“Confronting the Error of Hyper-Grace” – a response to Michael Brown

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crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#141
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#141
popeye said:
I am watching the prince vid now. I see nothing wrong with it.
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The video I was referring to with EG was the Crowder video not Prince.

Prince got personal faith mixed up with the teaching (faith) handed down by the apostles.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#142
#142
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Irenaeus was there to describe what he witnessed and you weren't. How can you say he "got some things wrong".

People that know grace isn't deserved know that because they know they're sinful. That is the antithesis of the Emergent mvmt, in which the idea of Hyper-GreasyGrace finds a welcome home.
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Okie dokie smokie.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#143
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#143
Hi ladylynn...Ahwatukee just posted the so-called definition of hyper-grace from someplace..not that it was his words in all fairness.

You are right about people seeing definitions or seeing someone put down something and getting the "wrong" impression. everyone should look at both sides of the coin and come to their own conclusions and faith.

What stirs me is when people say something negative in such a way that makes it seem that it is wrong but in fact it is being mis-represented . We grace-based believers are very much accustomed to those kinds of attacks and it will continue too...it's just the nature of the beast!.....:)

ladylynn said:
I know many of us tend to not read links especially long ones, but seriously, if we want to know what is really being said by each other., the time must be taken to read. What else are we hear for but to sit down.. 'come let us reason together'

I know many of you here on CC who are against this idea of hyper-grace and you are all reasonable awesome Christians. Any reasonable Christian would turn from what you posted here Ahwatukee about the brief description of those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is; I certainly would too. But that is not describing what I believe or any of those who I'm in agreement with here.

But if we don't take the time to actually read what is being said we will not come to any understanding., The article is excellent and touches on so many of the points you mentioned here Ahwatukee and the issues so many believers are concerned about but without really listening to what is being said., you will for sure run off yelling "HERETICAL!! RUN FROM THIS MESSAGE FROM HELL"

I would encourage each of us to read what the other posts so that we don't run off with only half an answer and for sure., if you don't hear the rest you don't hear the whole.
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P

popeye

Guest
#144
#144
ladylynn said:
I know many of us tend to not read links especially long ones, but seriously, if we want to know what is really being said by each other., the time must be taken to read. What else are we hear for but to sit down.. 'come let us reason together'

I know many of you here on CC who are against this idea of hyper-grace and you are all reasonable awesome Christians. Any reasonable Christian would turn from what you posted here Ahwatukee about the brief description of those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is; I certainly would too. But that is not describing what I believe or any of those who I'm in agreement with here.

But if we don't take the time to actually read what is being said we will not come to any understanding., The article is excellent and touches on so many of the points you mentioned here Ahwatukee and the issues so many believers are concerned about but without really listening to what is being said., you will for sure run off yelling "HERETICAL!! RUN FROM THIS MESSAGE FROM HELL"

I would encourage each of us to read what the other posts so that we don't run off with only half an answer and for sure., if you don't hear the rest you don't hear the whole.
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Some do not even realize they are actually on the same page,and much of the "doctrinal" dimensions overlap
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#145
#145
Grace777x70 said:
The Father was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. He had sin put on Jesus for our sakes. All sin was placed on Jesus..which is why all judgment came on Him as well.

The My God, My God was the Son of Man in Him identifying with us when sin came on Him. Like us, He felt the feeling of separation and guilt and being left alone..forsaken by God...but it wasn't true..He was just "voicing" what we as humanity cry out.

But Jesus came back to the Son of God at the end and said..Father..forgive them..into Your hands I commit My spirit...beautiful picture of our Lord's love for us and the Father staying with Him through it all.
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God can not deal with sin period. When God put your an my sin on Jesus, God could not look on Jesus, because God can not look on sin.

If Jesus did not pay the penalty (separation) for my sin, I am still dead in my sin.

Jesus said it was finished before he gave up the ghost for a reason. the penalty of sin was paid for. His fellowship with the father had been restored. His work on earth was done, and he completed his mission.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#146
#146
eternally-gratefull said:
Yeah and who here teaches it?

