“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
How can future sins be forgiven? This language is wrong because it makes righteousness irrelevant. If you are forgiven whether you are good or bad, why change or why even believe it is needed. The reason for following Jesus is because the Kingdom of Heaven is a world of righteousness, love, joy, justice and truth.
See here is your problem .

You THINK you are righteous. (and you get mad because people call you a modern day Pharisee?? Now you know why)

According the God, You are not righteous. Righteousness is not irreverent, it is IMPOSSIBLE.

That's what Grace is, We are forgiven BECAUSE WE HAVE FALLEN SHORT OF GODS GLORY. We must be given Gods rightgeousness, This will make us right with god (justified) and start us on the way to sanctification.

There is no good in us, Until you realise this, Grace is meaningless to you. and you will never find it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Now you moved away from the past tense that your sins were forgiven to are forgiven. Sins are forgiven right here right now. It's an abiding state of forgiveness. See what I mean? You guys are not being consistent.
[h=1]1 John 2:12King James Version (KJV)[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Forgiven - apheontai - verb, perfect, passive, indicative, third person plural finite verb.

Just take the text for what it says, and stop trying to read into it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
If future sin is not forgiven.

We fall back under law for all future sin, because it means Christ, (who died in the past) did not cover those sins when he died.

To say all sin is not forgive is a dangerous idea that has eternal consequences which will not benefit one human soul. it condemns them ALL to hell
 
Nov 22, 2015
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That;s right EG....I will back you up on that..

1 John 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name's sake.

have been forgiven = perfect passive

perfect =
The perfect tense expresses perfective action. Perfective action involves a present state which has resulted from a past action. The present state is a continuing state; the past action is a completed action. It is continuously in the present

passive = mood = action is happening to you....you are not doing it

Without a doubt this verse says that the sins are forgiven from a past action that remains in a continuous state and that was put on them....not something they did


Brethren ...we have a great salvation in our Lord!




1 John 2:12King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Forgiven - apheontai - verb, perfect, passive, indicative, third person plural finite verb.

Just take the text for what it says, and stop trying to read into it.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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maybe this is the problem..

Righteousness is not a reward for our good behavior!


( now they will say..see..they want to sin all they want...it's endless :eek:)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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Hello all,

Regarding our need for repentance when we sin and indeed our hearts should always be in a repentant state, I submit the following:

"Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place."

"Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

"Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."

All of the above are of course from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. These are established churches that Jesus is rebuking and warning to come to repentance. Suffice to say, these warnings and rebukes are to all believers as well as to those seven churches of that time and therefore, we too should have repentant hearts. Considering the above scriptures, it becomes obvious that whatever sins we have wrestled with throughout our own lives requires repentance beyond our original repentance when we first came to Christ or should I say, when he first called us.
 
Feb 24, 2015
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What I find funny about "confessing sins" is that we usually don't really confess the real sin.

Example:..I go to the store and steal food ( I supposedly confess that I stole food to God and He forgives me..)

The "sin" of stealing the food is just the "fruit" of my real sin....which is....I do not trust in my loving heavenly Father.
What you are saying is simply wrong. The sin is stealing the food. You have created hyper-sins which are so extreme you can invent them over everything. I cannot walk on water because I cannot trust God enough so I sin.
Name anything related to trust and link it to the word sin, and you have made everyone evil.

In your world there can never be holiness or righteousness. This is insane and evil. It is condemning people using your own hyper-law to justify your hyper-grace. The reason why God gave the law was to stop people like you doing exactly this or to a lesser extent the pharisees and their interpretations, which are mild compared to yours.

"What I find funny " is blasphemy. There never has been anything funny about sin. You mock God and His judgement, Jesus and the cross. You have no fear or sense of reality.

The point I made about relationships and hurt you have missed 100% Have you ever hurt someone and said sorry to them?

I do not think so. Please do not call me brother, because I am not a brother to your version of faith and condemnation.

Now these things matter to me. I will tell you why. Part of maturity is to recognise boundaries of where you end as an individual and where another begins. It shows respect and recognises the rights of others, what they are saying and doing.
If you want a healthy family, and I do, you have to be constantly aware of where people are, how love is expressed and what is going on around them.

As you seem unaware of that or the seriousness of this discussion, I realise you are disfunctional and incapable of understanding these simple realities. It makes sense as you blur action and reaction, hurt and making up after a relationship failure.

So I say beware anyone who deals with people such as these, because nothing is clear, it is all a fuzzy acceptance and undefined world, where good and evil never separate. So wealth and health are here, celebrity and success in the worlds eyes and no morality or sacrificial love or denial of self. There is no law because that creates certainty and clarity when all that is wanted is appeased consciences without conviction of sin.

