Tithe!

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Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
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Jesus said you "ought to give tithe" so why not do It?

Luke 11:42 (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

the Pharisees tithed everything to the smallest decree.

Matthew 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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Goodnewsman..tell me....what covnant was in force when Jesus told the pharisees to tithe?
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
two options with tithing

1.) give them (not pay them, because they don't belong to you)

2.) steal them

your choice!!!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,036
13,567
113
I realize you too find Paul too hard. I understand. So did Peter.

You seem to consider those who disagree with your interpretation to be intellectually inferior to you. Or perhaps just morally inferior. That is the essence of arrogance. It's not a nice trait, and certainly not one becoming of a claimant to the salvation of Christ.

Having read many of your posts in this thread, I can only conclude that your reasoning and mine on this issue are simply not on the same frequency. We both believe in Christ's salvation, and in the truth of Scripture. That will have to be enough. :)
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
Romans 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

John 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


Galatians 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


the only parts of the old testament laws that Jesus mentioned in the New testament where the ones he intended for us to obey today which leads me to believe that he wanted us to tithe.

why would Jesus tell him pay tithes?


Goodnewsman..tell me....what covnant was in force when Jesus told the pharisees to tithe?
 
Aug 28, 2013
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Exegeting Matthew 23:23
by Ronald W Robey


Woe to you, (sorrows, calamities)
scribes (lawyers)
and Pharisees (religious leaders)
Hypocrites! (actors; those who put on a pretense)
For ye tithe mint, and anise, and cummin (you give a tenth of your garden products)
and have neglected (you’ve failed to observe)
the weightier matters (more important things)
of the Law (the Mosaic Law)
Judgment, Mercy and Faith
These (tithes of garden products)
ought ye to have done (you should have done)
and not to leave the others undone (Judgment, Mercy and Faith)


The Mosaic Law stated that God’s holy tithe was crops and livestock in the land of Israel. Jesus was commending the scribes and Pharisees for keeping the command concerning tithes (tithing mint, anise and cummin) and said they should be doing exactly what they were doing. Why?

Because that is what the Law required, and as citizens of the land to which the Law applied, it was their duty to obey the Mosaic Law given to Israel just as we are to obey the laws in the state/county in which we live today.


Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed.


Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall observe to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth.


Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

The Mosaic Law commanded tithes of crops and livestock. (Notice in this verse God made a distinction between firstlings and tithes. So much for the claim that firstborn animals were tithies. LOL)


Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.


Man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. The tithe was crops and livestock, not money. Man was forbidden to tithe money.


Jesus was not saying ‘tithe money in Matthew 23:23. Not at all. He was saying continue tithing that which the Law requires.


Those who insist that tithing should be done, are not even tithing in the manner that God decreed, i.e.; agricultural, in Canaan, to sons of Levi, widows, orphans, foreigners living in Israel, and tithing to self. If they don’t tithe as God decreed, they really have no business telling others to tithe.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,036
13,567
113
Jesus said you "ought to give tithe" so why not do It?

Luke 11:42 (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

the Pharisees tithed everything to the smallest decree.

Matthew 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Check the verb tense on Luke 11:42. There is treasure there.

When Jesus said that our righteousness needed to exceed that of the Pharisees, he wasn't saying, 'try harder' or 'give more'. than they do. He was alluding to the fact that the only righteousness which God accepts is that of His Son.... perfect. Tithing neither establishes the believer in perfect righteousness, nor maintains it once achieved. That's the principle of Galatians.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
I understand that our righteousness is filthy rags... all i'm saying is that Jesus said "ye ought to"

that's enough for me.


Check the verb tense on Luke 11:42. There is treasure there.

When Jesus said that our righteousness needed to exceed that of the Pharisees, he wasn't saying, 'try harder' or 'give more'. than they do. He was alluding to the fact that the only righteousness which God accepts is that of His Son.... perfect. Tithing neither establishes the believer in perfect righteousness, nor maintains it once achieved. That's the principle of Galatians.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,036
13,567
113
I understand that our righteousness is filthy rags... all i'm saying is that Jesus said "ye ought to"

that's enough for me.
Read the verb tense. Carefully. :)
 
Last edited:
Jan 24, 2009
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I understand that our righteousness is filthy rags... all i'm saying is that Jesus said "ye ought to"

that's enough for me.
Since Jesus hadn't died on the cross, the O.T. rules on tithing were still in place. It becomes easy to understand why Jesus didn't tell them tithing was unnecessary. They ought to have been tithing at that time. They also ought to, even moreso, have been working on justice and love.

