Undeniably overwhelming and resounding proof of the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.
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The subject between "us and them" is usually what we see as their heresies, and they want to boil what we say down to ignorance of what they actually teach, which is, of course, bunk... but we digress... I did read the Scriptures you gave before the post where I added some of what James said, but it is getting late for me and I am in the middle of some household chores... but it is interesting to see some say there is nothing wrong with having bigger better whatever as long as you are not cheating anyone when the verses I gave clearly spoke against that (adding to our pleasures out of greed). Meanwhile, Jesus sent His disciples out with nothing... I am trying not to fall down on either side of this issue, but it does very much seem, despite the denials to the contrary, that the person who does not get healed somehow gets the blame for the lack of healing they bear. It seems to be another great divide within the body. PS: are you a Prot? I don't know 
S
The subject between "us and them" is usually what we see as their heresies, and they want to boil what we say down to ignorance of what they actually teach, which is, of course, bunk... but we digress... I did read the Scriptures you gave before the post where I added some of what James said, but it is getting late for me and I am in the middle of some household chores... but it is interesting to see some say there is nothing wrong with having bigger better whatever as long as you are not cheating anyone when the verses I gave clearly spoke against that (adding to our pleasures out of greed). Meanwhile, Jesus sent His disciples out with nothing... I am trying not to fall down on either side of this issue, but it does very much seem, despite the denials to the contrary, that the person who does not get healed somehow gets the blame for the lack of healing they bear. It seems to be another great divide within the body. PS: are you a Prot? I don't know
All I was trying to point out is that it isn't always wrong to ask for things. Years ago I needed a suit so I could have something to wear while ministering. I was honestly too poor to buy it. Back then $20 might be a deal breaker from one week to the next. God had a man to buy me a suit. I never hinted that I needed one, nor did I ever act like I didn't have the money to get anything I needed. I've had God do that many times in my life with many things. I simply made my requests known to God.
G
Good evening Shotgunner;
your suit story really compelled me to write my experience about trusting God. It's a good story! Maybe this is also for Know1 because he mentioned he was metaphorically 'hit hard' possibly relating to faith!?
My husband wanted to purchase a newer used diesel in the Spring 2016 so we could haul water with our trailer more efficiently. We had an older gas GMC Duramax with over 300,000 kms (that is a bucket load!) that we were praying would survive. Over a month ago; that fateful day the transmission blew-up!! (I honestly don't think the transmission literally blows-up; but my husband sure did! Lol!) Realizing we could not ethically afford the diesel at that present time, we trusted in God and purchased another used gas truck for one-third the price than we would've payed for a diesel loan.
My husband was still annoyed and glared at our new lawn ornament slash bird fountain with disappointment (the broken GMC)!! We prayed; and we decided there must be a reason that we don't yet understand but God does. Well one week after that GMC broke down, my husband's hours at work were cut. If we had went ahead and pushed getting that diesel anyway regardless of the financial strain instead of addressing God's warning signs, we would've been struggling so much that we may have potentially been forced to either try to resell the diesel or second mortgage our home!?!?
I guess I relate to the suit story; placing your needs out there for the Holy Spirit to heed people's hearts; and on the flip side listening to God to stay on His path.
your suit story really compelled me to write my experience about trusting God. It's a good story! Maybe this is also for Know1 because he mentioned he was metaphorically 'hit hard' possibly relating to faith!?
My husband wanted to purchase a newer used diesel in the Spring 2016 so we could haul water with our trailer more efficiently. We had an older gas GMC Duramax with over 300,000 kms (that is a bucket load!) that we were praying would survive. Over a month ago; that fateful day the transmission blew-up!! (I honestly don't think the transmission literally blows-up; but my husband sure did! Lol!) Realizing we could not ethically afford the diesel at that present time, we trusted in God and purchased another used gas truck for one-third the price than we would've payed for a diesel loan.
My husband was still annoyed and glared at our new lawn ornament slash bird fountain with disappointment (the broken GMC)!! We prayed; and we decided there must be a reason that we don't yet understand but God does. Well one week after that GMC broke down, my husband's hours at work were cut. If we had went ahead and pushed getting that diesel anyway regardless of the financial strain instead of addressing God's warning signs, we would've been struggling so much that we may have potentially been forced to either try to resell the diesel or second mortgage our home!?!?
I guess I relate to the suit story; placing your needs out there for the Holy Spirit to heed people's hearts; and on the flip side listening to God to stay on His path.
S
Absolutely, and I've seen a lot of people flat broke who just loved money. I actually think it is easier to fall into the sin of the love of money when you don't have much. When you are in financial need it is easy to see money as the thing that would take care of all your need. That place in your heart is reserved for God only.
