Undeniably overwhelming and resounding proof of the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

No sir. I'm having a tough enough time with what has come my way. Why would I want more?
I don't pray for the curses of God to take hold of my family and I, nor do I care to give the devil any legal hold or authority over or against me.
The persecutions Paul talks about has to do with people persecuting Christian, BECAUSE of their belief in Christ.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

KJV1611 said:

Okay, I will give you some sir.
God is not a hypocrite.
What He commands us to be, think, say, and do, He already is, thinks, says, and does Himself. Which further means that He will not tell us to do something or to be a certain way, without Himself being or doing that same thing, in the same way He told us to do it.

Another thing that needs to be established is that God is not a hypocrite, or that He would command us to do something that He would not or does not do Himself. He would not condemn others for being a hypocrite to be one Himself.
Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

So whatever He tells man to do, He Himself already does the same. Whatever He says His children have and are, He already has and is. So if He tells us that we should not break our word but shall do according to that which we spoke, will God do any less Himself? Of course not. What God said in His word, HE WILL DO, GUARANTEED!!!
Eze 12:25 For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 12:28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

So when God says He will give us "what things soever we desire when we pray", then will He go back on His word and refuse to give you the things you asked for, because it wasn't His will? Where do you see that written in the above verse? Then why did you put that in there as though it was written? Oh, it wasn't the whole council of God? Then let's add that to every person saying the sinner's prayer, and at the same time, let them know what Jesus said about how many of those who call Jesus their lord, will be turned away and not be allowed to go to heaven, because it wasn't the will of God. You don't put it there or say the same thing about the new birth, because you can't prove whose been born again and whose not. Because is most cases, there are no visible signs or feelings that people got after saying the sinner's prayer. So since you don't really know who was truly born again and who was not, there is no need to alter and pervert scriptural interpretations to make it line up with what actually took place, like you have to do with healing, when it doesn't happen.

Gr8grace · Nov 8, 2015

know1 said:

You should see that you are in error.

know1 said:

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

KJV1611 said:

Here's another topic relating to WOF scriptures.

Jesus, our example.
We are to follow Jesus and do as He did. That means what He did and the way He did things, we are to do the same, in like manner, as His children. Which further means that we are to follow His examples, to do things the way He did.

First, Being like Jesus.
Aren't we told to do the same things Jesus did, or to be like Him? Isn't that why He put His Spirit in us, to cause us to be like Him, and to have the same faith as He has? The bible says we are to think, speak, and act or do the same things Jesus and His disciples did. Didn't Jesus command the disciples, to cleanse the leapers, heal the sick, and raise the dead? Wasn't Jesus our example? Yes, He was, and we are told to be His disciples and followers of His examples, and of his life, which not only involved repentance and salvation, but included healing and deliverance for ourselves and others, along with greater works than those which Jesus did.

Joh 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
This wasn't just for foot washing, even though in this particular verse that is what Jesus was talking about.

Mat 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
Mat 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Luk 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
It can't get any plainer or speak any louder than that. We are not above Jesus, who is our Lord, Master, King, and God, but as His disciples, we should learn of Him, to be LIKE or AS He is , to be carbon copies of Him, to mimic Him and the works of His life, not only of what He did, but HOW He did the things He did, and with the same thoughts and attitude He had.

2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Christ is the supreme lord or ruler; one who possesses the highest power and authority. To be an ambassador or minister for Christ is to be His minister and voice on earth, representing the power and dignity of his sovereign lord. What He says, we speak in His place, what He does, we follow. He is sent to say and do what the sovereign would himself say and do, were he present. So what would Jesus say and do if He were present? The same as He said and did when He walked the earth. He changes not. We are told to say and do as He would have said and done, if He were present.

Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
This too speaks very clearly to the believer, or rather to those who believe on Jesus, that we are to be like Jesus, to do the same works He did, to speak the same things He spoke, and to say them in faith, which is the same way He said them. To be like Jesus, we are to use the word of God, walk without sin, be holy, sanctified, righteous, and clean. Full of love, walking in the Spirit, and living by faith, obeying the voice and commands of our King, striving to be perfect... Just like Jesus was. So to be like Jesus, to be as our Lord and Master, IF WE TRULY BELIEVE, we should not only be doing the same works that Jesus did, but move on to greater works than the ones He did. In order to do that, we have to do things the same way He did. If He spoke to storms, we are to speak to storms in His name, if He cast out evil spirits with His word, we are to do likewise in His name, with the same said word, and so on.

Mat 14:16 But Yeshua said to them, “They don’t need to go away. You give them something to eat.”

Mar 4:40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

Mat 10:1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Luk 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
Why did Jesus give power to and tell His disciples to, preach the gospel, feed the people, still the storm, heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out devil, to heal all manner of sicknesses and diseases, and raise the dead? Let me answer that question with another question. What was Jesus doing before He told His disciples to those things?
He was doing those very same things. If He didn't want us to be like Him or as He was and to do things like Him, then He wouldn't have told us to do the same things He was doing. Jesus is the same today as He was back then. We are to be like our Lord and Master, and do the same things Jesus did and then go on to greater works.

Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Luk 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, AS your Father also is merciful.
Here we are told to be like God. Then Jesus tells us what God is like. He says, be like this because your Father is like this. Do that, for your Father does that.

1Pe 2:20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
Even thouth the above verses are talking about suffering for Christ, Jesus still left us an example to follow, not only to walk without sin, and to suffer persecution from others, as He did, but we are to walk as He walked and do as He did. The point is, Jesus is our example to follow in everything. By-the-way, the suffering written above, is not talking about nor does it include sicknesses and/or diseases, as it is clear from verses 20 and 23. Also note the “no sin” that we are follow? If it weren't possible, then God wouldn't have written it in there. If you say we can't go without sinning, then the problem is that you don't believe what is written in the word of God.

Jesus left us an example to follow in His steps. His steps didn't just include suffering persecution, but He ministered deliverence and healing to everyone that could believe. He calmed storms and stilled the sea, walked on water, and raise the dead, and so on. That is the example He left us to follow. If the above kind of signs aren't following you, then it's obvious that you either aren't doing anything for the kingdom of God or you simply don't believe, or both. This has nothing to do with talking to someone about Christ and leading them to Christ. It's about signs, wonders, and miracles following like they did with Jesus. We are to walk like that.

Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Another translation of this would read, “Have the faith of God”.
Why would Jesus tell us to have the faith of God if we are to walk around as servants, hoping that we are pleasing the lord enough that He would grant us our request. Is that how Mk 11:23-24 works? No. In order for us to move the mountain or kill a fig tree, we must have the faith of God and speak boldly to the fig tree or mountain, like God. Jesus is telling us to be like God in naming what we want done in the name of Jesus, then claiming it done, and then it will happen.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus [as our example] the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

This is to be like God, to do as He does.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.
If God names and claims it, we are to do likewise. When we speak His word, it is done, when we command in the name of Jesus, it too stands fast, when we speak if faith.

Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
I am aware of how this is worded in some of the other translations, but I believe the interpretation of the KJB to be consistent with my understanding, as I have been showing throughout this thread. The word of God is the worker or power of God's hands, and we are to command that power or his hands by sending His word in the name of Jesus.

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through …
To them that have obtained faith like that of Peter, which is like that of Jesus. This is one of the verses that tells us to be like Jesus or as He was. Through the promises of God's word, we, the children of God, can be partakers of God's divine nature? Can we really be like Christ? Should we? Wasn't Peter and John like Jesus? How do we use these promises? How do we partake of God's divine nature through the promises of God? Does anyone know what, “exceeding great... promises” means? To start with, it sound like there's more than one, as in many. So that would obviously include salvation, but then what else? So what kind of things could we include that would make these promises exceedingly great whereby we are partakers of God's divine nature? Would commanding the winds and waves of a storm to be still in the name of Jesus, be one of them? Jesus spoke to the storm and waves, so in order for us to do the same thing, we are to speak to the storm, in His name, quote the promise of God that gives us the authority to do so, then praise God for doing it. The results will be exactly what you expect to happen. If it is nothing, then you will get just that, nothing.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Why did Jesus rebuke His disciples when they wanted Him to save them? He wanted them to start doing what He did. To be little gods, in that they were to take authority over the weather themselves.

Angela53510 · Nov 8, 2015

know1 said:

BIGI, blab it grab it.
Sorry 'bout the "wall of text", but I don't have a program that I can copy and paste as it is written. I hope the small changes I've made helps.
I know about all the people who have tried this "faith stuff" and failed, myself included.

I would like to address the issue of someone refusing medication that's on their death bed, because they are "believing God for" their healing. I have heard more than one story about how someone refused medication or treatments because they were trying to believe God for their healing and then died. (And I strongly stress and emphesize the word, trying.) And how those of the WOF belief said of them that failed to receive, that they didn't have enough or the right kind of faith to get their healing. That may or may not be true. There is more than one factor that could be the root cause for the sickness or disease. Until the root is dealt with, the problem will remain. Take care of the root, and there will not be a reoccuring problem.
My mother died trying to believe for her healing, while taking medication. That was before I discovered some important information concerning how to get one's healing.

As for those who refuse medication and/or treatments. Haven't any of you read about those who built their house on the sand before the storm came and beat against that house and how great the fall of it was? What do you think the house, foundation, sand, and storm represented? What does the rock symbolize? If you don't have the word of God in you to where you believe the word over the situation, then you have built your house on the sand, and you will fall. If you are just acting on the word hoping or wishing, but in fear of the worst, then again, your efforts will fail and you will fall. If you believe and accept what the doctors say and receive the medications and/or treatments over what the word of God says, then again, you have built your house on the sand and not on the rock. If you are looking at the world rather than the word concerning your healing, then again, your faith or foundation to your house, is built on the sand. Trusting in people, such as doctors, and in things, like medication, to fix the unwanted problem, over trusting in God and His written word, is like a rich man trusting in his riches to save him from hell, over trusting in God.