You also lie constantly. When you say you repent all the time, you do not mean it biblically but in your changed mind idea.
So we will never agree, and it has convinced me how superior you feel, how lost you are. The darkness in your heart is so bad none of what I am writing will mean anything to you, which is very sad. But I do not share to be liked or accepted, just as the Lord leads.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Beautiful scriptures..now put "change your mind" into all those verses and you are good to go.

God repented in scripture too..so whatever our version of repentance is..put in on God..does God "turn from His sins"?..is He sorry for all His sins?

New Covenant repentance is different from the Old Covenant way..

We do not like sin because it does destroy people..it is against our new nature in Christ and we cringe away from it. We do not embrace sin ..no matter how many lies are told about people that believe in the grace of God..


Hello all,

Regarding our need for repentance when we sin and indeed our hearts should always be in a repentant state, I submit the following:

"Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place."

"Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

"Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."

All of the above are of course from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. These are established churches that Jesus is rebuking and warning to come to repentance. Suffice to say, these warnings and rebukes are to all believers as well as to those seven churches of that time and therefore, we too should have repentant hearts. Considering the above scriptures, it becomes obvious that whatever sins we have wrestled with throughout our own lives requires repentance beyond our original repentance when we first came to Christ or should I say, when he first called us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The Lord bless you!..everything is ok...He is mighty to save all of us!


What you are saying is simply wrong. The sin is stealing the food. You have created hyper-sins which are so extreme you can invent them over everything. I cannot walk on water because I cannot trust God enough so I sin.
Name anything related to trust and link it to the word sin, and you have made everyone evil.

In your world there can never be holiness or righteousness. This is insane and evil. It is condemning people using your own hyper-law to justify your hyper-grace. The reason why God gave the law was to stop people like you doing exactly this or to a lesser extent the pharisees and their interpretations, which are mild compared to yours.

"What I find funny " is blasphemy. There never has been anything funny about sin. You mock God and His judgement, Jesus and the cross. You have no fear or sense of reality.

The point I made about relationships and hurt you have missed 100% Have you ever hurt someone and said sorry to them?

I do not think so. Please do not call me brother, because I am not a brother to your version of faith and condemnation.

Now these things matter to me. I will tell you why. Part of maturity is to recognise boundaries of where you end as an individual and where another begins. It shows respect and recognises the rights of others, what they are saying and doing.
If you want a healthy family, and I do, you have to be constantly aware of where people are, how love is expressed and what is going on around them.

As you seem unaware of that or the seriousness of this discussion, I realise you are disfunctional and incapable of understanding these simple realities. It makes sense as you blur action and reaction, hurt and making up after a relationship failure.

So I say beware anyone who deals with people such as these, because nothing is clear, it is all a fuzzy acceptance and undefined world, where good and evil never separate. So wealth and health are here, celebrity and success in the worlds eyes and no morality or sacrificial love or denial of self. There is no law because that creates certainty and clarity when all that is wanted is appeased consciences without conviction of sin.

You also lie constantly. When you say you repent all the time, you do not mean it biblically but in your changed mind idea.
So we will never agree, and it has convinced me how superior you feel, how lost you are. The darkness in your heart is so bad none of what I am writing will mean anything to you, which is very sad. But I do not share to be liked or accepted, just as the Lord leads.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
Hello all,

Regarding our need for repentance when we sin and indeed our hearts should always be in a repentant state, I submit the following:

"Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place."

"Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

"Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."

"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."

All of the above are of course from the letters to the seven churches in Revelation. These are established churches that Jesus is rebuking and warning to come to repentance. Suffice to say, these warnings and rebukes are to all believers as well as to those seven churches of that time and therefore, we too should have repentant hearts. Considering the above scriptures, it becomes obvious that whatever sins we have wrestled with throughout our own lives requires repentance beyond our original repentance when we first came to Christ or should I say, when he first called us.
Good, clear witness that can't be denied. Well except by those who can't believe it because of enslavement to another spirit that will teach them how to spin and weave.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Here are some more scriptures on the forgiveness of God thru the precious blood of our Lord!..just for you EG..:)


Ephesians 1:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

We have redemption = present continuous action...so this means we have present continuous forgiveness of our sins...and look...that hyper-grace stuff shows up again!...it's all according to our loving Father's grace that He has given to us in Christ our Lord.

Colossians 1:13-14 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Same thing here too...present continuous action = forgiveness of sins


Redemption!..we have been bought with the precious Blood of Jesus... Let's honor His work!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Ok..now..just so that ya'll don't read "stuff" into what was not said....

