“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

[PeterJens]

You tech performance based, But then say God went to sinners because they are honest.

The question I asked you is simple

Do you believe God calls us to have the same emotional life on the surface to that which is in our hearts?

Do you know the meaning of this question?

Because you skated so quickly over it, I suggest you do not.
That is the gulf between us, and it talks about different lives.

I share this because I come out of a schizophrenic family with deep issues on many psychological levels.
The Lord brought me through so much and brought me life, many have said they cannot believe I am who I am.

I have now a family and all I can say is astoundingly love, openness, truth, walking from the heart on your sleave is life.
But it takes time to see it. Now, however you argue with me, these are not ideas, this is history.

Jesus called us to be this real. But I suggest you do not know this, else you would be in agreement with me.
I cannot bridge such a gap, one day maybe you will understand. It has taken a life time to come to this position, so I doubt there is time or opportunity unless the Lord brings you understanding. I pray all those reading this might gain a better understanding because this was my aim in life, to bring openness and understanding to all who would listen.

Is this a performance based gospel? Unfortunately Jesus says that is His gospel.

Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matt 10:38


For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.
Matt 12:37

There are foundational markers of the fruit of your life that needs to be demonstrated.
It is not earning salvation, it is proof that it has taken place.

The Lord is saying, without fruit you have nothing, so be sure to sow the live seed.

 

[PeterJens]

takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

There is a vast difference between opposing philosophy and opposing biology. Biology teaches us how we work.
Jesus gives us the building blocks but many never put this into action. Some let it lie dormant, yet the truth is just sitting there but they are blind to take action.

I am not surprised at those who claim to be open to the truth run to religion or verses rather than face what is before them.
It is hard to face oneself, there is no more difficult place.

But this is my challenge to you. Until you do all is vanity. If you had responded I have learnt this and walked in it I would have said Amen.

There is no more that I can help you with, because you shut off the very knowledge that would help set you free.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oh brother.....you are persistent..God love ya'....

There is a vast difference between opposing philosophy and opposing biology. Biology teaches us how we work.
Jesus gives us the building blocks but many never put this into action. Some let it lie dormant, yet the truth is just sitting there but they are blind to take action.

I am not surprised at those who claim to be open to the truth run to religion or verses rather than face what is before them.
It is hard to face oneself, there is no more difficult place.

But this is my challenge to you. Until you do all is vanity. If you had responded I have learnt this and walked in it I would have said Amen.

There is no more that I can help you with, because you shut off the very knowledge that would help set you free.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The question I asked you is simple

Do you believe God calls us to have the same emotional life on the surface to that which is in our hearts?

Do you know the meaning of this question?


Because you skated so quickly over it, I suggest you do not.
That is the gulf between us, and it talks about different lives.

No I did not skate over it, I responded to what I assumed was your explanation of it. and then asked you a question in return.

Our emotions do follow our hearts, Thats why we can USUALLY figure out who is being real and who is just playing around and just walking through the motions.

However, there are some very good actors out there, So even this would not be a very good judge of ones true character.

I share this because I come out of a schizophrenic family with deep issues on many psychological levels.
The Lord brought me through so much and brought me life, many have said they cannot believe I am who I am.

I have seen people who do not even believe in God say the same thing,

Again, this is not a good indicator of things..

I have now a family and all I can say is astoundingly love, openness, truth, walking from the heart on your sleave is life.
But it takes time to see it. Now, however you argue with me, these are not ideas, this is history.

I am arguing your gospel. not your way of life, we have not even got there yet.

Jesus called us to be this real. But I suggest you do not know this, else you would be in agreement with me.
I cannot bridge such a gap, one day maybe you will understand. It has taken a life time to come to this position, so I doubt there is time or opportunity unless the Lord brings you understanding. I pray all those reading this might gain a better understanding because this was my aim in life, to bring openness and understanding to all who would listen.

How can I judge your gospel based on this?

Again, I have seen non believers in God do this, are you any better then then are?