In most cases, faith doesn't come instantaneously or over night for things such as healing, as most would have you believe. It has taken me and many others a very long time to get the word in us enough to know that God will do what He said in His word to get our healing through faith. The seed/word of God that is planted in the heart, has to have time to grow, and if you TRY this before the seed has matured enough to bear fruit, during a trying time, you will fall like all the others who tried it and failed. And if it is something that can kill you, then you will die. God is no respecter of persons, reguardless of who you are. If you don't know your rights as a child of God, and/or if you don't exercise those rights, God will let you take that sickness or disease to your grave.

You don't try faith, you do it. I did the same thing with my finances awhile back, and it almost cost me everything and caused me to lose ALL my possessions, and put my family and I out on the street... literally. I know what it is like for this WOF to fail or not work in my favor. I have been there many time myself. But if you continue in God's word, doubting nothing that is written, then you too will come to know the truth, and then the truth will make you free/healed/delivered/... etc. For many people, it takes diligence and a great deal of time in the word, to acquire.

But If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And [then] ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So to those who would like God to heal them but pray, “if it be your will Lord,” not knowing if it is His will or not, or what will happen after they pray, or if they accept the situation as the will of God, then it would behove you or the loved one to take the best medications and/or treatments that medical science has to offer, because God does not and will not move on your behalf because of your hoping or wishful thinking. Neither will He perform His word just because you act on it, or were being a doer of the word. Without God's faith, the actions you take for the word's sake will amount to and be for nothing. Again, God is a repector of no persons, that includes you and your loved one, and will not move on your behalf without and apart from faith, for without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please Him. If faith is the only way to please God, then it is only by faith that will get the job done. I know, because I have acted on the word without faith more than once in the past, like that concerning my finances, and I had a 100 percent failure rate.

Why doesn't the word work when you act on it? If faith is dead without works, as the body is without the Spirit, then it would stand to reason, that doers of the word, need the same said faith to give the body or the thing spoken, life and power to manifest in the natural. Even as the our bodies need the spirit for life to function in this world, so does the spirit need the body.

It is not acting on the word without faith, or faith without works, that causes the hand of God to move. It is the acting on the word in faith, that moves the hand of God. It took me a long time to build my faith up with the word of God to where I know that I have what I say and/or what I say is done in the spirit, and will eventually manifest itself in the natural after the will of God has been accomplished. I know now, when I ask for something, it has been given, and has to manifest in the natural, for it is written. That means, what is written has to be done by God Himself, for He cannot lie, nor can He deny Himself by letting His word fail. And no, this is not us putting God in a box, as so many of you like to say. I'm not the one who wrote/said that God will give me whatsoever I ask for in prayer, believing. God did. God is the one who wrote those promises in the bible for us, just like the promise of salvation, which you love so much. Aren't you putting God in a box with your wicked hearts of unbelief, when you say He can't save a certain person, because of their hardness of heart or because they are so wicked, or heal a person because of the kind of sickness or disease they have, and the like? Aren't you putting God in a box when you tell someone to go to the doctors to get help with any medical situation? You don't believe God will do anything, so either you will go yourself or advise someone else to go to the doctor's office or hospital to get medical treatment?
But when I act on the word in faith, in accordance to what I asked for, God causes the thing to manifest itself in the natural. My family and I have received some of the most impossible things, through of this truth.

As for those who don't have the right kind of faith, well, there may be more than one kind of faith, but there is only one kind of God like faith. You can have faith in the natural, and what you understand through logic or natural reasoning, or faith in bad things happening, which is actually the fear of something bad happening. Or you could have faith in astrology, or in good and bad luck, and so on, but it still is not God's faith. What many believe and have mistaken for true faith, is not the God kind of faith at all, but one of hoping and praying in uncertainty. What most really have faith in and for is the natural and/or the negative or bad things happening, while hoping or wishing, with a strong desire, for God to heal them. But it most assuredly is not the God kind of faith. Faith can be either for good or evil, for blessing or cursing. Just like Jesus cursed the fig tree with his faith, by the word of God, we can do the same to ourselves and/or loved ones.

If you couldn't pass a lie detector test, or if your conscience bothers you when you say something in faith before the face of others, then you really are not believing as you have said. The word of God still hasn't taken root in you.
Another thing I would like to be known for those seeking healing and failed to get it is because they lack faith, knowledge of the ways of the kingdom of God, and how God Himself operates or does things.
Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Another reason why most Christians don't get their healing is because they failed to deal with what could be the root cause. For most, the reason why they have the problem in the first place is because of sin. Whether is was you yourself, a spouse, or a parent, someone did something that God didn't like and He put a curse on you. Therefore, so long as the sin remains, the curse will remain, and so long as the curse remains, the problem will remain, or continue to reoccur and come back.

Many Christians are told that they are washed in the blood of Jesus so they cannot be under any curse, and because Jesus bore the curse for them on the cross. They are also taught that they are sinners saved by grace. Therefore they have a sinner's mentality. So long as you think that you are a sinner, you will act like a sinner. For it is written, “As a man thinks in his heart, so is he”. They are also taught that they can never lose their salvation no matter what they do. But if they were to get off into some serious sin and fail to return, then they were never really saved in the first place. All of these teachings add to their failure to receive from God and keep them sick and afflicted.

