Tithe!

[Dan_473]

quick question: if Jesus said we should do something, should we do it? of course we should and twice in the N.T he said we should tithe but not leave the weightier matters of the law undone
Matthew 23:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[HR][/HR] Luke 11:42 (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

note two things

who Jesus is talking to... scribes and pharisees... people who trusted in their ability to keep the law to gain righteousness... so, if someone has that same mindset, I advise them to definitely tithe, and everything else the law instructs.


Jesus is talking under the old covenent. He also tells Peter to pay the temple tax for both of them (if I remember right).

 

[Dan_473]

I was preaching a campmeeting years ago in florida of all places and mentioned tithing in my sermon when a gentlemen in the back spoke out loud to some young people and said "that's not in the bible, that was a mosaic law" of course the young people told me.

the next night while preaching I said "some of the young people told me about a "tightwad" who spoke outloud and said tithing was a mosaic law" I said "Abraham tithed and he lived 400 years before moses and further more Abraham's name before tithing was abram, after he tithed God hung the ham on him and called him abraham.

Hi Goodnewsman! you might be interested in the last 10 posts or so, where Abe is talked about...

my summary,
Abe is tithing on war booty, which may not be his.
he gives the king of Sodom a lot of stuff, too.
it appears he only tithes that once.

 

[Euphemia]

Hi Goodnewsman! you might be interested in the last 10 posts or so, where Abe is talked about...

my summary,
Abe is tithing on war booty, which may not be his.
he gives the king of Sodom a lot of stuff, too.
it appears he only tithes that once.

It is only recorded once, but it was a learned, common and acceptable behavior, and was passed down. Jacob tithed, as well, as spoken of in Genesis 28.

Genesis 28:22
And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me."

 

[Dan_473]

Okay, here is what I meant when I said that, that there’s no need to rehash what I’ve said. You can go over the similar thread http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/128620-jesus-paid-your-tithe.html or re read post after post… By saying “Abram tithed…” you are just giving me the upper hand. What am I saying is the principle behind and we can give beyond the tithe that’s why it is called “Tithes and Offerings”. The offering we give is more than the tithe (10%) which Paul is admonishing believers to do it but give themselves first. There is that says a 100% is for the New Testament and I am not against it. But look, If a 100% is needed to give to the Lord so what will happen to you? You cannot even pay your bills maybe your internet connection fee. To note also, God does not actually need our money? God owns everything that is true in the O.T. and it is true in the N.T. The Nt. Principle is to give and give and give, sow a little reap a little, sow much then reap much. But I have a doubt to those who say 100% but now allow the 10%. Think about this, there will be no 100% without 10%.
Now, question is, Did Abram tithe? Yes your honor, and that’s what you’re saying on and on. In a trial court, the case is dismissed!
God bless you sir.

great post, fredoheaven... here's some comments, if you're interested...

"By saying “Abram tithed…” you are just giving me the upper hand."
"Now, question is, Did Abram tithe? Yes your honor, and that’s what you’re saying on and on. In a trial court, the case is dismissed!"

the issue, I think, is that abe's tithe isn't what was meant in the op.





"The offering we give is more than the tithe (10%) which Paul is admonishing believers to do it but give themselves first."

I can't find where Paul admonishes believers to tithe... but I'm open to researching...




"There is that says a 100% is for the New Testament and I am not against it. But look, If a 100% is needed to give to the Lord so what will happen to you? You cannot even pay your bills maybe your internet connection fee."

yes, I think 100% of us does belong to God... bills? if you were a missionary in a foreign land, I think you would see your water bill as part of your ministry... doing God's work...

same with internet costs... are they part of a ministry that God has directed?

this to me is a danger of tithing for believers... it leads people to believe that there are legitimate things a believer can spend money on that are outside of what God directs.

 

[Dan_473]

It is only recorded once, but it was a learned, common and acceptable behavior, and was passed down. Jacob tithed, as well, as spoken of in Genesis 28.

Genesis 28:22
And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me."

who does abe give tithes to at other times? I'm interested... does abe tithe only on spoils?

I can't find that Jacob tithed, he says he will... if God will do this and that... I think Jake is trying to do a "let's make a deal"...

 

[Yet]

"Bunkum from the pulpit"? Yet you desire the pulpit for yourself.