Lets talk the gospel. not how well people can change certain things.

Is this a performance based gospel? Unfortunately Jesus says that is His gospel.

No, He said he came to give a gospel of grace (non performance based) not of works (performance based)

The law was performance based, which is why it could never save anyone, That is God standard. If you want to work your way to heaven, you have to fulfill the law. If not, your left with Grace..

Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matt 10:38


For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.
Matt 12:37

This is not the gospel. this is telling us what will be different about those who are saved, and those who are not.

But again, The world can ACT like believers, They can speak good words. Not do certain sins, and appear to be walking with God. But not be any more saved than an athiest.

Jesus says this when he tells us people will come to him, and use all their great works in Jesus name to show for why they deserve to get to heaven, And jesus will say depart, for I never knew you, you continued to walk in sin (fall short of my glorious standard)

which if we are honest, All of us will have fallen short of Gods standard when we meet God face to face. the ones who will be saved, will be the ones HE SAVED, not the ones who tried to save themselves.. by following a performance based gospel of works.

There are foundational markers of the fruit of your life that needs to be demonstrated.
It is not earning salvation, it is proof that it has taken place.

The Lord is saying, without fruit you have nothing, so be sure to sow the live seed.

His children will have fruit. Whether you see it or not.

His fake children may seem like they have fruit, but they have non, they have religion, which is not fruit, it is filth disgised as fruit.

now, can you answer my question"

You teach performance based, But then say God went to sinners because they are honest.

How can you be honest in a performance based system, Especially when the bible you are following tells you all these things which you must do. and you can not possibly obey them all..??

 

[PeterJens]

Dear reader,

Imagine thinking is like going round in a maze. A point is being made along a line of argument. Now the reader either can block off that line of thinking or see where it leads. Brain washed people have every line of their argument blocked off. So if a point is raised it is stopped not because it is wrong but because it does not fit their model.

This creates this loop of self understanding, which can never be broken.
Grace7x77 has fallen into this category.

The principle of democracy and freedom is in every position there is a self consistant truth. If you want to understand people or gain an hope of ultimate truth you need to pursue these avenues without restriction to understand what it is and how it works.

The super-spiritual are often those who have left this world, and live in some self invented world.
Unfortunately walking with Jesus is difficult because it is a complex puzzle, which are many points does not seem to add up, but when it does not you know it is you who have made a mistake and not the Lord.

Grace7x77 knows he can never be wrong and walks in perfection. If not he has just contradicted himself and not answered the points I have made.

I know he is very talented in defending his ideas, but as I have stated before, it is the Lord he is opposing.

 

[james57]

There is a vast difference between opposing philosophy and opposing biology. Biology teaches us how we work.
Jesus gives us the building blocks but many never put this into action. Some let it lie dormant, yet the truth is just sitting there but they are blind to take action.

I am not surprised at those who claim to be open to the truth run to religion or verses rather than face what is before them.
It is hard to face oneself, there is no more difficult place.

But this is my challenge to you. Until you do all is vanity. If you had responded I have learnt this and walked in it I would have said Amen.

There is no more that I can help you with, because you shut off the very knowledge that would help set you free.

These people are only preaching half a message at best. Charles spurgeon said you are given the faith to believe, but Jesus will not believe for you, you must exercise that faith. To these people that would be a work and make you legalistic!

It is a wonderful thing to know that you are under no condemnation as a Christian, praise God for that, but the Christian has responsibilities, they don't like those bible verses being brought forth.
You have to resist the flesh and follow after the spirit. The spirit is there to help you, but you still have to actively follow hi and resist the flesh. If you don't you remain a babe in the faith, no more. What is the result?
You fanatically insist Paul is speaking of his Christian life in Rom 7 for that is all you can relate to. Your easy believism with no responsibility for yourself can take you nowhere else.
I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.
It is childish and immature behaviour, and portrays nothing more, than at best very immature Christianity.