One of the most important lessons I learned is that sicknesses, diseases, weaknesses or infirmities, poverty, trips, stumbles, and falls, braking of bones, failures, and the like are a direct result of a curse or curses that have been placed on that person or that person's spouse, or parents, or children by God. And so long as the curse remains, so will the problem remain. Even though many problems can be fixed, at least temporarily, if you see the same problem coming back or one problem after another, then most likely, either you or someone close to you has a curse on them because you or they did something that God didn't like. And until you who are called believers, repent, then healing will be hard to come by.

God judges and chastens His children if we do not judge ourselves by repenting or turning the other way from the sin that brought the curse and condition on us or our loved ones.
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we are washed in the blood and no curse can come on us then how is it that many of God's children are sickly and died early because of their sins that they failed to repent of. Why would a just God chastise His children if they have been permanently and perpetually washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus? And why would God tell His children to repent of their sins so that they can be forgiven of their sins and cleansed of all their unrighteousness?
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Much better post for reading! I thank you for that.

As for content, not so much! I've been a Christian 35 years. I started as a Pentecostal, and spent a few lost years listening to WoF teachers. My friend who died of cancer believed for healing, her church believed, her familly believed. She went to see some Faith healer in the eastern US, where she discovered the sin of unforgiveness, for what happened to her family during WWII, when the Japanese attacked the Philippines and killed her family. She found other things in her life. She repented, she prayed, the Faith healer prayed. Copeland Ministries got involved and prayed and believed for her healing. But she believed God and she was not healed.

She was continually at me to find the sin, the curse, or whatever I had done wrong, so I would be healed. I read her books, I believed, I repented. I prayed. But God said, "I have a better plan for you - I am going to use this sickness to glorify me." He got me deeper and deeper into the Word, and led me to Seminary, which gave me tools to study the Bible and minister to others. What an amazing journey!

So glad I became a Baptist, where I don't get condemned every service, judged every prayer meeting or get together.

"For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 8:1

Your words are not words of healing, but words of judgement and condemnation. They are words of legalism - holding God to an out of context meaning, and assuming that others have not read the Bible, and found greate peace and inner healing, knowing that God loves the broken hearted and hurting.

"The Lord is near to the brokenhearted and saves the crushed in spirit." Psalm 34:18

"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalm 73:36

"But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me." 2 Cor. 13:7

I gladly boast in my weakness! Because my Christ is working to change me into his image! And sometimes, that does not include physical healing, but instead transformation of the soul.

"Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect." Romans 12:2

"And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit." 2 Cor. 3:18

Are you being transformed in your character, or are you stuck in an old, failed heresy, like the WoF? I ask this sincerely, because on Judgement Day, Christ is not going to ask how many people you healed. In fact, he may rebuke these WoF healers, because they never knew him.

Instead of saying that healing fails because God curses people or that we can speak with the voice of Jesus and command healing, you need to be asking yourself, how can I serve God and his people better? I can I be on mission with Christ, for the purpose of spreading the gospel of salvation from sin? Stop handing out these tired explanations for why people are not healed, and instead, seek Jesus and his will for your life.

PS. My rights as a child of God are to gratefully serve the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. In no way will I ever demand from my Holy and Righteous God something I want, instead of seeking God for his will, and doing that. Healing as taught by WoF teachers has a lot of hermeneutical issues, I have lots of refutations of twisting of Scripture which the WoF movement uses to justify their false gospel. God does heal, but he also chooses not to. I am glad to be a child of God, that God is transforming for that final day, when I meet him face to face.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

Gr8grace said:

There is no contradiction or error in what I said.
What you are trying to point out has to do with two entirely different subject matters.
The one has to do with someone basing their faith on their feelings or the situation, which is the problem, rather than God's word, which is the solution. They are looking at and believing the situation or symptoms, instead of God's promises.
And concerning the other quote, I was stating simply that the law of faith spoken of in Mk 11:23 will work based on your speaking and believing, regardless of the situation. Basically acting on what you believe in your heart, rather than the situation.
One has to do with basing your faith on what is, and the other is having faith contrary to the current situation because of what you put in your heart. No, it wasn't on God's word, but it was faith in what I believed would happen. Just like Jesus said, "if you believe what you said shall come to pass, you shall have whatsoever you say". Children do this all the time.
When I was a little boy, my family and I got into a head on collision, car accident. I was not hurt in any way, but my parents were and had to go to the hospital. I don't know when seat belts came into being but none of us had any on. Well, my mother wanted me to take some muscle relaxers, because she told me that I my muscles will be in pain in the morning. I assured her that I would not hurt at all. I did so repeatedly, and in the morning, I was perfectly fine, even as I believed.

