“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

[james57]

I told ya already, in chapter 8.

in chapter 7 paul is talking about the flesh, and what happens when we try to rely on the flesh. ( we will fail every time)

Chapter 8 is talking about how to defeat the flesh, by living in the spirit.

But that for some reason, is not good enough for you..

That is not my problem..

Come now, don't be shy about supporting your posts with the relevant scripture. You stated:

Paul, in the flesh, was a slave it to sin, He proved this in romans 7 and gal 5.

He made it clear. It was only in the spirit that he was made free of this lfe of sin, in romans 8 and gal 5.

He says it quite nicely in gal 5.

Gal 5:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. [SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Funny how thse exact same words are spoken by Paul in romans 7 and 8, only in much greater detail (thus it two two whole chapters to explain the same thing)


So where are the words spoken in rom 7:7-11&14-23 about walking in the spirit
You said you teach here, so teach, show us!

 

[Grace777x70]

Well said! Yes...we have a great salvation in our Lord..you turned to Him and His life in you causes you to live soberly in this world..to love Him and to love others....we repent constantly!

The way it happen with me personally was that I repented AFTER I was saved, not TO BE saved. I think that is a very important distinction. I repented out of gratitude and in shame once I could really see how bad I had been in rebellion, but it was and is in love and because I WANT to be in obedience to Him, not out of fear I'll lose salvation or anything like that. I think this gets confused in these debates, scratch that, FIGHTS often.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The way it happen with me personally was that I repented AFTER I was saved, not TO BE saved. I think that is a very important distinction. I repented out of gratitude and in shame once I could really see how bad I had been in rebellion, but it was and is in love and because I WANT to be in obedience to Him, not out of fear I'll lose salvation or anything like that. I think this gets confused in these debates, scratch that, FIGHTS often.

Impossible. Your change of mind at conversion from that of unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ is repentance. And every lie that the truth has exposed since then, that we let go of, is our continuing repentance.

 

[sydlit]

Gal.2:19-21 ~

For I through the law am dead to the law,
that I might live unto God.

~~~>I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but CHRIST lives IN me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh
I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD,
who LOVED me, and gave himself FOR me.<~~~

I do not frustrate the grace of God:
For if righteousness come by the law,
then Christ is dead in vain.

Merry Christmas

 

[Jimbone]

Merry Christmas is coming soon.

Best comment on this thread. Merry Christmas to you too man.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Gal.2:19-21 ~

For I through the law am dead to the law,
that I might live unto God.

~~~>I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live;
yet not I, but CHRIST lives IN me:
and the life which I now live in the flesh
I LIVE BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD,
who LOVED me, and gave himself FOR me.<~~~

I do not frustrate the grace of God:
For if righteousness come by the law,
then Christ is dead in vain.

Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you too sydlit.

"Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." Matthew 1:22-23

 

[james57]

It is hard to kick against the goads, James.

Apparantly not for some

 

[royalscot]

This is the covenant I will make with them after that time says the lord
I will write my laws in the minds
And place them on their hearts
Then he adds
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
Heb 10:16&17

how can you write on someone heart, if god can speaks direct to a believer. so the play on words, could also mean ways.
unless you define, what law, this verse is talking about. or what you mean by quoting this.


so what are these laws. if your quoted this, then tell us.

hebrew is wrote by a jewish person. not a gentile.

 

[Willie-T]

Impossible. Your change of mind at conversion from that of unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ is repentance. And every lie that the truth has exposed since then, that we let go of, is our continuing repentance.

People are so steeped in the erroneous thinking that "repentance" is feeling sorry about sinning, that they probably think you are speaking Swahili.

 

[sydlit]

Best comment on this thread. Merry Christmas to you too man.

God bless you and your beautiful family, Jimbone, may Jesus keep you at peace and joy-filled this Christmas. Ty, brother.

Merry Christmas to you too sydlit.

"Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." Matthew 1:22-23

And you as well, FreeNChrist, and throughout the new year. Praise the Lord.\○/

(and, ok , everybody, too. )

 

[royalscot]

Impossible. Your change of mind at conversion from that of unbelief to belief in Jesus Christ is repentance. And every lie that the truth has exposed since then, that we let go of, is our continuing repentance.

no it is not, there is a difference between believing in and repentance.

For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3

ware dose it say repent, to believe. and acts 10 (already quoted corneious never repented to get the holy spirit)

act 15 what law was give to a gentile.

.29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

not heirs because of repentance. etc

 

[eternally-gratefull]

People are so steeped in the erroneous thinking that "repentance" is feeling sorry about sinning, that they probably think you are speaking Swahili.

Got to feel that emotion, or it does not mean anything..

Otherwise, I have no idea why people would think such a thing.

(thats religion in a nutshell)

 

[Grace777x70]

You guys are going to get in trouble if you persist in holding a knife to the throats of those sacred cows!...just sayin'...