Odd. Envy does great harm to one's mind.


.

You judge me falsely. I do not desire any pulpit. I am not envious toward the deceitful. Paul warned about it. He wasn't envious. Jesus warned about it. He wasn't envious. The prophets warned about it. They were not envious.
I teach the word with clear warnings and you won't deal with it. Throw a stone at the messenger for you have not the ability or desire to study the word aright.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is only recorded once, but it was a learned, common and acceptable behavior, and was passed down. Jacob tithed, as well, as spoken of in Genesis 28.

Genesis 28:22
And this memorial pillar I have set up will become a place for worshiping God, and I will present to God a tenth of everything he gives me."

There is no evidence that Jacob tithed. In fact, he promised to tithe on what GOD gave him, which in a few verses prior is shown to be the land that GOD promised to give him. However, since he didn't receive the land, he was under no obligation to tithe on its increase. That oath was required of his progeny who actually did inherit the land, and it was exacted from them through law. The tithe in the law of Moses, therefore, only pertains to the fulfillment of Jacob's vow by his descendents and the land itself.

 

[epostle]

I only read page 1 so if I may butt in...

I think tithing is admirable, but it should never be required. There seems to be as many pastors opposed to tithing as there are in favor. There are lots of struggling single moms on welfare who take their kids to church every Sunday. Expecting them to tithe when they don't have enough food to feed their kids is an injustice. The "you will be financially rewarded for your love offering" is a religious scam. The 10 minute speel about how "the Lord loves a cheerful giver" at collection time nauseates me. It's psychological coercion.

I don't mean to offend anyone here but I take objection to Benny Hinn's private jet and Joyce Meyer's multi-million dollar mansion paid for on the backs of the gullible poor. There is always the testimony of the cheque that appears out of nowhere after a person gives their last $5. If it strengthens their faith, good for them. Maybe God did it after all. I suspect its trying to make the exception to be the norm for everybody. I think that is what is known as the Prosperity Heresy, maybe someone can elaborate on that. In some churches, you can't be an elder without the 10%.

Then there are those who should tithe. But consider the family with two incomes and they bring in $25,000 a year. They have no savings and no investments, just bills. 10% of that is $2500.

Consider the same size family with a net income of $100,000. a year. That's $10,000 annual tithe. It's still 10%.

Now think about this. Is the family who is left with $90,000 making an equal sacrifice with the family who is left with $22,500??? But both families tithe 10%!

It gets more unbalanced when you factor in tax refunds.

Again, I am not against tithing. The 10% is a guideline. It comes from the Mosaic law that we are not bound to anyway. On the other hand St. Paul wrote ahead of his arrival for a collection so that his physical needs would not be a burden to any one host. Full time pastors need to eat. The worker is worthy of his wages. Churches have very large operating expenses. A community of believers should find ways to help their needy members and not burden them with man made laws and Jewish scruples. Finding ways to help needy or sick members is seeking the kingdom.

Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[Euphemia]

I remember the story about Elijah and the widow.

1 Kings 17:8-16
Then the word of the Lord came to him, saying, [SUP]9 [/SUP]“Arise, go to [SUP][[/SUP]Zarephath, which belongs to Sidon, and stay there. Behold, I have commanded a widow there to provide for you.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]So he set out and went to Zarephath, and when he came to the gate of the city, behold, a widow was there gathering sticks [for firewood]. He called out to her and said, “Please bring me a little water in a jar, so that I may drink.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]As she was going to get it, he called to her and said, “Please bring me a piece of bread in your hand.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]But she said, “As the Lord your God lives, I have no bread, only a handful of flour in the bowl and a little oil in the jar. See, I am gathering a few sticks so that I may go in and bake it for me and my son, that we may eat it [as our last meal] and die.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]Elijah said to her, “Do not fear; go and do as you have said. Just make me a little bread from it first and bring it out to me, and afterward you may make one for yourself and for your son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For this is what the Lord God of Israel says: ‘The bowl of flour shall not be exhausted nor shall the jar of oil be empty until the day that the Lord sends rain [again] on the face of the earth.’” [SUP]15 [/SUP]She went and did as Elijah said. And she and he and her household ate for many days. [SUP]16 [/SUP]The bowl of flour was not exhausted nor did the jar of oil become empty, in accordance the word of the Lord which He spoke through Elijah.