Gr8grace · Nov 8, 2015

know1 said:

There is no contradiction or error in what I said.
What you are trying to point out has to do with two entirely different subject matters.
The one has to do with someone basing their faith on their feelings or the situation, which is the problem, rather than God's word, which is the solution. They are looking at and believing the situation or symptoms, instead of God's promises.
And concerning the other quote, I was stating simply that the law of faith spoken of in Mk 11:23 will work based on your speaking and believing, regardless of the situation. Basically acting on what you believe in your heart, rather than the situation.
One has to do with basing your faith on what is, and the other is having faith contrary to the current situation because of what you put in your heart. No, it wasn't on God's word, but it was faith in what I believed would happen. Just like Jesus said, "if you believe what you said shall come to pass, you shall have whatsoever you say". Children do this all the time.
When I was a little boy, my family and I got into a head on collision, car accident. I was not hurt in any way, but my parents were and had to go to the hospital. I don't know when seat belts came into being but none of us had any on. Well, my mother wanted me to take some muscle relaxers, because she told me that I my muscles will be in pain in the morning. I assured her that I would not hurt at all. I did so repeatedly, and in the morning, I was perfectly fine, even as I believed.

Just to be clear. WOF works for unbelievers also? as long as they believe that they "won't loose an Eye."

I got a phone call from my dad that my brother had died. "My sincere reply was no, no that is not true. I don't believe it." I acted on what I believed in my heart and not the REAL situation.

I had complete and utter faith that my brother did not die and people were overlooking something. But the situation was true.

KJV1611 · Nov 8, 2015

know1 said:

Okay, I will give you some sir.
God is not a hypocrite.
What He commands us to be, think, say, and do, He already is, thinks, says, and does Himself. Which further means that He will not tell us to do something or to be a certain way, without Himself being or doing that same thing, in the same way He told us to do it.

Another thing that needs to be established is that God is not a hypocrite, or that He would command us to do something that He would not or does not do Himself. He would not condemn others for being a hypocrite to be one Himself.
Num 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

So whatever He tells man to do, He Himself already does the same. Whatever He says His children have and are, He already has and is. So if He tells us that we should not break our word but shall do according to that which we spoke, will God do any less Himself? Of course not. What God said in His word, HE WILL DO, GUARANTEED!!!
Eze 12:25 For I am the LORD: I will speak, and the word that I shall speak shall come to pass; it shall be no more prolonged: for in your days, O rebellious house, will I say the word, and will perform it, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 12:28 Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.
Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.

So when God says He will give us "what things soever we desire when we pray", then will He go back on His word and refuse to give you the things you asked for, because it wasn't His will? Where do you see that written in the above verse? Then why did you put that in there as though it was written? Oh, it wasn't the whole council of God? Then let's add that to every person saying the sinner's prayer, and at the same time, let them know what Jesus said about how many of those who call Jesus their lord, will be turned away and not be allowed to go to heaven, because it wasn't the will of God. You don't put it there or say the same thing about the new birth, because you can't prove whose been born again and whose not. Because is most cases, there are no visible signs or feelings that people got after saying the sinner's prayer. So since you don't really know who was truly born again and who was not, there is no need to alter and pervert scriptural interpretations to make it line up with what actually took place, like you have to do with healing, when it doesn't happen.

Before I respond are you talking about Joh 16:23 where i highlighted in red?

Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

Angela53510 said:

No one is condemning you ma'am, and thank you for what sounds like sincere concern for my eternal state.
As for why people don't get their healing when they pray. Well, they are too numerous for me to cover and frankly, I don't know all the reasons. Some of those reasons could be God testing you. Another reason could be someone doing witchcraft on you, like where my wife is from. They are heavy into the occult. But whatever the reason, I know that Jesus suffered for and bore the curse of sickness for us so we would not have to bare the same. God does not tell you to cross the sea to the other side, then to contradict Himself, send a storm that you cannot nor are allowed to rebuke.
Another thing I know, is that you can't have faith for something if you don't know what the will of the Father is. Again, it amounts to hope or wishful thinking. Faith is confident assurance that what you say or ask for in pray, will happen.
One more thing. If I were to base my faith or believing on my experiences, I would be as you are. I can't not believe otherwise [I just like saying it that way]. I have failed so many times in the past, and am still working on things that I don't know or understand. Just recently I suffered a huge defeat. And yes, I got knocked down more than a few pegs. It would come close to walking on water, only sinking. But because I know what I am saying is of God and not a lie of the devil, I persistently continue. I examine the situation, look to see where I went wrong, and go at it with a vengeance all over again. It if was a sickness that could have killed me, I would have died, because I failed miserably.
And not to blow my own horn, but concerning the subject of discussion, I know too much to change what I believe. I can't unbelieve what I know. I don't just think or believe what I say is a truth of God's word, I know it is.

shotgunner · Nov 8, 2015

Gr8grace said:

That's not what WOF teaches and I think you know that. WOF only teaches someone to believe what God has written in his word. It has nothing at all to do with wants or desires not promised by God's word. It seems by this post that you simply want to make derogatory remarks.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

KJV1611 said:

No sir. Mk 11:24
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

Gr8grace said:

Doesn't the law of gravity work on both the believers and unbelievers alike?
The same holds true for words of faith.
But like I stated earlier. All of God's law have conditions, parameters, and limits. And like the law of lift, some supersede others.
For example.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Psa 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

So here you have Jesus saying "what things soever you desire...", but in the old testament God says He will not hear one who walks in sin. That goes for the Christian as well.
The Ones written in the old will supersede that of the new, if they are walking in sin, even though they are a child of God.
To prove that point, I would add,
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If the child of God doesn't need to repent, forgiveness, or cleansing, then why are those who sin told to confess their sins so they can be forgiven and cleansed?