 

[james57]

People are so steeped in the erroneous thinking that "repentance" is feeling sorry about sinning, that they probably think you are speaking Swahili.

Can I ask you something Wilie?

I had a chat with someone yesterday. I told them I believed Jesus died for all my sins, past, present and future, they were all taken care of unto eternity. As long as I was following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the Gospel message though I am imperfect in the flesh, I should not burdened by my imperfections because Jesus died for them all, no condemnation. I am a work in progress, not perfect in the flesh

But I told the person if I wilfully step outside of following after the holy Spirit and commit what we can term wilfull, deliberate sin in such circumstances I ask God's forgiveness for grieving him through the spirit, much as I would seek a loved ones forgiveness for offending them. I stressed I did not do this in order to maintain my place in God's family for I knew that was secure.

The reply was. That is an insult to God(my seeking forgiveness as I explained)

I call that whacko grace.
If you disagree please say so, but over this I still would never change my mind

 

[royalscot]

you have to be in contact with truth. not law, so why are so many post in grained with sin or repent or turn away from sin. when grace is a gift, and if rom 8 v1 . dose it depend on law or a saviour.

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?Galatians 3

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen!..it all depends on our Saviour.

you have to be in contact with truth. not law, so why are so many post in grained with sin or repent or turn away from sin. when grace is a gift, and if rom 8 v1 . dose it depend on law or a saviour.

2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?Galatians 3

Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Willie-T]

I can see "emotionalism" in being convinced of our shortcomings after repenting (changing our minds about what and who really saves us).... and even feeling horrible about things we did, and still may do. But that is not "repentance". For cryin' out loud, you certainly do not BELIEVE continuing to do wrong is what you have changed your mind back to. Of course not! You still BELEIVE Jesus has saved you...... or at least I HOPE you do.... even if you are still weak, and have not been able to quit doing some things.

So, to "repent" again and again, simply (Biblically) means that on Monday you believe in Christ... on Tuesday you "repent", and believe something else.... then on Wednesday you change your mind again (repent), and now believe something else.

Either you REPENTED of believing in your old way of living to save you, and CHANGED YOUR MIND to, instead, follow Jesus, way back years ago... or you didn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I can see "emotionalism" in being convinced of our shortcomings after repenting (changing our minds about what and who really saves us).... and even feeling horrible about things we did, and still may do. But that is not "repentance". For cryin' out loud, you certainly do not BELIEVE continuing to do wrong is what you have changed your mind back to. Of course not! You still BELEIVE Jesus has saved you...... or at least I HOPE you do.... even if you are still weak, and have not been able to quit doing some things.

So, to "repent" again and again, simply (Biblically) means that on Monday you believe in Christ... on Tuesday you "repent", and believe something else.... then on Wednesday you change your mind again (repent), and now believe something else.

Either you REPENTED of believing in your old way of living to save you, and CHANGED YOUR MIND to, instead, follow Jesus, way back years ago... or you didn't.

I agree.

Emotions are not bad, But emotions can lead us astray, that was my point.

 

[Willie-T]

This was sung at my baptizing, almost 40 years ago...

I have decided to follow Jesus;
I have decided to follow Jesus;
I have decided to follow Jesus;
No turning back, no turning back.

Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
No turning back, no turning back.

The world behind me, the cross before me;
The world behind me, the cross before me;
The world behind me, the cross before me;
No turning back, no turning back.

Though none go with me, still I will follow;
Though none go with me, still I will follow;
Though none go with me, still I will follow;
No turning back, no turning back.

Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
No turning back, no turning back.

All I might add to the song is:

Though I may stumble
It changes nothing
My decision remains
No turning back.

 

[royalscot]

I can see "emotionalism" in being convinced of our shortcomings after repenting (changing our minds about what and who really saves us).... and even feeling horrible about things we did, and still may do. But that is not "repentance". For cryin' out loud, you certainly do not BELIEVE continuing to do wrong is what you have changed your mind back to. Of course not! You still BELEIVE Jesus has saved you...... or at least I HOPE you do.... even if you are still weak, and have not been able to quit doing some things.

So, to "repent" again and again, simply (Biblically) means that on Monday you believe in Christ... on Tuesday you "repent", and believe something else.... then on Wednesday you change your mind again (repent), and now believe something else.

Either you REPENTED of believing in your old way of living to save you, and CHANGED YOUR MIND to, instead, follow Jesus, way back years ago... or you didn't.

repent from what law. acts 15 never gave a gentile the law of moses. so if you go back to this law, religion has missed placed the law, with mixed up time in history. acts 2 no gentile was at acts 2.( act 10, is about 15-18 years later) act 15 later still.

the holy spirit is now you guide,teacher, etc
that what paul has been try to say. with fruits of the spirit. being one body. etc