Your understanding is also wrong on our righteousness/works/charity. The Christians' works are not "filthy rags", or(as I've also heard/read)...garbage, junk, rotten, etc.

Besides tithing, this is another commonly misunderstanding issue among believers.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Eph 2:8-10 (Notice the key verse is directly after the well-known Eph 2:8-9)

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Gal 5:22-23

Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice. But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. -James 3:13-17

In Matthew 25, the servant who was entrusted with gold came back with double, and was told "well done, good and faithful servant".

The "filthy rags"(Isaiah 64:6) misapplied to the Christian's works was because Israel had become disobedient and was trying to gain God's favor without a real change of heart. Her motives were wrong.

:)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,048
949
113
Turn into Money and Bestow, Tithing in Moses Time and Tithe of the Land

Deut. 14 is NOT to buy back tithe, the word is “turn into money” and “bestow” no way of redeeming or buy back, remember only the fruit of the land was to be bought back and animals were not redeemed yet tithes includes animals. The clear statements in the bible why it will be “turn into money” is because of distance “If is too far” and “if it is too long”. There’s no clear indication of spoiling it… then that money will bestow…

Yes there is tithing during Moses time even when they have not yet cross the Land of Canaan, they were to practice all the commandments to which include the tithes as stated in Leviticus 27:30-32 so that the children of Israel will not:
1. Forget it. “remember all the way”
2. To humble them
3. To prove their allegiance in keeping the commandments.

Deuteronomy 8: 1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deuteronomy 8: 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

I have to agree, Moses commanded the Israelites, a must do it in the land of Canaan but noticed in the next verses that these commandments were to be in their hearts and that they should teach it diligently to their children (Deut.6:6-9). Moses told the children of Israel that it was LORD who commanded them to do all the statutes and that obedience be made for them in order to preserved alive just as is it in that day (Deut. 6:24-25 cp. Deut. 8:6) i.e. when Moses was saying those commandments, statutes and judgment should be noted well in the manner as those were already being performed and needs to be practice or remembered. In other words, the tithes were already performed when the Tabernacle was reared up in Exodus 17:17 and that Leviticus 27:30-31 had this confirmed.

Further, there’s a RECORD for all tithe of the land. While the land of Canaan is a land of milk and honey, “a land of wheat and barley and vines, and fig trees… Deut. 8:8 but it is also a “… land whose stones are iron and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass” (Deut. 8:9), it is indeed rich in mineral deposits for DIGGING and how can a digger tithe? I would suspect it would be silver, gold. brass or iron and the more, this tithe, which would be lighter and easier carriage-COINED MONEY.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,036
13,567
113
i'm sorry, I must be getting tired, but i'm missing your point....explain please:)
I pointed this out previously, but it's easy to miss a post among several pages. No worries... what I'm getting at here is that Jesus did not say 'You ought to tithe' as in present-continuous tense. He said, "You ought to have tithed" as in past tense. Granted, his words were not exactly that, but my rephrasing makes the tense more clear.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, who thought that their adherence to the Law made them acceptable to God. Of course, it didn't, and never could, because they failed to keep the whole Law.

The way I see it is this: by using past tense in the Luke passage, Jesus is hinting at the fact that the Law will be fulfilled, and tithing, like all the other aspects of the Law, will no longer be a requirement. It's like a performance review after you've completed a job; these things you 'ought to have done'. However, you have a different job now.

Another related point: taking a few words of Jesus out-of-context and allowing them to 'be enough for you' is bad practice and poor hermeneutics. :)
 
Aug 28, 2013
955
11
0
Turn into Money and Bestow, Tithing in Moses Time and Tithe of the Land

Deut. 14 is NOT to buy back tithe, the word is “turn into money” and “bestow” no way of redeeming or buy back, remember only the fruit of the land was to be bought back and animals were not redeemed yet tithes includes animals. The clear statements in the bible why it will be “turn into money” is because of distance “If is too far” and “if it is too long”. There’s no clear indication of spoiling it… then that money will bestow…

Yes there is tithing during Moses time even when they have not yet cross the Land of Canaan, they were to practice all the commandments to which include the tithes as stated in Leviticus 27:30-32 so that the children of Israel will not:
1. Forget it. “remember all the way”
2. To humble them
3. To prove their allegiance in keeping the commandments.

Deuteronomy 8: 1 All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
Deuteronomy 8: 2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.