I always say that the easiest way not to be money minded is to have enough money that you never even have to think about it.
I always say that the easiest way not to be money minded is to have enough money that you never even have to think about it.
We have such high standards today that are bolstered by high expectations. Saying someone needs a four bedroom house because they have three children is a bit fallacious. I grew up in a family of thirteen. We had six bedrooms for a while, and then at some point, my parents converted a downstairs room into their bedroom, which had an ensuite that we were all allowed to use, because there was only one other bathroom for the eleven children upstairs. Of course by the time the youngest was born the eldest was out going to university but you get the picture? People want too much. They tell themselves they need it, they deserve it, it is normal. LOL. It could very easily be construed as greed and it would not be a misconstrual. And... Jesus sent the disciples out with nothing. Human nature has not changed in two thousand years. It is still the pride of life, the lust of the flesh, and lust of the eye, only now we call it keeping up with the Joneses.
The subject between "us and them" is usually what we see as their heresies, and they want to boil what we say down to ignorance of what they actually teach, which is, of course, bunk... but we digress... I did read the Scriptures you gave before the post where I added some of what James said, but it is getting late for me and I am in the middle of some household chores... but it is interesting to see some say there is nothing wrong with having bigger better whatever as long as you are not cheating anyone when the verses I gave clearly spoke against that (adding to our pleasures out of greed). Meanwhile, Jesus sent His disciples out with nothing... I am trying not to fall down on either side of this issue, but it does very much seem, despite the denials to the contrary, that the person who does not get healed somehow gets the blame for the lack of healing they bear. It seems to be another great divide within the body. PS: are you a Prot? I don't know
On the positive side, how do you think you received Christ in your heart?
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be [sozo] saved [healed, preserved, protected, delivered, made whole].
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
This is what words of faith do when you believe use the promises of God's word.
People should be getting healed and delivered when they get saved.
2Co 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith [they had in the old testament], according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
If you don't have this same spirit of faith, then Abraham is not your father, and you are not born again.
As it was in the old, so it is in the new. As the spirit is in the man, so is the man. 1Jn 4:17.
They believed and therefore spoke what they believed. That is how faith works.
In case you didn't know it, in Romans 10, Paul talks about how words of faith work, just like he did in 2 Corinthians. In order for this word of faith to work for someone to receive eternal life, they must first hear the gospel, believe it, then speak or confess Jesus as their personal lord.
BIGI AND NICI is a derogatory way of saying, WOF, or word of faith. Something that is written in the holy scriptures in clear, easy to understand English. And the so-called church, scoffs and ridicules the doctrine they know nothing about, calling it a heresy and doctrine of devils, doing their best to deride and belittle anyone who would dare believe in it. This is God's word they condemn as though it is of the devil when it is written right in front of them, as plain as day.
How could I say anything other than I KNOW this is the truth of God.
Jesus said, His sheep hear His voice and receive His words, and if no one can receive this simple truth, how can I see them any other way other than a wolf in sheep's clothing? That is why it is a very small thing for me to be judged by any.
I still have more scripture to reveal, and it is by no means exhaustive. It just goes on and on, all through the bible, and yet very few see it.
That is amazing to me.
It's kind of like having enough food to eat.
When I was in high school, I was on the wrestling team and had to "suck" the most weight, as I couldn't beat my brother, who was an undefeated, two time state and one time national division 3 champion. So I had to go the next weight class down, which was very hard for me to do, as I already had very little fat on me. Anyway, aside from all the running, lifting, and wrestling I had to do with school work, I would go without food for days at a time. All I could think about most of the time was food.
When I was full or content, I didn't grave to have it anymore.
So I suppose you're right.
When I was in high school, I was on the wrestling team and had to "suck" the most weight, as I couldn't beat my brother, who was an undefeated, two time state and one time national division 3 champion. So I had to go the next weight class down, which was very hard for me to do, as I already had very little fat on me. Anyway, aside from all the running, lifting, and wrestling I had to do with school work, I would go without food for days at a time. All I could think about most of the time was food.
When I was full or content, I didn't grave to have it anymore.
So I suppose you're right.
I want to see both sides, actually, but was simply responding to one part of the post... I try to keep to one thing at a time, sorry, I know some people are all over the place with their posts but I like to stick to one thing at a time, being concise and to the point as much as possible. It helps keep the conversation focused and on topic. I think this is an element of what you and others have been saying about WoF... the need or necessity to stay focused on a desired outcome despite detractors.
When I had a TV I used to watch Andrew Wommack a bit, (didn't someone mention him?) but had no idea he was WoF. I know that came out of the blue...
God put Him there. Or maybe He was always there, waiting
for me to become ready to receive His presence in my life.