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

KJV1611 said:

I have more on the subject.

Jesus came to serve us
Jesus our servant.
The concept of Jesus being our servant might be foreign, even offensive to most, but it is very important to both knowing and understanding this truth in order to grasp what is presented.
Jesus is our lord and master, but He came to serve us, as God's children. Yes, we are to serve Jesus as our Lord, God, Master, and King, as He is and always shall be, but He also wants and wills to serve us as He did to all those He ministered to when He walked the earth. Remember, He never changes nor is there shadow of turning in Him. What He was like and what He did when He walked the earth, He still is like and still does today. For it is written, "I change not", and again, "Jesus Christ, THE SAME yesterday, TODAY, and FOREVER." Try to keep that in mind as you read His word, that you might believe.

Luk 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
Luk 22:27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.

Mat 20:26 But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
Mat 20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Who is the greatest, chiefest, and head of the body of Christ? Isn't it Jesus? And didn't He say the greatest and chiefest amony you is to be as the younger, or as a minister, or as a servant? Didn't He say that He Himself came to minister to us as a servant? If He told His disciples to be that way, would He be a hypocrite and do otherwise or any less? How can Jesus still minister to us today when He is in heaven? How did He minister to the people in the days when He walked the earth? How are we born again, healed, preserved, made whole, and delivered? Jesus ministers to us today like He did back then. By the spoken word of God. It is written that Jesus IS THE WORD OF GOD, and said that if we ask anything, in His name, HE Himself will do it for us. He is the word and it was the word of God that formed the worlds and by it all things consist.

So Jesus ministers to us through His name, by God's spoken word, for the angels that have been sent for the heirs of salvation, harken and excel in strength to those who give voice to, or the voice of, or speak God's word. For whosoever has the word of God abiding in them, has Christ abiding in them. And whosoever has Christ, has life. So whoever does not have the word of God abiding in them, does not have Christ, therefore does not have life abiding in them.

Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I WILL do it.

Keep in mind that Jesus IS the whole word of God, who is full of grace and TRUTH, and IS THE TRUTH. And who and what is the power of God? The word/truth/gospel is. Jesus, the Word of God, is the power of God. Again, Jesus was sent not only to give us eternal life, by taking our sins upon Himself and bearing the punishment or penalty of it for us, but He came to minister to and serve us. He does so through the word of God. The word of God is subject to the sender, even as faith is. Jesus said whatsoever we ask for that He WILL do. Then to emphasize what He just said, when He put it another way by saying, if we ask ANYTHING, He WILL do it. That is a direct quote from the word of God and if the bible is the word of God and God cannot lie, then this means EXACTLY what is written. This scripture also shows that name it claim it is of God, for according to Vine's dictionary, the word, “ask”, literally means, to call for, crave, desire, require by saying or speaking to, the thing you desire. In other words, name it claim it, such as commanding an evil spirit to come out of a person. We are commanding the hand of God, without asking Him if it is okay or if it is His will, to drive out that spirit we just spoke to. We are doing basically the same thing God did and does to heal someone. We send the word of God, which is the sword of the Spirit, and the power of God, into that person to drive out that spirit, and the word itself, does the work. Not by power, nor by might, but by My Spirit says the Lord of hosts.

Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
Who is doing the serving here? And where is this table that God prepares for us? Is it in heaven or here on earth? Will you have any enemies present in heaven? Of course not. So God serves us here, on earth, in this life.

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

I have more on the matter.

The word of God is our servant or is subject to the sender.
Joh 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

What about the Roman soldier, when he told Jeus to speak the word only, and his servant shall be healed. What word was it that Jesus was to speak?
To be like Christ and do things the way He did, and that Christ or the word of God is servant to us.
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.

Luk 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Luk 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marveled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

It was the same word of faith Paul wrote about in Romans 10.
Notice the word had to be sent like a servant or soldier. The servant or soldier is given a set of instructions, of which they must follow and do. The word of God is likened to the servant that was sent, so like the servant, the word of God must be told or given instruction on what to do also. Was Jesus impressed with this man's faith? Yes He was. What was it about this man's faith that Jesus marveled over? He likened Jesus' words to that of a servant or soldier under him. We are to be like Him and do the same.

Sending the Word of God.
Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.
Notice God healed and delivered them with His word AFTER His word was sent. Like God, you have to send His word like a master does with his servant or a commander does with those under Him. We are to give God's word instructions that we want carried out, like a commander does with the soldiers under him, and like the soldiers, it is there to serve us and do our bidding, just like the angels that have been sent for and to serve the heirs of salvation. Why? Because we are the children of the most high God.

know1 · Nov 8, 2015

I have more still.

