread of life?
Give the tithe so that there may be Food in My house.
If the Levites and Priest had to work in other fields to feed their families then the House of God would be neglected.
The brick and mortar building there the saved assemble is not God's House. God does not dwell in buildings made with hands. Even the Apostle John knew that.. He wrote in his second Epistle: "To the Elect ladt and to the church that is ain thy house." Notice he did not say God's House.
I am quite sure many of the Levites did work jobs apart from the Temple. They worked in shifts, with the majority of them working only a day or two a year. Doorkeepers, Singers and Musicians worked the Temple longer than anyone else. Their shifts demanded they work more days than the rest.
I am quite sure many of the Levites did work jobs apart from the Temple. They worked in shifts, with the majority of them working only a day or two a year. Doorkeepers, Singers and Musicians worked the Temple longer than anyone else. Their shifts demanded they work more days than the rest.
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If you're going to apply Mal 3:10, O.T. law, then apply the whole law! All tithes given & all of them taken to the correct place and used by the appropriate person(s).
And, since we're talking about the storehouse, how about those first couple of T/F statements. You could become the first pro-tither to actually answer them all. The first two is a great start.
1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
And, since we're talking about the storehouse, how about those first couple of T/F statements. You could become the first pro-tither to actually answer them all. The first two is a great start.
1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.