I have personally encountered both God and Jesus Christ. I am fairly certain they both wanted me as their own, in fact, even though I experience moments of doubt, nobody could ever convince me otherwise. It took me a while, but I finally complied/surrendered. In the state of disbelief I was in at the time of the most life rattling revelation, I learned something valuable, because I knew it was God revealing Himself to me as much as I did not want to believe it was so. The reason why I find this valuable is because Scripture tells us that His sheep know His voice. I recognized His voice as God. Another thing is, and this is a bit off the wall again, but when Mohammed had his encounter, he did not know who wa addressing him, and only later allowed others to convince him it was the angel Gabriel. I think that speaks volumes. Anyways...
I don't see the connection between confessing Jesus as your Lord and saviour to the WoF movement. What am I missing?
I have not explored this area of faith. I did have one progressive incurable and potentially fatal disease that was healed but I did not ask for that... and I have been delivered of other things as well, things I have asked for and believed God could do for me... I think my faith is pretty simple and straightforward, but I could be wrong. I have been wrong before.
I think this is an element of what you and others have been saying about WoF... the need or necessity to stay focused on a desired outcome despite detractors. When I had a TV I used to watch Andrew Wommack a bit, (didn't someone mention him?) but had no idea he was WoF. I know that came out of the blue...
God put Him there. Or maybe He was always there, waiting
for me to become ready to receive His presence in my life.
I have personally encountered both God and Jesus Christ. I am fairly certain they both wanted me as their own, in fact, even though I experience moments of doubt, nobody could ever convince me otherwise. It took me a while, but I finally complied/surrendered. In the state of disbelief I was in at the time of the most life rattling revelation, I learned something valuable, because I knew it was God revealing Himself to me as much as I did not want to believe it was so. The reason why I find this valuable is because Scripture tells us that His sheep know His voice. I recognized His voice as God. Another thing is, and this is a bit off the wall again, but when Mohammed had his encounter, he did not know who wa addressing him, and only later allowed others to convince him it was the angel Gabriel. I think that speaks volumes. Anyways...
I don't see the connection between confessing Jesus as your Lord and saviour to the WoF movement. What am I missing?
I have not explored this area of faith. I did have one progressive incurable and potentially fatal disease that was healed but I did not ask for that... and I have been delivered of other things as well, things I have asked for and believed God could do for me... I think my faith is pretty simple and straightforward, but I could be wrong. I have been wrong before.
Getting back to the subject.
Mar 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
Mar 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Mar 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God [or have the faith of God].
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
This example shows Jesus using WOF, BIGI, or NICI to curse the fig tree.
If Jesus does it, then why is it bad if we do the same?
Peter points out the fact that the tree Jesus spoke to died, just like He commanded it to. It had to. Why?
Because Jesus used the law of faith or word of faith.
Jesus then proceeds to tell Peter how He did it saying, "this is how you use God's faith".
He starts out saying, "verily or truly", which is to say, "this is a truth of God or the truth". Meaning, it doesn't need help from any other verse in the bible to make it the whole council of God or the whole truth. It stands alone as THE TRUTH.
"whosoever shall say, speak, or command to or unto... and believe in you heart those things which you said shall come to pass, without any doubt, you SHALL have WHATSOEVER you say".
To paraphrase that would be to say, "whoever speaks to or commands a situation or thing to happen, and does not doubt what they have said shall come to pass or manifest in the natural, but believes what they said will happen, they will have whatever they said."
That was Jesus who taught Peter how His words had an effect on that plant. And the word He was talking about was words of faith.
It's that simple.
The fact is, everyone does it, every day, with whatever they are dealing with. Whatever you believe in your heart, will come out you mouth without thought. For, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
Mar 11:12 And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
Mar 11:13 And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
Mar 11:14 And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God [or have the faith of God].
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
This example shows Jesus using WOF, BIGI, or NICI to curse the fig tree.
If Jesus does it, then why is it bad if we do the same?
Peter points out the fact that the tree Jesus spoke to died, just like He commanded it to. It had to. Why?
Because Jesus used the law of faith or word of faith.
Jesus then proceeds to tell Peter how He did it saying, "this is how you use God's faith".
He starts out saying, "verily or truly", which is to say, "this is a truth of God or the truth". Meaning, it doesn't need help from any other verse in the bible to make it the whole council of God or the whole truth. It stands alone as THE TRUTH.
"whosoever shall say, speak, or command to or unto... and believe in you heart those things which you said shall come to pass, without any doubt, you SHALL have WHATSOEVER you say".
To paraphrase that would be to say, "whoever speaks to or commands a situation or thing to happen, and does not doubt what they have said shall come to pass or manifest in the natural, but believes what they said will happen, they will have whatever they said."