The word of faith, our servant.
The spirit of faith is our servant or is subject to the sender.
Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

What is faith and how does it work.
Faith IS the substance of things hoped for, not, it will be the substance someday when I see it, but it is now, before I see it in the natural, as in already given or done. This truth is all through the bible. It's not done in the natural yet, but you are to believe that it is already given or done in the spirit, and then it will manifest in the natural. Just like the word of God became flesh and blood and dwelt among us. The word of God will manifest itself, but whether it be for your good or evil agaisnt you, will depend on what come out of your mouth. For both death and life are in the power of the tongue.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye [have already] receive[d] them, and [then] ye shall have them.
In other words, believe it is already given and/or done, and it will be in the natural. Notice in verse 24 you have to believe that you have already received the thing you asked for, BEFORE IT PRESENTS ITSELF IN THE NATURAL, and then you WILL have or get it after. The Greek words, shall have, does not say, maybe or if it be God's will. The definition of the word, shall have, means, it definitely will be or certainly shall come to pass. There is no question as to what God WILL do, or what His will is, if you know and believe what He said He will do it, just like it is written.
And by-the-way, if you look up the original Greek to find out what, "what things soever ye desire" means, you will find that it means, what soever things you desire. So if He said, what things soever you desire, then it means exactly that. It's not hard to see or understand when you just accept it as it is written.If that doesn't sit well with you because of your doubting hearts, then read Mt 7:7-12, to see that God will give good things (plural) to His children that ask Him. It is God's will to give His children good things, because He loves us.

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

To him that hath what? What is that which he hath? Two things. One, it would be the word or power of God, and two it would be the very thing he spoke, before it manifested in the natural? And after you have the thing in the spirit, then it shall be given to you. How can you have something that you don't have in the natural? How can you have something that you can't see, feel, hear, or experience, or something that hasn't manifested itself in the natural.... yet? God demands that you believe you have the thing you asked for, before He causes it to manifest. Like your salvation.
After praying the prayer of faith, faith says, "it is done, I have it now, I AM healed, because,... IT IS WRITTEN..." and you quote the word of God boldly!!! Faith stands on the word/promises of God, in spite of the circumstance that may be screaming in your face. Because it is the word of God that God watches over and hastens to perform, not yours or your prayers. If your words of faith are spoken because of your faith in God performing His promises to you as His child, then your words have the backing and power of the Holy Ghost to cause your words to come to pass or manifest.

We believe and therefore speak. I say again, as I have in other posts, that believing is like faith, without corresponding works, it's useless or dead. You did not believe only, into the new birth. You believed then spoke it out loud. Follow the order of the scriptures. You first believed in your heart, then you spoke what you believed God did for you. That is faith.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

When you hear something that is true, as in a fact, or some truth in God's word, what do you say? Well, most say, “Amen!” Right? What are you saying when you say that? 'So be it” or “IT IS SO”. That is what is meant when you say, amen. If it is so, then the promises in Christ are ALWAYS, YES AND IT IS SO, or amen. It not only means, so be it, but it is so, as well. Which is to say, it already is, or it is already done. In other words, when you say 'amen' to what someone said or did, then you are claiming it as a fact or truth.

So what the scripture is saying is that all the promises to the children of God are ALWAYS, YES and IT IS SO, as in, already so or already done, before you see it and it manifests in the natural. God says, when you use His word/promises, and believe what you have said is done, then you claim it as done by saying 'amen'. Naming it and claiming it as done. NICI and BIGI.

Like I have been saying, if you are born again, you have named it and claimed it, after you asked Jesus to be lord of your life. "I confess... Jesus come into my heart... thank you Jesus for coming into my heart and saving my soul... I am born again". You just told God what to do and what He has done. You just spoke it and then claimed it as done. The very thing most of you condemned, you had to do in order to receive ever lasting life. Did any of you feel the Spirit of God come into you when you asked for Jesus to come into your heart? Then why, to those of you who didn't feel anything, thank God for doing something you didn't feel? How do you know He actually did what He said He would do? You had to believe that God would do what He said in His word FIRST, BEFORE you thanked Him. Then because you believed it was already done, you CLAIMED your salvation when you said, "thank you lord for coming into my heart". Because you believed it was done, you made an open declaration or confession, proclaiming yourself to be born again. Again, you just named and claimed your salvation.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
What do you think, "the word of faith" means? The very same things you mockingly call, name it claim it and blab it grab it, is the exact same thing God calls, the word of faith. The truth you have come to hate, is the very thing that saved you.