Again, you have not shown me one person who teaches you can be a hear of the word and not a doer. and live however you want..

So you make accusations, where is your proof?

I do not know about anyone else. But I am getting sick of falsly being accused of teaching something I would never even think of teaching
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I know., it gets frustrating that anyone here would even think we would say "sin all you want., have no love, have no responsibility to be like Christ., trample the blood of Jesus and consume grace upon your lusts"

I read something on my FB yesterday that said something to the effect of how people need to listen to each other and not be formulating an answer in their minds while the other person is yet speaking. That is why it is such a gift to be a good listener. Everyone LOVES someone who actually takes the time to hear someone out before giving an answer. I've noticed in life that there are very few really good listeners.
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#147
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#147
I understand...Like our Lord did for us...I have forgiven him before he even did anything...it's in our DNA..in our inner man of the heart... we IS Christians.... ( did ya like my grammar there?..lol )


eternally-gratefull said:

Buddy or not. If you see someone acting unchristlike, you need to be a good disciple and confront them.

You do not excuse their sin, I have people that do that for me, I asked them too.
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P

popeye

Guest
#148
#148
ladylynn said:
I know many of us tend to not read links especially long ones, but seriously, if we want to know what is really being said by each other., the time must be taken to read. What else are we hear for but to sit down.. 'come let us reason together'

I know many of you here on CC who are against this idea of hyper-grace and you are all reasonable awesome Christians. Any reasonable Christian would turn from what you posted here Ahwatukee about the brief description of those who don't know what Hyper-Grace is; I certainly would too. But that is not describing what I believe or any of those who I'm in agreement with here.

But if we don't take the time to actually read what is being said we will not come to any understanding., The article is excellent and touches on so many of the points you mentioned here Ahwatukee and the issues so many believers are concerned about but without really listening to what is being said., you will for sure run off yelling "HERETICAL!! RUN FROM THIS MESSAGE FROM HELL"

I would encourage each of us to read what the other posts so that we don't run off with only half an answer and for sure., if you don't hear the rest you don't hear the whole.
Click to expand...
Oh,stop being so right on,Godly and Christlike.

Thanks for jerking us straight. LOL
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#149
#149
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
Do you ever take the time to read and understand a post before you respond? I provided all information that is necessary. What part of it didn't you understand?
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What part did you not understand?

Your AGAIN quoted a person who has been dead for centuries, and determining

1. He wrote it
2. He was a Christian
3. He knew what he was talking about

Says who? Why do people seek words of men and not the word of God?

Can we just discuss the bible. and not who said what?? THEY ARE NOT ALIVE ANYMORE..

Gods word is inspired. THATS ALL WE CAN TRUST.. or are we all catholic?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#150
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#150
Grace777x70 said:
The Father was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. He had sin put on Jesus for our sakes. All sin was placed on Jesus..which is why all judgment came on Him as well.

The My God, My God was the Son of Man in Him identifying with us when sin came on Him. Like us, He felt the feeling of separation and guilt and being left alone..forsaken by God...but it wasn't true..He was just "voicing" what we as humanity cry out.

But Jesus came back to the Son of God at the end and said..Father..forgive them..into Your hands I commit My spirit...beautiful picture of our Lord's love for us and the Father staying with Him through it all.
Click to expand...
I'm confused. You mean "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" wasn't true, He was just voicing?
And what is this 'Jesus came back to the Son'? Sure seem to be reading lots into that passage.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#151
#151
ladylynn said:
I know., it gets frustrating that anyone here would even think we would say "sin all you want., have no love, have no responsibility to be like Christ., trample the blood of Jesus and consume grace upon your lusts"

I read something on my FB yesterday that said something to the effect of how people need to listen to each other and not be formulating an answer in their minds while the other person is yet speaking. That is why it is such a gift to be a good listener. Everyone LOVES someone who actually takes the time to hear someone out before giving an answer. I've noticed in life that there are very few really good listeners.
Click to expand...