 

[PeterJens]

No, He said he came to give a gospel of grace (non performance based) not of works (performance based)

I am sorry. Please show me a verse where this is true.
Jesus came to plant His word in our hearts, where it is to take root and we are to obey it.

Now that is performance based. If you do not obey it, you do not know Jesus.

Everything else in your logic is irrelevant if you cannot show this to be a lie.

Now non-christians equally found the key principles to life and it works. Are you suggesting therefore it must be a lie?
Jesus bring the ingredient that we are loved. Now love is so adaptable, people can fuel their existance on human love, but all I have found of examples of this is failure.

Now I stand on Jesus's words, but you deny them. As a christian that is sin, worthy of judgement. Or did you not read the small print in following Jesus.

At the end of the sermon on the mount how do you explain putting the words into action?
Or is this just Jesus joking and being sarcastic?

 

[FreeNChrist]

These people are only preaching half a message at best. Charles spurgeon said you are given the faith to believe, but Jesus will not believe for you, you must exercise that faith. To these people that would be a work and make you legalistic!

It is a wonderful thing to know that you are under no condemnation as a Christian, praise God for that, but the Christian has responsibilities, they don't like those bible verses being brought forth.
You have to resist the flesh and follow after the spirit. The spirit is there to help you, but you still have to actively follow hi and resist the flesh. If you don't you remain a babe in the faith, no more. What is the result?
You fanatically insist Paul is speaking of his Christian life in Rom 7 for that is all you can relate to. Your easy believism with no responsibility for yourself can take you nowhere else.
I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.
It is childish and immature behaviour, and portrays nothing more, than at best very immature Christianity.

On the contrary "these people" are the very ones who continually hammer home that the life we live is lived by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Grace777x70]

I was "obeying" the scripture that says ..."See to it"..that no one takes you captive


See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

I have no interest in your philosophy or the traditions that are sacred to you. I am interested in living "according to Christ"...and what He has done for us....and it's His life that lives through and in us.


I will tell you again my precious brother...I'm not interested in your philosophy nor in your attacks on the gospel of the grace of Christ or on those that do believe in Christ's finished work. I will not be offended no matter what you say so you are wasting your time appealing to the readers....

I love you brother!....you are greatly blessed and highly favored and deeply loved..and you are in Christ our Lord. He is the One who qualifies you for all things. You are the Father's favorite!!!...talk with Him...He is inside of you with Christ. He is deeply in love with you! He sees you spotless and blameless in His Son. We have a great salvation but it is only in Him.

There is no real life outside of Him. Choose His life!

He is the Way , the truth and the Life.

I bless you......

Dear reader,

Imagine thinking is like going round in a maze. A point is being made along a line of argument. Now the reader either can block off that line of thinking or see where it leads. Brain washed people have every line of their argument blocked off. So if a point is raised it is stopped not because it is wrong but because it does not fit their model.

This creates this loop of self understanding, which can never be broken.
Grace7x77 has fallen into this category.

The principle of democracy and freedom is in every position there is a self consistant truth. If you want to understand people or gain an hope of ultimate truth you need to pursue these avenues without restriction to understand what it is and how it works.

The super-spiritual are often those who have left this world, and live in some self invented world.
Unfortunately walking with Jesus is difficult because it is a complex puzzle, which are many points does not seem to add up, but when it does not you know it is you who have made a mistake and not the Lord.

Grace7x77 knows he can never be wrong and walks in perfection. If not he has just contradicted himself and not answered the points I have made.

I know he is very talented in defending his ideas, but as I have stated before, it is the Lord he is opposing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These people are only preaching half a message at best. Charles spurgeon said you are given the faith to believe, but Jesus will not believe for you, you must exercise that faith. To these people that would be a work and make you legalistic!

It is a wonderful thing to know that you are under no condemnation as a Christian, praise God for that, but the Christian has responsibilities, they don't like those bible verses being brought forth.
You have to resist the flesh and follow after the spirit. The spirit is there to help you, but you still have to actively follow hi and resist the flesh. If you don't you remain a babe in the faith, no more. What is the result?
You fanatically insist Paul is speaking of his Christian life in Rom 7 for that is all you can relate to. Your easy believism with no responsibility for yourself can take you nowhere else.
I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.
It is childish and immature behaviour, and portrays nothing more, than at best very immature Christianity.