Deu 30:14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
Deu 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Note, the above verses are not just talking about obeying God's voice and commandments, but also the words you speak that come from the heart will cause either life and good to come to pass or death and evil. It is the same words of faith Paul spoke of in Romans 10. Even as that which is written in Romans causes one to be born again, what you say from the heart will either bring good or evil to come to pass in your life. It's all about speaking Gods word and doing it, as God did when He created the worlds. He spoke first, then performed His word. As God's children, we are told to do the same. Only, we are told that what we say and do will either bring good or evil on our own heads.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Luk 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
Luk 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Notice that which one says from the heart causes that which was spoken to comes to pass or is what is brought forth. It is not what the person does so much as what they say. In other words, it is the word itself that was spoken that causes what you say to manifest, like that of God, when He spoke the worlds into existence. That is one of the laws of faith. It works in either the positive or negative, either for or against you, either a blessing or a curse. It is all done by what comes out of your mouth. Most of you do this unwittingly, not knowing that you are naming and claiming curses or bad things to come to pass in your life by your own words. Have you ever felt the symptoms of a cold or flu coming on you and then you say, 'I am catching a cold or coming down with a flu'? It might have only been symptoms, and not the real thing at the time, that the devil put on you to get you to believe that you were coming down with something, then when you spoke what you believed, because of what you started feeling in you body, you caused it to manifest. You just condemned yourself with the sickness by your own words. Just as Jesus said.

Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Mat 8:13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
Luk 7:7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
Luk 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Luk 7:9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
Luk 7:10 And they that were sent, returning to the house, found the servant whole that had been sick.

What was it about the centurion's faith that cause Jesus not only to marvel or be amazed and astonished, but to declare that He had not seen anyone else in all Israel with such great faith? What was it about the centurion's faith that made it not only greater than everyone else's, but that it was “so great”? What made it so great? Who and what was his faith in? It was in Jesus and His word. He saw Jesus as a commander sending His troops or as a master commanding His servant to do His command. The centurion saw the word of Jesus as the soldier/servant carrying out His commander's/master's orders/commands. And he knew that Jesus' word would not return to Him void, but accomplish that which He pleased, and prospered in the thing whereto He sent it.
We are to do as Jesus did, to be like Him, to mimic or copy His works, for He is our example to follow after.

Stephen63 · Nov 8, 2015

know1 said:

Gee, did you ever stop & think that a true believer would only desire what God does? Jesus is saying this to true believers..... those who would never desire the things of the flesh.

WOF folks believe they can claim anything from God, such as healings before God's timing & plans, miracles to people who won't serve Him, & things like saving sinners who have constantly rejected the grace of God, as if God will force that sinner's hand at their request. Imagine, such people who believe this doctrine playing God against God's own plans for man..... like He's gonna allow that.....riiiiight.

Jesus is our example that we should follow His steps. So what did He do? Only what He saw the Father do. Even in the garden, Jesus submitted to the Father by saying, "not my will, but thine be done."

If Jesus submitted to the Father's will, then we should submit to the will of Christ, & do as the Holy Spirit leads, & not as we want.

KJV1611 · Nov 9, 2015

know1 said:

Honestly I don't know how to deal with that, it's definitely something I want to look into. It can't mean that I can receive anything I desire because Paul asked God to remove the thorn from his flesh three times but God wouldn't do it because His grace was sufficient. Notice God didn't remove it because God's grace is sufficient, not because Paul didn't name and claim it.

Yet · Nov 9, 2015

The name it and claim it preachers that swim in wealth do something like this 'God's telling me that 100 people tonight are going to write a check for 1000.00. Hoolamushundi. Get your check book out now...do it fast....don't hesitate ...this is your moment...this is your appointed time...sheamusotie...kula eshenda. God's gonna cancel your debt, but you've got to write that check now in the next 2 minutes or this moment will be lost! Your disobedience will cost you. A calamity will befall you. Write that check and do it now!

Thats how THEY name it and claim it! And they get it because of suckers. 'One born every minute' said W.C. Fields! Does the term 'snake oil salesman' come to mind?

And Hagen? A third degree mason?

breno785au · Nov 9, 2015

Yet said:

Haha, sadly that's true...
I remember not long after I started walking with the Lord I was watching 'christian' TV at a friends house waiting for him to get ready. And some preacher came on and he was saying, I'll never forget it. "I feel the Holy Spirit tell me there are 10 1000 dollar offerings blah blah blah, if this is you, and you feel to give, and you do it, the Lord will bless you but if you dont, the Lord is gonna cut and divide, He will cut and divide! Oh my Lord I'm so excited!" Then it cut to a shot of his wife and she looked man, evil. I couldn't believe I just heard, so I turned it off. That'll never leave me lol

Budman · Nov 9, 2015

There is nothing wrong with asking God for something by faith. The difference between that, and the name-it-and-claim-it crowd, is they teach you can "speak" your will into existence, and God is obligated to do what you ask.

To anyone who believes they have the power to speak something true by faith, then go raise some of your loved ones from the dead. Speak the end to poverty and world hunger. Speak the cure for all disease.

What's the matter? Faith not strong enough?

It's all a scam by the same people who steal money from the gullible with their "seed-faith" nonsense. Give money to them, and God will give you more than you pledged in return.

Looks like the truly poor, who can't afford to give any money, are out of luck.

Undeniably overwhelming and resounding proof of the truth of WOF, NICI, and BIGI.

Senior Member

Senior Member

Gr8grace

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Gr8grace

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

shotgunner

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member