That was Jesus who taught Peter how His words had an effect on that plant. And the word He was talking about was words of faith.
It's that simple.
The fact is, everyone does it, every day, with whatever they are dealing with. Whatever you believe in your heart, will come out you mouth without thought. For, out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.
S
I don't see it that way at all. Why would God who has streets of solid gold and a gate made from a single pearl get upset with me for wanting a 3 bedroom house? God honestly doesn't care how much you have or how rich you are. All that's important is that he is first. The standards of wealth are just ridiculous ideas we have, while God sits and laughs at us for getting all worked up over a car or house that costs too much. Most all that thinking is just false humility anyway. It's actually built on pride. Look at me and how little I can live on so that I can do so much for God. It honestly makes me laugh to see how silly we are over money sometimes.
Some draw the parallel between Jesus cursing the fig tree with the coming destruction of the Temple. The whole Judaic system was being done away with; the law/animal sacrificial system was not producing fruit for the kingdom. The new wine skin was being prepared in Him, the true Bread of Life. Saying He was practicing WoF for us to copy seems a stretch. He resurrected Himself from death, after all.
If I may put it to you lightly, God had to put a new or fresh spirit man in you in order for you to receive the triune God in their heart. Ezek 36:26-7 tells you what God did for you to receive Christ in your heart.
You have an old woman and a new woman in your heart. Before you were born again, you only had the old sinful, unregenerated woman in there. That spirit woman has a spirit of the devil in it, and therefore causes you to want to sin at times. That spirit was polluted and could not handle the Spirit of the living God. So He had to give you a new, clean, and regenerated spirit, that has no sin in it. God put His Holy Spirit in that spirit woman of yours, to cause you to be like Him.
I was not saying you were not born again. I am referring to those who teach contrary to sound doctrine. This being one of them. To me, this is doctrine is very clear.
That's just it. Everyone thinks it has to do with gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, I want, I want.
Words of faith are just this. You say what you believe in your heart. That's it in a nut shell.
And Jesus teaches that you will have what you say if you really believe in your heart that what you have said is so or shall be.
He didn't say you might or you might not have it, but you shall. That is why I say it is a law. It works every time, without fail. It has to, or it couldn't be the truth.
So if you believe Jesus suffered and died for your sins, and God the Father raised Him from the dead on the third day for your justification, and confess Him as lord of your life personally, you have received Him by faith, in your heart, and God did what He said He would do in Ezek.
Believing and confessing. That's all word of faith is. That's how you and most everyone got saved.
I have found, the babes in Christ get their healing a whole lot easier than the mature and knowledgeable child of God.
My wife drove a car twice without gas. Once for more than two and a half hours and the other for over two hours. I still can't do that at this time. My head keeps getting in the way.
She too has that simple faith you talk about.
You have an old woman and a new woman in your heart. Before you were born again, you only had the old sinful, unregenerated woman in there. That spirit woman has a spirit of the devil in it, and therefore causes you to want to sin at times. That spirit was polluted and could not handle the Spirit of the living God. So He had to give you a new, clean, and regenerated spirit, that has no sin in it. God put His Holy Spirit in that spirit woman of yours, to cause you to be like Him.
I was not saying you were not born again. I am referring to those who teach contrary to sound doctrine. This being one of them. To me, this is doctrine is very clear.
That's just it. Everyone thinks it has to do with gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, I want, I want.
Words of faith are just this. You say what you believe in your heart. That's it in a nut shell.
And Jesus teaches that you will have what you say if you really believe in your heart that what you have said is so or shall be.
He didn't say you might or you might not have it, but you shall. That is why I say it is a law. It works every time, without fail. It has to, or it couldn't be the truth.
So if you believe Jesus suffered and died for your sins, and God the Father raised Him from the dead on the third day for your justification, and confess Him as lord of your life personally, you have received Him by faith, in your heart, and God did what He said He would do in Ezek.
Believing and confessing. That's all word of faith is. That's how you and most everyone got saved.
I have not explored this area of faith. I did have one progressive incurable and potentially fatal disease that was healed but I did not ask for that... and I have been delivered of other things as well, things I have asked for and believed God could do for me... I think my faith is pretty simple and straightforward, but I could be wrong. I have been wrong before.
My wife drove a car twice without gas. Once for more than two and a half hours and the other for over two hours. I still can't do that at this time. My head keeps getting in the way.
She too has that simple faith you talk about.
Where do you get your information? Kenneth Hagin wasn't a mason.
Honestly, there's so much misinformation and flat out lies about the Word of Faith. Here's a list of a few.
Honestly, there's so much misinformation and flat out lies about the Word of Faith. Here's a list of a few.