No

The people you condemn teach the whole message

1. We are alienated from God with our sin
2. God so loved us he came to take our penalty and restore us to a relationshi with him
3. If we repent and trust him, he will give us this NEW LIFE in him

Those who are saved, will have a changed life, Will have a reason to live, Will do the very things that Peter and those like him say MUST BE DONE naturally, because they are new creatures. their life has been crucified with Christ, and they have been made new.

Grace teaches a new nature in Christ

LEGALSIM teaches this new life in christ must be earned, it takes work, it is hard, and can be lost.

So which side are you one here? I wil be honest, I am starting to doubt..

Grace does not teach licentiousness.. It also does not teach legalism.

[SUP]4[/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6[/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

John does not studer here he is clear and consise.

1. A sinner (one who practices or lives in sin) has NEVER KNOWN GOD' nor have they ever SEEN GOD (who he is)

2. A child of GOD DOES NOT LIVE IN SIN, HE CAN NOT, FOR HE IS BORN OF GOD.

so why do people ignore this and claim a child of God can live in sin, and if a perosn lives in sin, they ever knew God. when paul says the opposite.

 

[james57]

No

The people you condemn teach the whole message

1. We are alienated from God with our sin
2. God so loved us he came to take our penalty and restore us to a relationshi with him
3. If we repent and trust him, he will give us this NEW LIFE in him

Those who are saved, will have a changed life, Will have a reason to live, Will do the very things that Peter and those like him say MUST BE DONE naturally, because they are new creatures. their life has been crucified with Christ, and they have been made new.

Grace teaches a new nature in Christ

LEGALSIM teaches this new life in christ must be earned, it takes work, it is hard, and can be lost.

So which side are you one here? I wil be honest, I am starting to doubt..

Grace does not teach licentiousness.. It also does not teach legalism.

[SUP]4[/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6[/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

John does not studer here he is clear and consise.

1. A sinner (one who practices or lives in sin) has NEVER KNOWN GOD' nor have they ever SEEN GOD (who he is)

2. A child of GOD DOES NOT LIVE IN SIN, HE CAN NOT, FOR HE IS BORN OF GOD.

so why do people ignore this and claim a child of God can live in sin, and if a perosn lives in sin, they ever knew God. when paul says the opposite.

nOTHING OF IMPORTANCE TO READ HERE, TIME TO MOVE ON

 

[james57]

On the contrary "these people" are the very ones who continually hammer home that the life we live is lived by faith in Jesus Christ.

I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.

 

[PeterJens]

I'm not interested in your philosophy nor in your attacks on the gospel of the grace of Christ or on those that do believe in Christ's finished work.

As I said Grace7x77 confirms his closed mind. He has arrived, and though scripture contradicts him, the Holy Spirit convicts him of sin, he is called to repent, to humble himself, to walk in obedience, this is all wrong.

God has given him over to a spirit of blindness and self delusion.

If you want to look up in scripture, the Lord does this all the time when people get stubborn. The inevitable is lostness, yet they hold all the words of the gospel but it does not gel. I suppose this is the true consequence of free choice, and the deception of the heart. You know it is real because everything becomes so complex and to explain themselves it takes forever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry. Please show me a verse where this is true.
Jesus came to plant His word in our hearts, where it is to take root and we are to obey it.

Please show me where I said jesus came to save us so we can sin?

Now that is performance based. If you do not obey it, you do not know Jesus.

No, If it is performance based, it is of works, and we can save ourselfs.

stop trying to rely on yourself. and start relying gon Jesus, he can save you..

Everything else in your logic is irrelevant if you cannot show this to be a lie.

I already did, Your no different than a pharisee trying to add works of the law to Grace, You just added different works, or a mix of law and other works, or whatever,

But your still teaching works.