I have to agree, Moses commanded the Israelites, a must do it in the land of Canaan but noticed in the next verses that these commandments were to be in their hearts and that they should teach it diligently to their children (Deut.6:6-9). Moses told the children of Israel that it was LORD who commanded them to do all the statutes and that obedience be made for them in order to preserved alive just as is it in that day (Deut. 6:24-25 cp. Deut. 8:6) i.e. when Moses was saying those commandments, statutes and judgment should be noted well in the manner as those were already being performed and needs to be practice or remembered. In other words, the tithes were already performed when the Tabernacle was reared up in Exodus 17:17 and that Leviticus 27:30-31 had this confirmed.

Further, there’s a RECORD for all tithe of the land. While the land of Canaan is a land of milk and honey, “a land of wheat and barley and vines, and fig trees… Deut. 8:8 but it is also a “… land whose stones are iron and out of whose hills thou mayest dig brass” (Deut. 8:9), it is indeed rich in mineral deposits for DIGGING and how can a digger tithe? I would suspect it would be silver, gold. brass or iron and the more, this tithe, which would be lighter and easier carriage-COINED MONEY.
The Hebrew Lexicons define "nathan," translated "turn it into" as, amfong other thitngs, "sell."

The tithe was sold for silver.

This is further proved by the fact that, once the tither arrived at the place God chose, they were to "bestow" (same Hebrew word, "nathan") that money to buy food for themselves. The Hebrew word "nathan" has another definition, the word "designate". The money was to be used for a specific purpose. They were not to keep the money. Nor were they to give it away. They were to spend it on their family. The money bought the tithe necessary for the family to be nourished during the week-long festivity.

It is quite clear that the word "bestow" and the phrase "turn it into" are referring to buying the tithe and selling the tithe.

Your argument fails once again..
 
Aug 28, 2013
955
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The miner was not required to tithe his silver and gold.

"All the tithe of the land" is clearly defined in the passage wherein it is found. It is defined as "whether of the seed of the land; or of the fruit of the tree; And concerning the tithe of the flocks and herds...". Seed, fruit, livestock,... none of this is referring to silver and gold.

Further proof that silver and gold were not titheable can be seen in the story of the coin in the fish' mouth. No instruction to tithe in that miraculous event in which the Apostles gained money needed to pay tribute. Matter of fact, if oyne reads every instance in the Bible where money is earned, not once in any instane is that person told to tithe that money.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
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two options with tithing

1.) give them (not pay them, because they don't belong to you)

2.) steal them

your choice!!!
The only ones guilty of theft are the hirelings(pastors), for enforcing the false tithe.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
Romans 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

John 1:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


Galatians 3:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


the only parts of the old testament laws that Jesus mentioned in the New testament where the ones he intended for us to obey today which leads me to believe that he wanted us to tithe.

why would Jesus tell him pay tithes?
Goodnews, you still have not answered the question. This is the no spin zone. What covenant was enforce when Jesus told the Pharisees that they should have paid tithes?

And about your handle 'Goodnews...'. When the poor and the widows have to go without the necessities in order to tithe, how is that 'Good News'.
I suggest the name 'Badnews' would be more appropriate.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
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43
ok, I didn't realize Bill O'Reilly was on CC. I thought I answered this pretty plain with scriptures. "CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW" ROMANS 10:4

Didn't Jesus say that he didn't come to "do away with, but fulfill the law"?

didn't the psalmist say "I've never seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread"?

SINCE YOU PASSING OUT SUGGESTIONS, I SUGGEST YOU QUIT BEING A GOD ROBBING, TIGHTWAD AND GIVE YOUR TITHES



Goodnews, you still have not answered the question. This is the no spin zone. What covenant was enforce when Jesus told the Pharisees that they should have paid tithes?

And about your handle 'Goodnews...'. When the poor and the widows have to go without the necessities in order to tithe, how is that 'Good News'.
I suggest the name 'Badnews' would be more appropriate.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,036
13,567
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... "CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW" ROMANS 10:4

Didn't Jesus say that he didn't come to "do away with, but fulfill the law"?

SINCE YOU PASSING OUT SUGGESTIONS, I SUGGEST YOU QUIT BEING A GOD ROBBING, TIGHTWAD AND GIVE YOUR TITHES
Goodnewsman, you won't convince anyone of the rightness of your view by calling them a 'God robbing tightwad' or by shouting (all-caps text). There are names one could call you too (from the Bible, no less), but that isn't going to get us anywhere. Let's rise above such behaviour. :)

You have touched on the essence of the disagreement in your post here. You seem to see tithing as compatible with new covenant belief. I and many others do not. We have good, sound, scripture-based reasons for believing that tithing is not required and we're trying to share those reasons with you, and to question your understanding where it seems off-base. No personal attack is intended.