Now...just so that there is no mistake...we do not need to confess in order to receive forgiveness...and we can talk to our Father and Lord about the sins we do ..

I acknowledge them all the time..I say " Father that was a sin..that was not who I am in Christ. thank you for the blood of your Son and my Lord Jesus that took away my sin..I thank you that Jesus is my righteousness!..He is my holiness!..I love you!"

The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces me I am the righteousness of God in Him.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 (NASB)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
[SUP]31 [/SUP] so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.


We can talk to our Lord in whatever manner we want. But I believe we need to honor what His Son ahs done for us by "confessing" the truth of His finished work for us!

We have a good, good Father and a mighty salvation in our Lord Jesus!
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Beautiful scriptures..now put "change your mind" into all those verses and you are good to go.

God repented in scripture too..so whatever our version of repentance is..put in on God..does God "turn from His sins"?..is He sorry for all His sins?

New Covenant repentance is different from the Old Covenant way..

We do not like sin because it does destroy people..it is against our new nature in Christ and we cringe away from it. We do not embrace sin ..no matter how many lies are told about people that believe in the grace of God..
This needs elaboration through scripture (not through some special knowledge privy only to you and other initiates who have the real deal).

Certainly it's not opinion stated as fact!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Oh...I said I was sorry just the other day..I say sorry a lot when I do things to hurt people..

It's obvious you just don't get what we are trying to tell you.....pray for me.....it's ok...everything will be fine....keep your faith...He will be with you all the way. He is faithful to you!

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I have shown this a few times already..and this is just a waste of time as no matter what scriptures one uses....it will not be received....my fingers are getting tired of writing the same stuff to you...lol

Just call me a heretic and ..my all time favorite one you called me was.. "a neo-gnostic Hyper-GreaseyGracists"

I am still laughing at that one!...you are a lot of fun!...:eek:


This needs elaboration through scripture (not through some special knowledge privy only to you and other initiates who have the real deal).

Certainly it's not opinion stated as fact!
 
Sep 4, 2012
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692
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I have shown this a few times already..and this is just a waste of time as no matter what scriptures one uses....it will not be received....my fingers are getting tired of writing the same stuff to you...lol

Just call me a heretic and ..my all time favorite one you called me was.. "a neo-gnostic Hyper-GreaseyGracists"

I am still laughing at that one!...you are a lot of fun!...:eek:
I repent. I need to correct that to "neo-gnostic Emergent Hyper-Greasy-Gracist".
 
Jan 27, 2013
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You don't call all those rescuing and saving and feeding miracles in the OT, "Grace?" The old Testament is chock full of "grace."
how many miracles are you talking about in this day and age. (strange this is 2015,)

go s to show once again , you missed the point.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Praise God.....now you are using "repent" as it meant in the greek world...LOL...you are so much fun!..you are a complete blessing from God to me!

I repent. I need to correct that to "neo-gnostic Emergent Hyper-Greasy-Gracist".
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Yes Jesus died for all our sins. Past, present and future, no righteousness by keeping the law. Wonderful!

But that doesn't mean you are free not to say sorry when you err
That doesn't give you the right not to ask forgiveness when you turn away from looking to your saviour and commit what we term wilfull deliberate sin.
That doesn't give you the right to have no conscience when you grieve the holy spirit by such sin.

There are consequences to following after the flesh rather than the spirit. If you have been truly born again you will make yourself miserable by doing so, for God will not be mocked

And the christian life is not always was and dandy because Jesus died for your sins.
Trials temptations, persecutions will all be yours if you are a true follower of Christ.

Easy believism is not biblical.
It is not just one big easy ride where the individual can abdicate all responsibility from themself because they lice by faith in Christ and the sanctification of the spirit
 
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Feb 24, 2015
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It is an interesting proposition. If God forgives everything you do, your failings, your miss-understanding there is no bite in an argument because you are accepted.

Now in most arguments people have a real foundation built on a set of foundations.
It appears this is filtered bible verses without any desire to see anything from any other angle. This is what I call brainwashing.

I am sure grace7x777 cannot relate to this verse

Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
Phil 2:12

The old and new testament are full of prophets, followers of Jesus who died because of dishonour while following the Lord.
David even got angry when the ark was carried in appropriately and someone touched it because it was almost falling and were struck dead. God has not changed. Everyday people die at His will. Everyday people are condemned to Hell fire because they treat the things of God with no respect and live in constant sin.

I fear for the soul of any believer who walks such a road, because Gods grace goes only so far, and judgement falls.

Judas was very close to Jesus and still betrayed him. No christian can be seen as innocent and incapable of turning aside and betraying the very commitments and truths He laid on their hearts.