Grace and perfrmance do not mix. They are apposed to each other. this is what the word says.

Now non-christians equally found the key principles to life and it works. Are you suggesting therefore it must be a lie?
Jesus bring the ingredient that we are loved. Now love is so adaptable, people can fuel their existance on human love, but all I have found of examples of this is failure.

Now I stand on Jesus's words, but you deny them. As a christian that is sin, worthy of judgement. Or did you not read the small print in following Jesus.

At the end of the sermon on the mount how do you explain putting the words into action?
Or is this just Jesus joking and being sarcastic?

Gods children PUT THE WORDS IN ACTIONS''


Your gospel states one must put them into action first if they want to be saved,

Cause and effect are apposed.

God is my cause and effect

Your performance the law, or whatever is your cause and affect.

I will do what God says (although not perfectly, I would be stupid to think I am perfect)

You may do as God says, and may lose salvation if you do not..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

nOTHING OF IMPORTANCE TO READ HERE, TIME TO MOVE ON

No of course not

You can continue to LIE about what I believe, and prove you have no understanding of it

Go ahead dude keep proving you are the one doing the very thing you keep condemning others of doing.

 

[james57]

No of course not

You can continue to LIE about what I believe, and prove you have no understanding of it

Go ahead dude keep proving you are the one doing the very thing you keep condemning others of doing.

How about showing us where exactly in Rom7:7-11&14-23 Paul goes into detail about Gal5:16&17
That does include walking in the spirit by the way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.

so amazingly, You believe EXACTY THE WAY I DO.

yet you judge me, and condemn me, and are sticking up for people WHO WOULD SAY YOU TEACH HYPERGRACE..

which is what is so amazing.

as for the bolded part. Can you please show who said this, I missed it, He is not correct at all..

If we do not come to god and confess our sins, and also to brothers or sisters in Christ. We will never be healed of that sin..

THATS why we confess.. Not to keep salvation, but because we need to be open, not closed, and not hide sin..

 

[FreeNChrist]

I told one of them yesterday, I believed Jesus died for all my sins at calvary, past, present and future. I was forgiven unto eternal life by what Christ did for me. I told him that the Christian is a work in progress all their life and as long as they are following after the holy Spirit in the truth of the gospel message, although they are not perfect in the flesh, they should feel no condemnation for their sins, for Jesus died to take away their condemnation. They are not under law but under grace
However, I then told the person I believed I wilfully step outside of this work in progress/following after the spirit and commit wifull deliberate sin, I ask God to forgive me for grieving him through the spirit, not because my eternal security is threatened, but because, as I would a loved one I seek their forgiveness for offending them.
Of course he told me in such circumstances I was insulting God. If he was led of the holy spirit in the truth, he would have rejoiced-according to his so called beliefs in a brother believing in eternal security in Christ.
He simply showed he was not being led of the holy spirit uut the egotistical mind wishing to proclaim he and a coulple of others know the real truth of grace and others need to come to their knowledge of the faith.

It is hard to kick against the goads, James.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How about showing us where exactly in Rom7:7-11&14-23 Paul goes into detail about Gal5:16&17
That does include walking in the spirit by the way

I told ya already, in chapter 8.

in chapter 7 paul is talking about the flesh, and what happens when we try to rely on the flesh. ( we will fail every time)

Chapter 8 is talking about how to defeat the flesh, by living in the spirit.

But that for some reason, is not good enough for you..

That is not my problem..

 

[Jimbone]

Ya'll need to "repent" ....bunch of heretics!!...if you don't believe the muppets will make heaven too...

The way it happen with me personally was that I repented AFTER I was saved, not TO BE saved. I think that is a very important distinction. I repented out of gratitude and in shame once I could really see how bad I had been in rebellion, but it was and is in love and because I WANT to be in obedience to Him, not out of fear I'll lose salvation or anything like that. I think this gets confused in these debates, scratch that, FIGHTS often.