In the same token, we need to be humble enough when we do do it (which I think we all do from time to time) and are confronted with it, that we admit our mistake and apologize. not keep rehashing the same old argument,, which is useless, because the person does not believe what you THINK they believe.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#152
#152
Grace777x70 said:
I understand...Like our Lord did for us...I have forgiven him before he even did anything...it's in our DNA..in our inner man of the heart... we IS Christians.... ( did ya like my grammar there?..lol )
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Oh I Agree about forgiveness.

Chastening still needs to happen.. God forgave me also. but he still chastens me.. Most of the time by using brothers to confront me..

I thank him for that.
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#153
#153
Grace777x70 said:
Hi ladylynn...Ahwatukee just posted the so-called definition of hyper-grace from someplace..not that it was his words in all fairness.

You are right about people seeing definitions or seeing someone put down something and getting the "wrong" impression. everyone should look at both sides of the coin and come to their own conclusions and faith.

What stirs me is when people say something negative in such a way that makes it seem that it is wrong but in fact it is being mis-represented . We grace-based believers are very much accustomed to those kinds of attacks and it will continue too...it's just the nature of the beast!.....:)
Click to expand...
Yes.,Awahtukee is someone I give 'likes' to all the time. He is right on about the Bible. He even holds to the unpopular belief of the bride of Christ being raptured before the tribulation period. So he is not one to say something without having studied it out., so that is why I commented to him. :)
 
L

ladylynn

Guest
#154
#154
popeye said:
Oh,stop being so right on,Godly and Christlike.

Thanks for jerking us straight. LOL
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I'm sorry brother popeye!!! If I came off sounding that way it sure was not me!! :D
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#155
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#155
it was true He said that..I was referring to what He said then..My God, My God...I believe it was His humanity part identifying with us as He was and still is the Son of Man..so He was "voicing" what we feel like with sin in and on us..

Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man..so He was talking to the Father from both identities....if you will..

This MY God, My God..is not consistent with what He always called out Father during His life..He did say too that He had come to reveal the Father to us..


crossnote said:
I'm confused. You mean "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" wasn't true, He was just voicing?
And what is this 'Jesus came back to the Son'? Sure seem to be reading lots into that passage.
Click to expand...
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#156
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
692
113
#156
eternally-gratefull said:
What part did you not understand?

Your AGAIN quoted a person who has been dead for centuries, and determining

1. He wrote it
2. He was a Christian
3. He knew what he was talking about

Says who? Why do people seek words of men and not the word of God?

Can we just discuss the bible. and not who said what?? THEY ARE NOT ALIVE ANYMORE..

Gods word is inspired. THATS ALL WE CAN TRUST.. or are we all catholic?
Click to expand...
..................
4199675334_66c3e3d61d_z.jpg
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#157
#157
Grace777x70 said:
it was true He said that..I was referring to what He said then..My God, My God...I believe it was His humanity part identifying with us as He was and still is the Son of Man..so He was "voicing" what we feel like with sin in and on us..

Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of Man..so He was talking to the Father from both identities....if you will..

This MY God, My God..is not consistent with what He always called out Father during His life..He did say too that He had come to reveal the Father to us..
Click to expand...

I think he said the truth

My God (father) My God (Holy Spirit) Why have you forsaken (departed from) Me

I do not think we should try to spiritualize it and make it mean something else.

Jesus did not just say it, the Greek says he screamed it.. and he kept screaming it..
 
Grace777x70

Grace777x70

Banned
#159
Nov 22, 2015
20,436
1,431
0
#159
I have no idea about the rapture at all..I know what I was taught but I don't have a clue whether it is right or not..lol

..I'm looking up for my Lord every day!

ladylynn said:
Yes.,Awahtukee is someone I give 'likes' to all the time. He is right on about the Bible. He even holds to the unpopular belief of the bride of Christ being raptured before the tribulation period. So he is not one to say something without having studied it out., so that is why I commented to him. :)
Click to expand...
 
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