.

 

[Goodnewsman]

I think you may have missed my point. would Jesus have told them they "ought" to have done something if they shouldn't have? for instance you never find him telling anyone to keep the Sabbath day after he showed up. but here in matthew & luke Jesus said you ought to pay tithes.

also I think we have to be real careful in reading scripture and saying "that's not for me because Jesus wasn't talking to me"
can we then rip the book of Romans out? after all it wasn't written to you or me.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to do away with it but to fulfill it. the only way we can preach any O.T law is if Jesus brought it over in the N.T (for instance Deut. 22:5 says a woman shouldn't wear pants. that verse is supported in the N.T in 1 peter, & 2 timothy so I believe we have a right to preach against woman wearing men's clothing) I know that's another topic but it proves my point. Jesus brought tithing over into the N.T in at least 2 different places.

your absolutely right he did tell peter to pay taxes, but that's not all he said:

Mark 12:15-17 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

pay Caesar (taxes) but Jesus brought up "God's" part.

I don't think we should "pay" tithes but rather "give" them after all they don't belong to you, that's Gods part.

Proverbs 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

two options 1.) give God his tithes or 2.) steal them and I think we all know were thieves go

Malachi 3:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I seriously cannot understand why soooo many will not hear the truth.

Step one in discussing tithe.....define it.....and define who is required (yes...required) to give it.

I can save you a bunch of time if you want to be a real Christian and not an ignorant wannabe. A real Christian has direct access within the veil...to The Holiest of All.

For a Christian I just solved the discussion...cause never has anyone with access to The Holiest of All within the veil tithed to The High Priesthood....cause those with such access are the High Priesthood. Soooo many are soooo confused. My guess is that it is because they want to hold back a part, and only give a percentage.

Please stop being ignorant of this truth.
Ephesians 4:17-19Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, 18 having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: 19 who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Do you suppose Jesus did not teach us to uphold the Commonwealth....as members adopted into the High Priesthood?
Acts 2:44
And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Ephesians 2:11-13Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

2 Peter 2:12-17Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 and shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man’s voice forbad the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

 

[Goodnewsman]

Im sorry I didn't read all the post's. I was only making a point that tithing isn't just a mosaic law. the idea of tithing was here before moses. i believe we should tithe off everything that is an "increase" to us. Proverbs 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

 

[Goodnewsman]

a man that refuses to even think he could be wrong is like a man denying the existence of clouds, but refuses to look up. you seem like that kind of man from this post which seems very arrogant. anyone who is reaching for the truth is heading in the right direction. isn't that what we are all doing, reaching? even the apostle paul said "i have not apprehended"

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Im sorry I didn't read all the post's. I was only making a point that tithing isn't just a mosaic law. the idea of tithing was here before moses. i believe we should tithe off everything that is an "increase" to us. Proverbs 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:

You believe we should tithe? We being who? The ones without direct access to The Holiest of All? I agree...but I am not part of we then either.

 

[Goodnewsman]

what are you talking about? having access to the holiest of all? I believe in tithing 10% of the firstfruits of our increase because Jesus said twice in matthew and luke that we "ought" to do it.

tithing in the O.T wasn't just for the priest's it was for everybody. Jesus didn't say that we shouldn't tithe he said we ought to do it.

that's why I lock my truck doors at church, because some people I'm sure don't tithe and if they will steal from God, they will steal from me.

anyone reading this who go to church may want to consider doing the same. Lock your car/truck doors at church

 

[Jon4TheCross]

what are you talking about? having access to the holiest of all? I believe in tithing 10% of the firstfruits of our increase because Jesus said twice in matthew and luke that we "ought" to do it.

tithing in the O.T wasn't just for the priest's it was for everybody. Jesus didn't say that we shouldn't tithe he said we ought to do it.

that's why I lock my truck doors at church, because some people I'm sure don't tithe and if they will steal from God, they will steal from me.

anyone reading this who go to church may want to consider doing the same. Lock your car/truck doors at church

John 3:9-11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I already posted...read...it is a form of hearing.

Hear, O Israel.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Hebrews 9:7-9Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 the Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;